If so, what kit did you use? I've heard good and bad about EMPI's kit. CB performance is permanently out of stock, and Airkewld is $45,7886 per caliper, or something really outrageous... Thanks for any info...
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If so, what kit did you use? I've heard good and bad about EMPI's kit. CB performance is permanently out of stock, and Airkewld is $45,7886 per caliper, or something really outrageous... Thanks for any info...
$457,886...just correcting your comma placement.
Don't do it, Keith.
My ten bucks says you'll f'n hate yourself when it doesn't work.
My ten bucks says you'll f'n hate yourself when it doesn't work.
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Really Cory??
I'm thinking that I'm with Cory on this. My car has IM installed 4 wheel discs and although I've had factory 4 wheel discs on every car I've owned since 1987 (meaning I prefer them), this car doesn't stop like VW's of my younger days.
There's something I haven't figured out that's not matched up, something in the brake proportioning that feels like the braking is mostly at the rear. I don't much like the feel of it.
It's civilized enough, but with a car that's lighter than a type 1 bug stock VW brakes ought to be slamming my nose on the steering wheel but there's none of that with this setup, not even close.
There's something I haven't figured out that's not matched up, something in the brake proportioning that feels like the braking is mostly at the rear. I don't much like the feel of it.
It's civilized enough, but with a car that's lighter than a type 1 bug stock VW brakes ought to be slamming my nose on the steering wheel but there's none of that with this setup, not even close.
I put on a set of CB Roto-hubs w/ park brakes (For IRS) on years ago. Too bad they are out of stock. They must be having trouble getting calipers as the kit w/out parking brakes seem still available.
I love 'em and used the hell outta them yesterday during the Pumkin run!
Ken:As you already have them, I'd give Henry a call at IM. He can surely solve your problem with one quick phone call!
~WB
I love 'em and used the hell outta them yesterday during the Pumkin run!
Ken:As you already have them, I'd give Henry a call at IM. He can surely solve your problem with one quick phone call!
~WB
Bill,
Henry's been great but he's a busy man and this is, to him, an old car bought secondhand by me. It's not like I was having an issue with a car I'd had IM build for me, so I've gotten hesitant to be taxing his memory over stuff. For all he or I know the car's been messed with by who-know-who between the time it left IM and I got it up here.
For example, this car has what I assumed were the IM compressor mounting brackets, but no air conditioning. So I asked Henry if the car had A/C, thinking somebody swiped it. Turns out that this car had to be built with an air pump and catalytic converter for California smog of 2001. Later it was re-certified under their SB100 laws as a 1966 VW engine for smog, and someone took out the air pump and the catalytic converter leaving the second crank pulley, the brackets, and a cheater pipe instead.
I was glad that Henry could remember that some Calif. cars had to have all the junk but realized that it's not fair of me to try to hold him to each and every detail or discrepancy I find today on a car he hasn't seen in more than ten years.
Henry's been great but he's a busy man and this is, to him, an old car bought secondhand by me. It's not like I was having an issue with a car I'd had IM build for me, so I've gotten hesitant to be taxing his memory over stuff. For all he or I know the car's been messed with by who-know-who between the time it left IM and I got it up here.
For example, this car has what I assumed were the IM compressor mounting brackets, but no air conditioning. So I asked Henry if the car had A/C, thinking somebody swiped it. Turns out that this car had to be built with an air pump and catalytic converter for California smog of 2001. Later it was re-certified under their SB100 laws as a 1966 VW engine for smog, and someone took out the air pump and the catalytic converter leaving the second crank pulley, the brackets, and a cheater pipe instead.
I was glad that Henry could remember that some Calif. cars had to have all the junk but realized that it's not fair of me to try to hold him to each and every detail or discrepancy I find today on a car he hasn't seen in more than ten years.
I stalled halfway through a conversion, and wound up back with the drums, but I still long for rear disks when I think of adjusting the brakes. In my case the caliper conflicted with the A1 Sidewinder exhaust (forward end of the muffler, specifically) and we couldn't find a way to make it work on the Beck frame. Found out that Carey has to modify the muffler for cars with that exhaust and rear disks. Using the larger master cylinder, the rear drums work just fine, but I suck at adjusting them.
I guess my experience is different. 18 months ago when I was considering rear Discs, Cory said that he had some trouble ith the same C.B. Performance kit I was looking at. I spoke with C.B. and was told that if the torque specs are adhered to they will work fine.
Mine do work fine and the difference between rear drums and the new discs is phenominal. The proportioning is correct, like my regular car,and a DHS cCillac I recently gave my brother. I know that X % of braking occurs in the front but when I had a panic stop out on I-40 3 years ago with rear drums and front discs, I wobbled all over the road.
Now with the 4 wheel discs the braking is smooth and absolutely straight ahead. I like that the discs are self-adjusting too.
