Antique Tags....

When I went to register my car, I handed over a title from TN that said the car was a 1958 Porsche Speedster. The first owner in SC did something right as its not easy to do in SC from what I understand. Anyway, so I am there to register my car and the lady asks me if I want antique tags, she goes on to say that its 10 dollars to register the car every year instead of 20, and you are exempt from both safety inspections and from emissions testing. Well thats quite a savings and I am eligible with a title that says 1958 so I do it...

Now I am feeling a little guilty..well more like silly. I am not trying to fool anyone into thinking the IM is something its not, but at the time I only thought about the savings in time and money the tag allows.

Thoughts...(positive or negative).

James

hell with them!!! keep the money!!

Ours is registered "permanent". After I brought in my antique tags, I paid a one time fee and I NEVER register the car again.

Feel guilty? Don't. You drive this car much less than the average hondayota commuter. Your car is light and does very little damage to roads compared to a gigantasaurus SUV pulling a boat trailer. This is a fair price.

If you still guilty, take the difference and buy a service man/woman their lunch/dinner the next time you see them in a restaurant.

angela

Think Steve Miller.
"Here's a little story about Billy-Joe and Bobbi-Sue ..."
Just don't tell that story to the detective down in Texas.

And Angela's a known scofflaw. Pay close attention to her ability to scam the system.
Incidentally, my VIN is 126956.

Don't do it in California, it's against the law to knowingly register your car as something it's not. In other words, if it's a Vintage, CMC, Beck etc and you register it as a 195- Porsche, it's a felony.

The replica Cobra guys have been hit hard and from the information I've heard, the Attorney General is starting to crack down on other replica's.

my opinion is that you do not have an antique, it should not be registered as such, in california, antigue plates is restricted even more than collector cars, thats why it's cheaper.....
I find it hard to believe that 10.00 savings is what drew you in..
You also do not have a Porsche. but thats another story....

Hey, Vince and Larry -- don't panic on my "show" VIN the data plate carries. The numbers will always come back to me when I'm ready to take the car in to the DMV.
The VW numbers I riveted inside the driver's doorjamb on my mutt project are still the ones I use legally, and you'll never, EVER see me trying to pull a fast one at a vintage or Concours event.
Ain't nobody gonna laugh at me or lock me up when I roll out the next amazing act, though. My metal body will have gull-wing doors AND hatched ends. I'm gonna drop that bee-otch right on top of the existing mutt chassis before I make a move to change my registration.

"All I want for Christmas is a new plasma cutter ... A new plasma cutter ... A new plasma cutter ... ."
Has a ring to it, eh?

Back to James' original question; I'm told that the really important reason for the VIN and registration to be correctly sorted is, in part, because accident investigators on fatal crashes go back to the manufacturer looking for known defects. If that's true, then I'd assume a kit or replica on a VW or tube chassis that ISN'T a Porsche shouldn't carry anything other than the maker's mark with the VIN assigned to the donor car or built chassis.
If I was the investigating official and I called Porsche to ask why someone was dead in a fiberglass car with their marquee in the hot seat, I'd get really confused very quickly.
Maybe that's why Cali considers that to be a felony?
Anybody know if that's good information?

First off, let me make this clear, its NOT illegal here in NC, or VA, or SC to register the car as the year it represents. Not sure what the original owner did to get it that way, but its definately not illegal. Because of that, I am allowed to get antique plates, which I did... not for 10 dollars, but because it saves on all kinds of charges that I pay through the teeth for on all my other cars every year. My motivation was not to fool anyone into thinking I had an old porsche, although they seem to think that even with the current normal tag I have... but thats another topic.

California is somewhere I would love to live, and if I ever get the million dollars together to buy a 2 bedroom starter home, I will move there... and when I do, you can bet I wont bring the IM with me... WAY too much hassle for you guys when it comes to these cars. I listened to countless horror stories of guys in CA with their cobra replica's and not being able to drive them because of it... lots of benefits to living there, but registering replica cars easily is not one of them.

