another valve adjustment question

Raby engine! NICE!!

The .006 lash will grow as the engine heats up but if .006 works for you, go with it. I've seen others run chromoly pushrods at something other than a loose zero and haven't had any problems. You should never have to worry about burning a valve due to a tight clearance but remember that the clearance grows as the engine heats up so you may be running closer to .020 (just guessing) at higher engine temperatures. I would recommend .003-.004 if you want to run a gapped steel rod but that's just me. If you had aluminum pushrods, the .006 would stay about the same when the engine heats up because the aluminum expands at the same rate as the engine whereas the steel doesn't.

I run a loose zero because it's easier to setup the clearance when I don't need to use feeler gauges. Call me lazy....

Jimmy

Jimmy nailed it.

any harm in 0.006"  not really, but there will be quite a bit more valve train chatter (louder).

i also run zero loose on my chomoly's

Is anyone out there running the ACN heavy duty dual tapered aluminum pushrods? http://vwparts.aircooled.net/A...ed-p/acndthdalpr.htm I'm curious to hear how they have performed and have thought about picking up a set to try but would like to hear how they worked for others first.

My setup runs a fuel injected, turbocharged 2276 with lots of boost on VW650 dual springs up to 7500rpm and I baby it around the neighborhoods but drive it like I stole it elsewhere so it does take a beating regularly.

cbperformance just came out with some aluminum pushrods, supposed to be better than any others on market. and some more to come shortly.

If you're running chromoly pushrods with a large gap like that, I hope you are running lash caps too otherwise you run the risk of mushrooming your valve tips. Plus your throwing away cam duration. Loose zero is better for durability and performance with chomoly pushrods.

Why would you not ask Jake Raby this question ?

56Speedster-

I've got a set of the John Connely's heavy-duty pushrods, never installed, somewhere out the garage. I'd sell 'em to you for .75 on the dollar.

Stan,

Are they the dual tapered rods or straight?

Jimmy

Out of Jake Raby's Aircooled Technology Engine Soecification Manual"

"Valve Clearances-ZERO LASH

Engine equipped with chromoly pushrods!!!!

Adjust all valves with no lash, but the pushrod MUST be able to be freely rotated while the cylinder is at Top Dead Center. This procedure is exacting to the conventional manner of valve adjusting on an aircooled engine, but the lash is zero instead of .006 inches"

This manual is specific to my individual engine and might not apply to your own engine. The information was for my engine  S?N-TIV-V2-0159 and may not apply to your engine. I was quite impressed with the manual and the information about build sheets, specs, etc. that I have never even heard of before my experience with Jake.  He is pretty amazing.

Roland told me the same about my engine as it has chromoly push rods.  TDC and set to loose zero so they spin freely.  

On a Raby engine, I can't imagine that "other top builders" would EVER recommend .006" valve lash if they truly know what Jake uses to build his engines and how they're put together.  You have Jake's valve set info and yet you choose to listen to someone else?

I agree with the post up above - stop listening to your "other top(?) builders" and get the info you need from Jake Raby and follow it before you manage to screw up your engine.

The biggest spec I have EVER seen on chromoly pushrods is 0.001 or 0.002". I am sure that 98% of the builders spec loose ZERO clearance on chromoly pushrods. Setting 0.006" when the builder specs otherwise is a fools errand. And if you have valvetrain problems I wouldn't try and ask Jake for help fixing them.

Not trying to give you a hard time, I hope you make out all right, good luck Doug!

Can't imagine having a Raby engine. Just like I'll never have a Rolex.

But...even more: I can't imagine having a Raby engine and then setting the tuning specs differently than he directs.

srsly?

Why would anyone ever do that? Ever?

I am new to this and i now know a little about Jake Raby and being knew to this I could have totally misunderstood Cary at Beck but I thought that is what he said.

I can not find the the paper work on the build sheet that specifies the motor or cost

I was told it was a Raby motor I have a nine sheet stapled together Engine Specification Manual from Raby Aircooled Technology Engine Specification Manual that lists the engine as a 1914cc  but not a whole lot more information other than the valve setting in red print. Once again maybe i misunderstood a communication but my understanding that the last owner for what ever reason was not setting the valve lash at zero I DO NOT want to harm the engine i am missing something here.

Ive talked to raby,seen his stuff, I know guys that swear by him.Ive seen his stuff work great and seen his stuff come back out & go back to him then the ensuing bs started flying, And motor sent back saying nothing was rong, well it had issues, and the manufacture of the parts in question(not the main manf but the oned with thier name on the product) herd about the issues on another fourm and steped up & said hey we had an issue with those parts were they our parts??Well the owner didnt know so the AFU parts were sent out to them and he sent back new parts, they were in fact thier parts That had the issues.And raby blamed the owner for the issues that were not there, (but realy were there.) He has since moved on to biger & better projects(and better $$$ in them too) he like berg isant the  god to vw's. Nor were they stupid. But for the most part you can go by his method or most any other for the parts you have in your vw engine. there is no majic, it's just s slightly over sized lawnmower engine for the most part.

 if you have the cam card for your motor if may say .006" or .004 or whatever.but aluminum pushrods set from .004" ~ .006" looser than chromoly or steel pushrods.