C.B. Had calipers in stock 4 weeks ago because I bought a set after mis-diagnosing leaking rear seals for leaking calipers---then sent the calipers back when I found that the seals were bad. I hope they get more rear disc brake kits in because they work great and are a fraction of what some other kits cost, CSP, for example.
Mine do work fine and the difference between rear drums and the new discs is phenominal. The proportioning is correct, like my regular car,and a DHS cCillac I recently gave my brother. I know that X % of braking occurs in the front but when I had a panic stop out on I-40 3 years ago with rear drums and front discs, I wobbled all over the road.
Now with the 4 wheel discs the braking is smooth and absolutely straight ahead. I like that the discs are self-adjusting too.
C.B. Had calipers in stock 4 weeks ago because I bought a set after mis-diagnosing leaking rear seals for leaking calipers---then sent the calipers back when I found that the seals were bad. I hope they get more rear disc brake kits in because they work great and are a fraction of what some other kits cost, CSP, for example.
I spoke with Keith earlier with my view on the disc conversion, and while it's just my opinion, it is backed up with countless posts and conversations here that seem to add up if we look at them correctly. It's a matter of pressure, volume and placement of better parts being wholly impractical without re-engineering the pieces forward of the pedals.
Hypovolemia prevents all four corners from grabbing at the same time. So what do you do? Skip the discs in the back. Proportioners don't work if there's a stock MC (talking about the CB kit, specifically) and pre-loading the back is tricky anyway.
It isn't a matter of being able to convert an IRS or swing-axle Beetle brake system to rear discs, either. We know that can be done with a JPS, a Vintage, a Beck or a newer Intermeccanica. What I'm very specifically referencing is the Classic Motor Carriages (and therefore early IM, Street Beasts/FiberFab cars with the 2"x4" perimeter box tubing and thick-assed metal arch that prevents the use of a decently-sized improvement on the stock Beetle master cylinder.
The arch that rises behind the pedals, over the tunnel and down the other side is a pretty serious piece of steel. Go ahead and cut that if you want, but you'll have to fab up something to replace it with. If you're doing it to replace the Beetle MC, you're going to interfere with either the tire or the travel of your pedals.
Complicating matters, if you've done anything to narrow the beam up front -- or are using wider than 5.5-inch wheels with the negative offset toward the center, there just isn't any wiggle room. You'll pretty much screw up the front of your car.
As haphazarldy as some of them are put together (the CMC jig must have been crooked, if they used one at all), that's still the cornerstone of the car's strongest structural element. I wouldn't like to mess with it without adding similarly strong materials in place of that arch-and-box complex, and I don't think the average VW enthusiast wants that kind of PITA.
I tried the disc route in order to stop my 172-horse car in a straight line, and it was squirrely no matter how I attempted to fix it. I spent my time, energy and money on parts, then went to Tif's in Annapolis ($70-is bucks an hour for a day's work), AutoFab Race Cars (again, performance shop rates) and At Speed (a THIRD professional race shop) -- and NOBODY could figure it out.
I tried proportioning valves, new lines, two sets of discs and every other damned thing I could think of, and to no avail. Without changing that arch, I am limited by geometry to how much fluid I can push. So be it; I've gone back to drums.
The car once again performs normally.
Hypovolemia prevents all four corners from grabbing at the same time. So what do you do? Skip the discs in the back. Proportioners don't work if there's a stock MC (talking about the CB kit, specifically) and pre-loading the back is tricky anyway.
It isn't a matter of being able to convert an IRS or swing-axle Beetle brake system to rear discs, either. We know that can be done with a JPS, a Vintage, a Beck or a newer Intermeccanica. What I'm very specifically referencing is the Classic Motor Carriages (and therefore early IM, Street Beasts/FiberFab cars with the 2"x4" perimeter box tubing and thick-assed metal arch that prevents the use of a decently-sized improvement on the stock Beetle master cylinder.
The arch that rises behind the pedals, over the tunnel and down the other side is a pretty serious piece of steel. Go ahead and cut that if you want, but you'll have to fab up something to replace it with. If you're doing it to replace the Beetle MC, you're going to interfere with either the tire or the travel of your pedals.
Complicating matters, if you've done anything to narrow the beam up front -- or are using wider than 5.5-inch wheels with the negative offset toward the center, there just isn't any wiggle room. You'll pretty much screw up the front of your car.
As haphazarldy as some of them are put together (the CMC jig must have been crooked, if they used one at all), that's still the cornerstone of the car's strongest structural element. I wouldn't like to mess with it without adding similarly strong materials in place of that arch-and-box complex, and I don't think the average VW enthusiast wants that kind of PITA.