Anyway, I agree, and never had the intentions of telling a single soul that its a real old porsche, but if the powers that be offer me a legal way to simply save money I will absolutely take that tag. Hey.. thanks.. .the guilt is gone.

Cory, if thats true, then almost all of the accidents involving these cars would be truely confusing as the investigator would not find a 1960's VW either.

James

Right on, James. Welcome to the club, by the way.
The registration debate and classic, antique or collector plate issues here are really well explored. I think a 1960 Bug would have rated antique plates anyway, wouldn't it?
And did they give you an annual mileage restriction or inspection with that?
Heh, heh. Ask about insurance, next. I'm curious though -- that investigator question is gonna stick out in my mind for a while. I was talking to someone about it over the weekend in Pennsylvania, but I can't remember who.

Cory, thanks for the welcome!!! I have read a lot about your car and the adventures you share with it...awesome car guy stuff.

Anyway, I have insurance through Midwest Classic Car Insurance Company, but its actually brokered to Infinity. I have a 5K miles a year restriction (lucky to drive it 2K a year, but Carlisle 2008 will change that), but no inspection required. If I get dinged 2 years from now and I have 10,001 miles I am on my own. I have documented with the insurance company that is is a 2003 Intermeccanica Speedster, but they insured it under collector car insurance as a 1958 Porsche Speedster as that is what the title reflects...again, totally and completely legal. I pay 230 dollars a year for 40K of collision coverage and all the other liability stuff, which is amazing since the car is worth way more than my wifes Honda minivan and is 1/3 of the cost to insure. These guys do a lot of Cobra replica insurance as well.. I had my superformance with them and they were great to work with as they know the replica market.

Anyway, I will look up the collector tag stuff on here and see what I can find. The more I think about it, its just another component on a replica to make it appear more realistic... just like the porsche horn badge or steering wheel or tool kit that many put on their speedsters. Maybe it will stop some people asking if its a kit car... lol.

James

Also, the collector tag thing will vary from state to state. Whereas Oregon is very "replica friendly" if you know the rules you can get your car registered by the year it appears to be (I think AZ is the same) other states are more challenging.

Couple of my spyder buddies in AZ have the vintage plates on their cars. Our plate is vintage (oregon). It really adds a nice touch.

Also, don't listen to Cory - I am the most law abiding citizen you will ever meet. :-)

angela

My Beck is titled in Oregon as a 1957 Porsche. The title is branded "Replica." I was told I could buy antique plates, but they are supposedly limited to show/event use only. I don't know how they would enforce that.

"My metal body will have gull-wing doors AND hatched ends. I'm gonna drop that bee-otch right on top of the existing mutt chassis before I make a move to change my registration."

DO TELL . . . . ! ! ! ! ! ! You KNOW that the longer you keep it a secret, the more mistakes you gonna make without our help! Need I remind you of your current illegal hoop and cage arrangement? THEN there's that horrible orange powdercoat that prohibits you from any decent color choice other than silver and interior choice other than black and aluminum. And weren't you planning on some insane idea of lead loading your frame rails at one point? Something about establishing a 50/50 weight ratio . . . ? ? ? ! ! !

The sooner you let us all in on it, the sooner we can start helping and the fewer f#ck-ups you'll need to correct later on.

Remember, without Sartwell(SP) , we're ALL you have left . . . .

I also have the same tags Angela does. In Oregon it's not necessary to shade the legal areas of registration. They are 'replica friendly'. The tags technically, however, are for shows, tours, gatherings, etc, but do allow for service trips. If mine was an every-day driver Rich's route would be more prudent. The biggest benefit to ours though is that it is a one-time fee and no DEQ . . . ever!

I have been in contact with the CA DMV, or should I say they were in touch with me and I am legally registered (now) I can drive my speedster as much as I want, when I want, where I want. Now that is Replica Friendly!

" ... we're ALL you have left . . . . "
TC, you know I won't so much as go buy a Hawaiian shirt from Goodwill without calling you for practical tactical!
Still funny, after all these years ...

