Any Idea What Build This Might Be?

Some nice details, but high asking price for a car with stock (1600) engine and stock (4.12) transaxle. ('Performance 1600' and 'high-geared 4.12' are both oxymorons.)

What worries me most is them trying to pass this off as a 'new' 100-mile car. It looks newly freshened cosmetically, but there are a number of tells that the car has a lot more than 100 miles. There's nothing really wrong with a freshened, older car, but if they're not being honest about that, what else aren't they talking about?

I guess it could be those 100 miles were logged on the Paris-Dakar rally.

It’s an interesting car, and looks really cool (IMHO). Not what they’re asking cool, but it has some neat features.

What bugs me are the 49 pictures of the alternator and matching helmet, none of the racing turtle tonneau or the soft-top. Precious few of the bodywork and interior. Lots of arty garbage and some random whatnot.

Troy needs to give internet sellers a tutorial on how to sell a car online. His ads always have the information people want, with the pictures and video to light the fire to buy. 

 It’s not just Internet sellers of speedsters it happens in most used car sales,  the seller is selling us a dream of a car at least it’s a dream in his mind and he’s been tolerating a lot of deficiencies and he’s aware of the most times but doesn’t divulge them so you go see the car and you say to him I thought there was no rust ... He proceeds to tell you that’s just a little rust but the whole belly pan is rusted or there’s an inch of Bondo all over the bottom of the karmann Ghia

  He just wasted two hours or more of your time and you feel like charging him for your time .

Once faced with the cold hard facts of how much it cost to fix those parts that need fixing on the car he gets offended so you just MoveOn and watch the ad in case he comes to his senses and lowers the price or another guy With a name like Tucker shows up whose name Should start with an S

And the beat goes on ....

While it is a nice looking car, yeah, the statement "everything is brand new" is a little misleading. For starters- the underside of the engine case is a little oily to be 100 miles brand new (or even freshly rebuilt). It's probably had a (somewhat) major refresh- paint, a major clean, new carpet and tires? Overpriced by about $10,000 or so, and subtract 5-10 points off the hp claim as well. I'm sure it's a fun car to drive, though. Al

The car Vintage announced is a much nicer car... if your in the market

The silver car Greg just put up for sale is very nicely finished. I was looking at it before he posted it. Greg took me for a test drive. It is plenty powerful. I decided to have Greg build me a "special order" which is now in process.

jprpdr

Westchester, CA

In response to the OP's question, I am not sure of the manufacturer.  It definitely does not appear to be a CMC/Fiberfab body.  Too many differences such as the flat angle of the gas tank, the seal area around the front trunk, no inner panel under the front hood and the car seems to be a little different shape in the rear area.  It also does not appear to be one of the major manufacturer's.  Could this be one of the cars being built in Mexico?

I shouldn't be too critical because I may be trying to sell mine one day and would not want the criticism.  However, the pictures of the engine and undercarriage do not reconcile with the comment in the ad of "Brand new".  When I build brand new the underside is as shiny as the top side!    I hope the sale goes well because as the prices go up it helps the value of mine get closer to what I actually have in it!  

Thank you all very much for your input.  It would be great to know the manufacturer of this car to try to value it.  I, too, don't think it is worth near the ask price.

I also agree that the Silver VS just listed is a significantly nicer car, which brings up a point - if one can order a "brand new" VS  (like the silver one advertised) from the manufacturer in Hawaiian Gardens, built exactly to your personal spec for around $35K, how can the value of any 2, 5, or 10 year old replica be worth anywhere near that number?  That's kind of the benchmark I've been using - please tear that theory apart, because maybe I'm missing something?  (Excepting maybe an IM or Beck).

Some of the used ones advertised are not even as nice as a new VS at a base price of $33,900 that offers a lot of standard features including the bigger engine?  Nonetheless, they are asking in the $30s?  Very confusing for me...

Thank you again for all your comments, please keep them coming!

@Brent - Maybe some asking prices are based on the amount of money spent on the cars, and not the amount a buyer is willing to pay?  By the time I am finished, I am fairly sure that it will have cost me more to build it myself than it would to have it built by an experienced builder.

New gauges with 115 miles on the ODO. 

Brent posted:

... if one can order a "brand new" VS  (like the silver one advertised) from the manufacturer in Hawaiian Gardens, built exactly to your personal spec for around $35K, how can the value of any 2, 5, or 10 year old replica be worth anywhere near that number?

Because people have the patience of a gnat. If they have to wait 3 months, it's the end of the world.

FWIW, the usual value metrics we use in ever other endeavor are useless when it comes to these cars. The heart wants what the heart wants-- the sooner you give into that, the better off you end up being.