      And who built it has little to nothing to do with it.

    how you maintain it & listen to it does.

 And the owner with the raby motorwith the AFU stuff in it got it all back togeather him self, and is happyer than a pig in sand with the motor.( pigs seem to prefer nice clean sand over slopmud) Raby did not make the parts, but raby did build the motor, then say there is nothing rong with it, well he just didnt know what to look for as far as the defective parts were made rong.was that the only issue the motor had?? I dont have a clue I wasent there when it was re run or tore down if it was tore down. raby is usualy right up front whith his findings and tells it like it is.He just missed on this motor, why he started flayming this guy I dont know other than I think he was tired of the vw ****.(vw type 1,and the cheepassed owners, Witch I totaly can see and agree with.)

     I probably would of missed it too.Infact I had another motor hear with the same defective parts, and if there had not been an issue with them and the catastrophic carnage that ensued ,I might not of seen it either and  just changed them out .I now know what to look for with those parts.It pays to pay attn to everything you can, and remember it too.  As far as grammer, she is still dead in cali, but I think of her offten. No this isant a raby bash, I realy do respect him & his Co.

What the last owner did or didn't do is really not relevant to what you should do. If a magnet sticks to the push-rods, set them for loose-zero. Period. It doesn't matter if the last owner, the current shop, or anybody else wants to set them at .006, it doesn't make it right.

The engine gets wider as it heats up. Steel (or Cromoly steel) expand less than the surrounding engine. The gap will never be less than it is when the engine is stone cold, hence why you set them at loose-zero. At operating temperatures, that clearance will grow. Not so with Al pushrods, which get longer much faster than ferrous metals, so the gap stays constant or closes up as the engine heats up. The .006 is just insurance with spindly little AL pushrods, that your valves will close and seat with a hot engine. You need not worry about that with Cromoly.

Why would anybody use AL, then? Two reasons-- weight, and sound. They are lighter and quieter. The "lighter" makes life easier on the valve-train. The "quieter" makes live easier on your right seat occupant.

Life is full of trade-offs. Cro-mo is better by almost every metric, but AL has some advantages. If your car has chrolmoly push-rods, jet set them like they were made to be set.

you also loose  about 6 degeres of cam duration with the aluminum pushrods,  about 3 at each end. It drove me nuts trying to find where I lost 6 degrees, till I started thinken and did some testing.whooda thunkit.

 I'm guessing that's when the motor's cold, Mark? Great observation; if I checked a motor's cam timing with chromoly (set at "loose zero") and then aluminum (set at .006") pushrods, I'm sure that would have me scratching my head for a while...

I've heard of VW drag racers using valve lash to influence the powerband; if they found they were bogging at the starting line (and everything else was right), opening the valve lash was a way to give the motor a little more bottom end. Al 

no thats is both @ zero lash,checking real time cam/valve timing  with different ratios& ploting each.Remember cam timing is not the same as valve timing. I first noticed it using a adjustable pushrod, then used a std one and the results remained the same.

    there were some cams that were made as a multi duration cam, where you could safly change the lash to change the cam/powerband I dont know if any were made for these vw's, but a few thou shouldnt hurt ,but a better way would be tuning the chassie/clutch launch rpm for the track. also V8 engines like vw have different lash settings from usage of aluminum.aluminum heads you can subtract .006~.010", some even more depending on the app. I ran my drag roller cams on the street witch were supposed to be set @ .028"&removed about .014" .But when racing I would open them up to  about .024".

     you can also change the intake or exhaust ratio to alter the cam/valve timing& change the power band.

I had a shop do my first valve adjustment it will be me in the future.  I do have the steel pushrods and have them set at 0 lash. Thanks for the help on understanding what it needed.

 No questions are stupid ones ,no questions are silly ones, well thats not entirely true. The stupid question is the one not asked. That is the best & worst thinng about the WWW. You just have to try to weed through the bs&rong  and right info..

Well, Mark, your reference...''WWW'' went right over me.

I've carefully reread all of this threads posts without a clue, so the question is: What, or who, is WWW referring to?

WWW = the world wide web. This internet thing.

Anyone can post anything. Soon as they do, it'll get quoted by someone else as gospel truth.

 I would go with the .001   push rods snug  thats as lose as i would let it be   Your push rods should spin free when you pull the feeler gauge out at that setting   try it and see if they spin when the feeler is out  And check to see if they  still click to much then. If the have to much click  Then reset them too zero  Try and re try You should know what you have by the time you have set number one cylinder.

 I also have been buying extra ajuster studs and nuts  to replace anything that acts weard when Im setting mine  i had one break last year and drop a push rod  it just back off after breaking flush to the nut