You finish mashing up a Gheedster yet?

James -

I bet you thought you were asking a relatively innocuous question! BWAAHAAA HAAA HAAAA!! Remember, this site is frequented by experts on air-cooled technology, aerodynamics, political science, global warming, organ transplant, DMV legislation, photography, social-economic dynamics of immigration, grammar, world trade economics, you name it! And most of these topics are typically covered in a SINGLE THREAD!

Did I already say "Welcome to the Madness"?

The speedometer on my '95 Vintage shows I've logged 82,500 kilometers, so far. I've enjoyed EVERY kilometer/mile of that as well as my daily dose of SOC website entertainment. Here's wishing you the same!

Now get out there and DRIVE that bad boy!!

P.S. - Cory is my brutha from anutha mutha, and Angela my red-headed step-sister. And we're ALL one-step ahead of the law (of common-sense)! Bwaaaa Haaaa Haaaa Haaaa!!!

Thanks for the welcome...I have madness in every other aspect of my life, so why not here as well.

LOL.. I did think it was pretty innocent, but every automobile specialty site is the same.. same folks with different names... everyone of them has experts on everything and they are perfectly willing to give you their opinions without even asking for them... so, I am not surprised when I see diverse responses which are slightly outside the envelope of the originating question.

That being said, NC VA and SC (as thats all I know about here) are extremely registration friendly when it comes to someone with an out of state title which states a year that the car represents rather than really is. NC will give you a really hard time (ask Mark Lowe) when registering a replica for the first time, but if another state has deemed its a certain year legally (which was done on mine) then they have no problem extending the same courtesy. I am also not a dolt and didn't want to test the knowledge of the young lady on the other side of the desk, so when she didn't ask any questions, I did not offer any information that was not requested...something I have learned in the immigration process which I am about to finish up with (Canadian citizen).

So it appears that opinions are a mixed bag when it comes to collector or antique tags and if we should use them. I expected as much, but it doesn't change my decision. I think I will stick with the antique tag I have, and should my title confuse the investigator while they are picking my remains out of the wreck, I will be watching from above and giggling in rememberence of this thread.

James (in sunny replica friendly NC)

James, you started this thread and asked for,
Thoughts...(positive or negative). so thats what you got.....
If you don't like the answer, don't ask the question.......

I guess "negative thoughts" could technically include casting doubt on his motives, implying that the antique plates were bought to trick people and not to save time and money.

I would personally register my Speedster (I mean Fiberglass in shape of Porsche Speedster bolted to cut down VW floorpan, don't want to fool anyone) as an alien spaceship if it meant less inspections and fees.

An additional bonus would be if the plate had a year on it, like the year the tub is supposed to represent (oh the treachery) so people wouldn't scream "what year is it" at me. I don't really feel like explaining the entire kit car concept to every divorced father of three in a lifted F-150 and his 25-year-old girlfriend in Temecula.

Is it Friday yet?

I am all for getting away with whatever you want to, just be prepared to suffer the consequences if you get caught....My speedy was registered as a 1963 VW because thats what the pan was and that is how Calif works, but "Antique" plates is another matter....
We do not drive "Antiques", well, actually I guess I do now with the Ghia, but our speedsters are far from that for sure. The Antique plates in my opinion should be for real Antiques, not just because you can get away with it.....Are you a car guy, or a poser.....

Ouch... well this got ugly in a hurry. I did ask the question and had no problem with your reply, and as I read back I don't see anywhere where I said I did. As for car guy or poser... come on man...is it really your opinion that putting an antique tag on a car made up entirely of new parts that pose as old parts suddenly makes the driver a poser?

I also don't understand your suggestion that I might get caught.. I did absolutely nothing outside of the laws that govern my state...not California, so if I get pulled over I have all the paperwork to walk away with nothing more than a ticket for speeding.

Wow, didn't take long to get into one of the touchy area conversations did it? Do I get a badge? LOL

James

"Do I get a badge?"

