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It took a few hours this morning, but we got the exhaust to have a little clearance by heating the heater boxes on the front side of the engine and bending them down a little.  We also had to fabricate a thicker spacer for the drivers side to level everything out because the engine on my build isn't level.   It is only about about 3/8 inch clearance on each side, but its no longer touching and looks completely level.   Wasn't cheap, but the exhaust does sound great.

New problem...  after I drive it home with no issue (10 min drive) and then go to fill up with gas later this afternoon, on the way back I get this loud clanking sound in the engine.  I thought maybe it was the exhaust had broken loose or something and was banging against the engine.  Pulled over and checked everything underneath and on top of the engine and nothing was loose or looked out of place.  Started up again and it was idling funky and as soon as I started driving it was clanking again and the engine cut out.  Luckily I was only about 1/4 mile from my house so got it to a point where I could drift it home in my neighborhood and the boys and I pushed it up the driveway and into the garage.   I really don't see how this could at all be exhaust related, but it wasn't good.  Guessing my plans to take it to the beach on Saturday are off now unless I can figure out squarely what this is and feel good about driving it far, but unlikely.

This madness can really be exhausting...

Last edited by MarylandGuy

Dan P helped me with something here; if you’re using a distributor with an electronic module such as Pertronix instead of points make sure the screw holding the module inside the distributor body hasn’t come lose. Just a single little screw can make tour life miserable. If it’s loose set the gap as per the module instructions and tighten the hell out of it or use a little blue or green Loctite.

@MarylandGuy posted:

I agree with @James that my main issue is having heater boxes since they are mounted to the back of the engine and have zero flex.

This morning I did some driving around my town because not all of these places have websites or show up on google.  I was able to eventually find a place on a backroad only about 10 minutes away who has a whole car fabrication shop where they specialize in japanese imports and racing modifications (fast and the furious).   I talked to a younger guy named Justin and he is going to free up a lift for me tomorrow morning so we can take a look and do a little heating and bending to get it in place.   He showed me his project car where he is custom fabricating a drag car from the ground up using parts of an RX7 body, Honda engine, miata suspension and full custom tubular frame and roll cage that he built himself.   I think I'm in good hands, but told him not to expect me to race him in my speedster when he is done his project.

I'm hoping this will be the end of my drawn out saga and loss of prime driving weather.

Every one that owns a PCC needs “a guy.”  Sounds like you found yours.

Fwiw, my “guy” is building a tube frame turbo V8 240Z. I asked him what he wanted to do with it when he was finished with it and he said “live.”  

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As I'm looking at the position of the distributor shaft when I pulled it out compared to the 2 notches on the top of the gear, they don't line up, which makes me think it came un-seated somehow.  Maybe he distributor came lose and lifted up slightly causing it to come unseated.   Does this sound familiar with anyone?

Either way, now I get to learn how to fully install a distributor and set my timing, which was inevitable I guess.  I'm learning too damn much in 700 miles, but better off for it and this was the reason for me getting one of these cars to learn my way around it.

@MarylandGuy posted:

I pulled the distributor out and didn't notice anything, but still learning and figuring out as I go.   Here are some pictures.

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Two rules for pulling the distributor:

1. Put engine at TDC and make sure you're on #1 cylinder. Pull the cap and the rotor should be pointing to the hash mark AND the #1 plug wire in the cap. It's REALLY easy for you Speedster guys, the crank bolt and pulley are basically in your face!

2. DO NOT loosen distributor clamp. Only remove 13mm nut holding clamp to the case. The whole shebang pulls straight up and out. This way the timing stays set, or at the very least within a couple degrees of where it was. Do not turn the engine over while the distributor is out.

It appears you have points, so points eliminator module is not the issue. Do the points open/close "As The Distributor Turns" (a new soap opera)?

Sounds like a rocker/pushrod issue. Pop the valve covers and check out the valvetrain.

Last edited by DannyP

Set of metric wrenches and sockets. I think 10 mm is all you need, but 12 & 13 might be handy to have. A good sized screwdriver to get the bail off your valve cover if so equipped, and a small flat blade for the rocker arm adjusters.