I tried the disc route in order to stop my 172-horse car in a straight line, and it was squirrely no matter how I attempted to fix it. I spent my time, energy and money on parts, then went to Tif's in Annapolis ($70-is bucks an hour for a day's work), AutoFab Race Cars (again, performance shop rates) and At Speed (a THIRD professional race shop) -- and NOBODY could figure it out.
I tried proportioning valves, new lines, two sets of discs and every other damned thing I could think of, and to no avail. Without changing that arch, I am limited by geometry to how much fluid I can push. So be it; I've gone back to drums.
The car once again performs normally.
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Gonna put some new/clean brake shoes in, bleed it all.... And call er' good!
maybe throw a residual valve on there too.
My time is limited, and I'll never dork around adjusting drums again. Never. I'm running CB's wide 5s on my car, and Cory's right: there's several issues.
1) They claim 0" offset, but in actuality add about 1/2" per side.
2) The ebrake cable on the driver's side rides on the (spinning) hub if the car is lowered a lot.
3) Cory had a hub come apart. I've got no issues with mine, but it's something to be aware of.
4) Out of the box, and with the standard M/C, the proportioning is pretty rough. The fronts lock up long before the rears- this sounds good, but there needs to be more push to the rear. I've got a residual valve, etc. I've got two M/Cs sitting on a bench (one from CB, and one from Air-Kewld) which proport to fix this. We'll see.
Still- I'll never go back.
1) They claim 0" offset, but in actuality add about 1/2" per side.
2) The ebrake cable on the driver's side rides on the (spinning) hub if the car is lowered a lot.
3) Cory had a hub come apart. I've got no issues with mine, but it's something to be aware of.
4) Out of the box, and with the standard M/C, the proportioning is pretty rough. The fronts lock up long before the rears- this sounds good, but there needs to be more push to the rear. I've got a residual valve, etc. I've got two M/Cs sitting on a bench (one from CB, and one from Air-Kewld) which proport to fix this. We'll see.
Still- I'll never go back.
Cory:
On a CMC/SB, with that 2"X3" box frame ember going across the front behind the dash, I have to believe that a bracket could be fab'd up between the cross-member and the firewall to allow you to mount one of these drop-down sets:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Wilwood-Reverse-Swing-Triple-Master-Cylinder-Pedal,1959.html
You would get the proper juice amount to each end, PLUS a juice clutch.
And it's a Wilwood! Woo-Hoo!
On a CMC/SB, with that 2"X3" box frame ember going across the front behind the dash, I have to believe that a bracket could be fab'd up between the cross-member and the firewall to allow you to mount one of these drop-down sets:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Wilwood-Reverse-Swing-Triple-Master-Cylinder-Pedal,1959.html
You would get the proper juice amount to each end, PLUS a juice clutch.
And it's a Wilwood! Woo-Hoo!
I went with type 3 rear drums and back plates wider and taller.
The drum is a 2 peace thing like a mid 70s ford. The drum comes off the rear hub with out messing with the gland nut.
Makes brake service Nice!! and the beafyer shoes have more bite area for braking power.. i did do the disc brakes front you have to becareful withe the spindal and outer bear races they offer several versons and some use the 67 ghea bearings on the outers some use standard 70 bug outer bearings and i have had to re drill the driver side disc brake spindle 2 times on 2 different verson to get the speedo cable in it .
If you do add front disc brakes DO! check for your speedo cable fitting through the center before you put it on the car..and drill with a slow speed diamond tip bit. the spindle are harn hard metal. thats a good thing But a real pain if the cable wont go through it.
2 more of my favorite upgrades are grease fittings on the petals Ask Lane for a pic.
and I put a grease fitting on both rear trailing arm bearing housings i can add grease any time I want without repacking them.
I do inspect them when i do grease the rear arm by spinning the whel and leastiong for any odd bearing noise ..NO noise is A good thing
The drum is a 2 peace thing like a mid 70s ford. The drum comes off the rear hub with out messing with the gland nut.
Makes brake service Nice!! and the beafyer shoes have more bite area for braking power.. i did do the disc brakes front you have to becareful withe the spindal and outer bear races they offer several versons and some use the 67 ghea bearings on the outers some use standard 70 bug outer bearings and i have had to re drill the driver side disc brake spindle 2 times on 2 different verson to get the speedo cable in it .
If you do add front disc brakes DO! check for your speedo cable fitting through the center before you put it on the car..and drill with a slow speed diamond tip bit. the spindle are harn hard metal. thats a good thing But a real pain if the cable wont go through it.
2 more of my favorite upgrades are grease fittings on the petals Ask Lane for a pic.
and I put a grease fitting on both rear trailing arm bearing housings i can add grease any time I want without repacking them.
I do inspect them when i do grease the rear arm by spinning the whel and leastiong for any odd bearing noise ..NO noise is A good thing