Now the Corpse Badge . . . . that's a whole nuther can o' worms

No harm no foul at all, I am sure I will get to know the different personalities within this sphere of speedsterdom ya'll have created. I have very thick skin.

James

James, the Catholic Church has a bishop whose job it is to be 180 degrees out from the considered Papal opinion. He's known as the Devil's Advocate; they bounce policy and Papal Decrees (or whatever the hell they call those things that outlaw Templars and such) off of his say in important matters.
Vince does that for us. Nothing he says is aimed at any one person; he test-drives things conceptually, and highlights traps and pitfalls. Note the horns on his smiley-head guy.
He's been a Concours judge at a number of events, and is sort of the West Coast TC. If there's a way to accomplish something without shooting off your own foot, he'll know and usually help navigate you in that direction. Remember, there are 48 other states apart from California and North Carolina, and hundreds of people who read these threads. A blanket statement about something being illegal might cause the one or two people in Montana to ask a crucial question at the DMV there. Vince is nearly always well-intended -- and if not ... well, let's just say he's been known to pole-dance at SOC-related events.
Presently, he's determining for the rest of us whether a "low-light" Ghia is a worthwhile trade-off for a well-sorted Speedster.
He's a funny guy, but it might take you a while to dial in the coordinates to where he's coming from.
(Nuthin' but love, Vince. Happy Memorial Day, Bro.)

BTW: You will never, ever see one of these off of someone's car. We will them to each other like Broncos season ticketholders do ...

James, Cory was being politically correct...I am a trouble maker.
Thanks Cory, for the "kinder than deserved" words....
I haven't been living up to my horns lately, so....I"M BACK.

My comment about legality was general, not directed at you James, and/or the registration issue

I used to be a purist when it came to automobiles, including my 25 years as a judge, but I have softened up like the pillsbury doughboy over the years, to include ownership of a great little Vintage Speedster. I must say it was by far my favorite car, and I've had many. I do however have an issue when some of the guys try to blend with the Porsche crowd (who, by the way don't really like replica owners, but tolerate us also to be politically correct,besides most of the 911 folk are less than I would want to associate myself with anyway.)
Or in this instance mask their ownership to be something its NOT,
as in "Antique" Tags. Your car is not a frigging Antique, I guess that means something to me when I see it on a car, call me strange..
I am not expecting you to change anything just because of my view, but once again you are the one who started it, I'm just responding to your request of comment....

I guess I can see the point, I mean a license plate is like a legal document or something. If it said something about your car that wasn't true, that would be like, bad.

Didn't mean to stir the pot, just add my two cents (to mix a metaphor).

And maybe get a laugh?

My new NON-POSER plate:

WOW
VINCE
WHAT A FNNNNNNNN BITCH U ARE :)

Well I am editing this cause I was making a joke that could have been taken as something other than that, and based on the fact that I am extremly new here I don't want to be kicking cans in the house you guys built.

Some day I will most likely need all of your guys and gals help for something and I dont want to step on any toes that might be attached to the a$$ I may have to kiss later on down the road.

Have a great holiday weekend everyone.

James

Badges....we dont need no stinkin badges.

And who really cares how the car is registered. Get in, drive it, and enjoy. Then Repeat as necessary.

Welcome to the SOC, James. Don't worry about Vince.
He likes to make smart remarks. Oh, and he's usually right.
All of us replica owners, driving around with Porsche badges on our cars are posers. Deny it all you like, but, there it is...

OK, I guess I have to set everyone straight on the whole "poser / antique / registration" thing again. Here's the deal - we all drive (Vince now excluded / someday to return) cars that "look" like an old Porsche. So, no matter what emblems you have, who made the car, what you call it, what year it's registered as, etc... you're "posing"
If you have a car built on an antique VW frame, OK, technically you have an antique I guess. But make no mistake, you do not have a Porsche 356 Speedster, end of story. We all drive a car that looks like one but it ain't. If you want to call it an Intermeccanica Speedster go ahead, you're still posing because it was made to look like a car that was already designed by a different company long before the company that made your car existed ergo you're copying, or pretending, or posing, get it?
As already stated - drive it and enjoy it! The one thing we all have in common - we all love the lines and timeless beauty of the 356.