When you look in there you'll see something like

Sometimes a pushrod pops out, usually after a mistaken valve lash adjustment. And every so often a rocker shaft backs out wholesale & needs to be cinched back down.

It's never a bad idea to check the head nuts too while you're in there. Just in case.

If swivel-ball-foot rocker adjusters are used, it is REALLY easy to bodge the valve adjustment. You'll end up with the ball on the valve, rather than the flat. This can make the valve loose enough to have a pushrod pop off.

If an adjuster locknut loosens, the adjuster can easily back off and cause this.

I'm really hoping this is your noise. Other loud noises are a lot more expensive than the pushrods and rockers.

Berg, Scat, and Pauter rockers use standard threads, and use either 1/2" or 9/16" wrenches. Most VW style rockers use a 13mm though.

Last edited by DannyP

You should be able to tell if you have a broken rocker as soon as you take you valve covers off. You will need a feeler gauge ,screw driver and a wrench. You will be able too find top dead center while you have them off just in case you didn’t get your distributor in the right spot

@MarylandGuy posted:

...great, now I also need to become an expert on rockers and pushrods.

Yes indeed. FWIW, @MarylandGuy If I were you I’d pop your valve covers off and see if something is laying in there, like the broken valve adjuster in Danny’s engine build thread. If not, I’d take a time out, order a good book, and read up on where you’re at.

IMO, you’re getting advice that assumes a lot of automotive experience that I’m not sure you possess. No offense, honestly. I just don’t want you to get in over your head, get frustrated, and give up. Or get to a point where it’s going to be more expensive for a mechanic to figure out where you are and work his way back.

Once you get a good background of what you’re attempting, asking questions here and getting the excellent answers from the experts will be a lot easier.

I think Tom Wilson’s book is good:

How to Rebuild Your Volkswagen air-Cooled Engine ... https://www.amazon.com/dp/0895...oding=UTF8&psc=1

As is John Muir’s although it covers a lot of Bug-centric topics, it also covers stuff applicable to our cars like electrics, brakes, suspension  

How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive: A Manual of St... https://www.amazon.com/dp/1566...oding=UTF8&psc=1



Then there’s the old standby, the Bentley manual.

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@dlearl476 posted:

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...IMO, you’re getting advice that assumes a lot of automotive experience that I’m not sure you possess. No offense, honestly. I just don’t want you to get in over your head, get frustrated, and give up. Or get to a point where it’s going to be more expensive for a mechanic to figure out where you are and work his way back...



These are wise words.

This is not a difficult procedure if you've done it a few times, as have the veterans who are advising you above.

But it's not quite that straightforward the first time, if you're on your own.

Ed's photo above is of a pristine head on an engine that has probably not yet been filled with oil and run. And the engine appears to be on a bench, not mounted in a car.

If you don't have a lift in your garage, you will be lying on your back, with the valve cover a few inches from your nose, and there will be a small flood of oil spilling over you as you pry the valve cover loose (unless you're well prepared for what's about to happen).

You'll also have to monkey with the pulleys from the top of the engine at the same time in order to get the crank in the right position to free the valves you want to check/adjust. (And doing that can be a little confusing the first time, too).

Finally, if the valve check/adjust goes OK, you're left with the problem of thoroughly cleaning the valve cover flanges and mating surfaces on the heads and greasing the new gaskets so that everything seals up OK when you're done.

If you're not used to working on stuff like this and have never done this before, it can turn into a frustrating mess.

If you want to take it on, watch a few YouTube videos on how it all happens and maybe find a savvy VW owner (from a local VW club) who's done this before to hold your hand and talk you through it. That may cost you a case of brews, but it's beer well spent.

Personally, I am a total wuss about this kind of stuff. I used to do the valves on my old 2002, but that was a whole nother kettle of tappets. An inline, upright four, easily accessible from a standing position, where the oil drained away from my face, not into it as the valve cover was opened. I let my mechanic do the valves on the Speedy.

Just saying.