It appears that many "used" Speedsters for sale are fairly low mileage and lightly used. This is not an item like a "regular" new car where the value drops dramatically the minute it leaves the showroom floor. Low supply and high demand keeps values up.

jprpdr

Westchester, CA

Thanks again for the info.  Any more guesses what replica manufacturer built this car?

My guess, as I mentioned above, would be the builder from Mexico.  Isn't that where @TJ Ward got his car?  Maybe he can compare the features in my previous post to his car?

James

Thank you for that.  I'm not familiar with the Mexican builder.  Is there somewhere I can look for more info?  Thanks again!

It does look like a Customs Fiberglass Speedster from the interior pieces. Rafael said it is. 

Another clue is the tires - Euskadi.

Euska-wha?

I'd never heard of these and did a little research. Euskadi is a Mexican tire company whose products seem to be better known in Mexico than elsewhere. You can get some of their tires at places like Walmart and on Amazon, but I couldn't find any source for Euskadi tires in the size that are on this car (175/65R15) - indicating they were probably sourced locally where this latest rebuild was done.

I think the reason you're not seeing many guesses here about the car's origins is that it doesn't seem to follow the trim patterns of any major replica builder.

There are some very nice touches - the paint, new genuine VDO gauges, the hard tonneau, rubber gaskets under the horn grills that a lot of builders don't bother with, etc, etc. (Although the spiffy tonneau seems to sidestep the fact that the car has no actual convertible top.)

But then there's the big disconnect between what looks like a freshly done 'outside', and an undercarriage that shows signs it's been on the road for many years.

Usually, someone building a car for their own use who went to the trouble and expense of doing all of those cosmetic upgrades would have started by refreshing or replacing the drive train.

It's usually only dealers looking to maximize profit or outright car 'flippers' who put all of their efforts into how a car shows or photographs, ignoring the out-of-sight mechanical bits that should be much more important to someone who wants to drive the car.

Again, this may be a solid car, but it's very hard to tell without seeing and driving it or having a seasoned VW mechanic check it out.

In any case, it's still not worth the asking price.

That's great information, thank you very much!

There's been many comments about "not worth the asking price" - I agree, a new VS can be ordered similarly equipped as this one for about $35K - much more reputable, and comfortable with VS.  However, if this is a build from Mexico and the mechanicals check out - not new - but good, what is the consensus on value?

Thanks again for all the great input!

I sell them as kits. Complete body ready to mount and paint with hinges, pull cord and prop rods. Complete  Interior, glass, frame and complete top with cover and side curtains for 11k. I would say mine is $25k with the new 1915cc motor I just installed. Still working on the website. https://customsfiberglass.wixsite.com/website

Thank you so much for the info.  I'll look at your website soon.  

Forgive me, then, are you the builder in Mexico that others have referred to?  Sorry, still a bit new to the game.

No but I work with him as a distributor. 

Thank you.  Is the one I am asking about one that you sold or was built by your manufacturer?

TJ, do you have anything in stock, ready to deliver? Thanks

Not one of my buyers. It could have been built by him in Mexico or by the builder.  He only want to sell kits. We do have one coupe ready to ship to tx. 

TJ, Thanks for the quick reply and for the info.  I think that establishes the price point for the car in question if yours sell new for $25K.  Very helpful, thank you. I’m in the market until I find something, please let me know if you get a Speedster in stock.  Thanks again!

With everyone’s help I think the mystery builder has been solved  I sincerely appreciate the input by all.  

(By the way, I’m sure everyone - myself included - would like to see the photos of the coupe you have in stock TJ - please post!)

here's the coupe. I'll have a walk around and rolling the windows up and down video soon. We can start a speedster anytime let me know when you're ready. 

Thank you, great pics!

I'm not sure if the original question was answered, but that car does appear to be from Mexico.  Here is a Facebook screen capture of a very similar car from their site. 

That's a different car. 

You're right, my mistake.  I was looking at the tonneau on my phone.  I can see that the car on Facebook in my picture has a fuel cap on the hood and several other differences.  I still suspect that the other car is from Rafael Albiter, am I wrong?

I'm 90% sure it is.  Not sure who else makes the tonneau cover. Pretty sure he the only one making them. 

Thank you all for the diligence and information.  The seller is stuck near his ask, so I think this one will be a pass.

Where do the ENVEMO cars stand in the pecking order of IM, VS, etc?

Brent posted:

Thank you all for the diligence and information.  The seller is stuck near his ask, so I think this one will be a pass.

Where do the ENVEMO cars stand in the pecking order of IM, VS, etc?

Unobtanium. There were very few made and rarely come up for sale.

Porsche even allowed Envemos to be sold through Porsche dealerships in the 80's.  Pretty good testament to their accuracy.