I thought you had that thrombosis thing licked, Mickey.
How's the old forehead vein doing these days?
:

Never being able to leave a scab alone, I think I'll give picking it another try....

Yep, we all drive cars that look (to one degree or another) like "A" bodied Porsche speedsters-- so in a way I suppose you could call it posing. But I've never tried to convince anybody that it's anything other than what it is, and I think that this is what the law, purists, and most of us (deep down.... maybe VERY deep down) all have a hard time with.

I know Micky and I disagree on this, but I keep thinking that maybe it's because I haven't stated my case clearly enough.

For me (and for the law in Illinois), the problem isn't in driving a "fake"... it's in representing the car as something it isn't. I don't have Porsche badges on my car, because it isn't a Porsche-- some guys do, and that's OK with me as long as you don't mind engaging in in a 10 minute "explanation" to the afore mentioned divorced father of three and his 25 y/o girlfriend. I decided to forgo the pain, and just say "it's an Intermeccanica".

My car isn't titled as a Porsche 356, because it isn't a Porsche 356. All the Vintage, JPS, and Thunder Ranch guys have been told they can register their cars as VWs by the VIN on the pan, and 99% of them do. The problem is that (in most states) a cursory reading of the vehicle codes says this is wrong. LOTS of states have provisions for registering a replica as a replica, in the year it was meant to replicate. This is legal, and it's why I don't feel a bit of guilt about running antique tags-- the state knows what the car is, I've followed the letter and spirit of the law (even when I had to explain it to the lady at the DMV counter), and I'm eligible to save $78/yr on registration.

I don't want to fight a holy war over this. But the issue for me is fraud (and that's what misrepresenting a vehicle is)-- it's a really serious offense in most places, and one that will get you in a heap of trouble with "the man". My advice is: go to your state's DMV website, and read-up on replica and special construction titles. This hobby is littered with "folklore and common knowledge" about titles and registration. Most guys see know evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil when it comes to this issue. Wishing something was legal isn't the same thing as being legal.

If you do it the right way, you'll never regret it-- and you can lose that feeling in the pit of your stomach that you can only tell the cop, or passerby, or DMV half of the story.

Mickey....I agree with you 100% on your last post!!!! We have copied an original car and made one to look like the real thing so to me that is definately posing... it doesn't matter, just have fun driving the little car!!!~Esther

I agree along with Darren. Drive it and enjoy it. Posing is such an undesirable word in my book. I feel you're only "posing" if you are TRYING, or your intent is, to fool someone into believing it is a real Porsche and I don't think many people here intend to do that.We all know what we got. I/We just want to drive a COOL little car, folks. If you drive down the street and someone(who doesn't know any better) thinks they saw a real car, so be it. All they know is that they just saw a timeless and rarely seen design ride by and were happy to see it. In my case, a flared outlaw isn't gonna fool anyone with some sense of the real thing, so I don't worry about it. If someone asks about it I tell'em how it is and I don't mind doing it. And when I tell'em they can get into one for the price of a nice newer Harley their eyes REALLY light up!

James - ...what did I tell ya?!BWAAA HAAAA HAAAA HAAAAAAAAA!!

Stan,
I

I love this site.....thank you James for this thread, I was getting a little bored.....
We are all car guys (and Gals) and that is the important thing, real or memorex. We just chose to own a car that replicates one of the best designs in the car industry....A true classic, (at least in my mind)and as we have all discovered owning a replica is actually better than the real thing for many reasons (other than the dollars the real one's command)...
The only problem I ever had during my ownership, was when I saw the dissapointment on someone's face when they learned it was not real,
and that took away some of the enjoyment of looking at it in the same light, you either understand or you don't...no more said...
I was just busting a few balls and reminding some of you why my smiley face has horns.....
Thanks to everyone who posted....especially you John L.