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RE: Bentley manual

I recommend the 66-69 Bug manual. It has 12 volt electrics, and either swing axle or IRS rear suspensions. It has the ball-joint front end which almost everyone has. The only thing missing is a link-pin front end(up to 1965), but they aren't that common on Speedsters.

I have one that I refer to for torque specs all the time(I forget that stuff!).

I have all of the typical mechanics power and hand tools except for a lift and the things I haven't needed for my jeep like and airflow meter, feeler gauges and other measurement tools specific to these types of engines. 

I'm very comfortable getting around anything mechanical or electrical, and with following the lead of youtube videos and advice.  Just still not sure how to interpret the really-bad and not-that-bad noises that can come from these things yet.   Whole different animal, although not that complex. 

I'll crack open the valve covers today when I can get a break between meetings, and see what I find based on the great pointers posted above.  This was a new long block engine with only 750 miles at this point, so hopefully nothing major. 

"I would like to understand why this happened so I can prevent it occurring again."

$#!+ happens.   Maybe it wasn't torqued properly when assembled.  Maybe it just loosened up.

My son borrowed my speedster to use as his "getaway car" at his wedding.  It ran progressively poorer that weekend and finally gave up the ghost right after the post-wedding photos were taken.  He and six other car guys in the wedding party made the right choice to not try to drive it and got it transported to someone's house.  (I think this was written up in a post on here back in August, 2006).

Once I got in there I found a broken rocker arm shaft and have absolutely zero idea how it broke, but I got a stronger pair from CB Performance and installed those instead.  He's been married 15 years now (I know, right?) and it's still running strong, BUT!  I always check the torque on those nuts (14 - 18 ft. lbs.) whenever I check the valves.  Just good PM.

Find your nut and washer.  Remove the rocker shaft and all of the pushrods (place them in order to return them to the same place) and run a mechanic's magnet down the pushrod tubes to try to find the nut and washer (if you haven't found them yet).  If nothing, then pull the sump plate and fish around in there to find them.  Check the ends of the pushrods to make sure they're not beat up looking (both ends should be polished smooth) and put it all back together.  Torque the rocker shaft nuts to 14 - 18 lbs. and re-check them when-ever you check valve clearance.

Last edited by Gordon Nichols

First continued thank you to this group.   What a fun and collaborative community to be part of... I've been part of other communities where people are judgy and pretentious, but not here, so thank you.

I got the rocker off and all of the rods are straight and in good shape (kept them in the proper order so I put them back the same as Gordon suggested).  Just a little rubbing on the one that came loose.

I found the nut that popped off stuck to the valve cover but no washer in the pushrod tube.   I think maybe there was no washer on it and that is why it came off...   do you guys really think I should go for a search in the sump for it or just reassemble with a new washer?   

Doesn't look like there was a gasket on the valve covers but I have a set for when I reassemble.   I just don't have a feeler gauge yet to set the valves when I reassemble it.   

I will make sure everything is torqued to spec as I put it back together.   Is there any torque spec for the nuts on the valve adjusters?   They definitely were not really tight when I took them off.  Just snug tight. 

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@MarylandGuy wrote: "I think maybe there was no washer on it and that is why it came off...   do you guys really think I should go for a search in the sump for it or just reassemble with a new washer?   "

Mmmmmmm....................    Well, you don't know for sure, right?  Does the other rocker shaft nut have a washer under it?  If not, then maybe not - Mine have wavy (spring) washers between the nut and the rocker shaft retainer.  They may have just relied on the nut, alone.  If the other nut has a washer, then start digging.  It's possible your push rod got scuffed a ways down the length by the washer as it passed down the pushrod tube.  

Pull the sump cover and that gives you a 4"+ hole to fish a magnet around in the sump and that should find it, if it's in there.  Not a lot of places for it to hide in - Either laying in the valve cover (or on the floor after you removed the cover) in a pushrod tube or in the sump.  That's it.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/CRAFT...ckup-Tool/1003096204

Last edited by Gordon Nichols

Just catching up with all this...."Bug Stuff" in PA .built this engine and I have trusted their work for many years. The push rods may appear to be straight to the eye but roll them on a piece of glass to recheck them . There should be wave washers on the other rocker shaft to head studs, if so then you'll have go looking .  Hold the plate in place as you remove the 10mm acorn cap nuts then quickly pull the plate away from the engine this will create some "wash effect " as the oil dumps all at once then check to see if a washer is in the oil. If not,  run your finger along the inside and or fish with a flexible magnet. It's good that you have the push rods lined up to go back in the same way they came out. Steel rods get set with zero clearance that being just enough to be able to turn the rod with your fingers.

Last edited by Alan Merklin

I don't use loctite on rocker studs. 8mm wavy washers are available at Lowe's. Look carefully at the rocker stud. They can stretch which would explain why the nut came off. They're about 2 bucks each.

When in doubt replace.10mm on the head side tapered to 8mm for the rocker. Rockers should all be loose when studs are torqued down. 18 ft. Lbs. I believe.

Roll pushrod on glass like Alan says.

Its as if you guys have all done this before     All good news to report so far:

1.  Used Alan's glass test and the push rods are straight -- still have the right order for when I put them back.

2.  Drained the oil, pulled the sump cover and the wave washer was right on top of the cover so didn't need to reach inside or use a magnet.

Now I just need to clean everything up and reassemble later today, and also have to get my timing right when I put the distributor on.   

Great news !  I do wonder why the nut worked loose, check the nut and stud threads  Attached is torque specs ...........  I think you mentioned you have a reference book to guide you in the correct sequence of valve adjustment .

https://www.thegoldenbug.com/e...rque_specs_1970_1979

VW Parts | JBugs.com: VW Valve Adjustment Procedure

Last edited by Alan Merklin

Excellent, MG!

As for your valve cover gasket, are you sure it’s not stuck to your head?  I think I see remnants of it on your valve cover. I’m pretty sure it would leak like a sieve if it wasn’t in there. (They often leak a little even if they are!)

They aren’t a lot. I buy sets of 6 (8?) on Amazon and replace them every time.

Yeah, in that last photo, with the rocker shaft (top), valve cover (middle) and push rods (bottom) zooming in on the cover shows me that 85% of the cover gasket is stuck to the cover and the other 15% is probably still stuck to the head.

Dig the gasket out of the cover channel (flat screw-driver or putty knife, just don't be too aggressive on the cover and scratch it) and then scrape the remaining gasket off of the head (a putty knife or razor blade tool works great here - Don't scratch the head surface) and you're ready to re-assemble.

Cork (brown) or composite (Black) gaskets work equally well.  smear both sides with automotive grease so there is a thin, even coat on both sides.  Let sit for 30 minutes, then wipe off excess grease with paper towels (yes, it's messy.  I can't help that) and push the gasket onto/into the cover.  It will likely bulge somewhere on there, but work with it and you'll get it and the cover in place without bulging inward or outward.  Flip the bale (cover retainer) back up and that should do it.

Gasket:

https://www.oreillyauto.com/de...ver+gasket&pos=0

I have also found that, since the greasy gasket kinda makes your hands yucky, you might just as well smear the stuff all over yourself, too, before you start.  At least that way, you don't miss any spots and will look like a true VW mechanic.  

And "the Madness: is getting strong with this one........

Last edited by Gordon Nichols

Don't be fooled by a gasket looking like it's "in good shape".

It was, up until you pulled the cover off, but now you've disturbed it's Mo-Jo and it'll never seal again.  Get a pair of new gaskets (they're under 10 bucks at Advance/autoreilly's/NAPA) and do it right.

Touch a magnet to the push rods to see if they're steel or aluminum.  How you set the valve clearance depends on which material they are.  If they're steel (the magnet sticks) we'll walk you through how to set the valve clearance - it's easy.  I would trust us on this before a Youtube DIY video.

Oh, and BTW:  Your gas gauge dampener just shipped.

Oh, and PS:  Yes, most of us have been through all this before.  Some of us, MANY TIMES!

Last edited by Gordon Nichols
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