Anyone Interested in StoneGard Shields??

After hearing the "Where's Hoss" saga unfold and finding that he needed touch-up paint for his cars' nose after just his trip to Knotts, I've finally decided to put a permanent StonGard clear acrylic shield on the nose of my Speedster. The heck with "Character" and all that stuff! I simply don't want any stone chips, 'cause Pearlescent paint is impossible to match!

I called the folks at Stone Gard in Seattle, and they are looking into possible discounts for a group buy. The "normal" price of a 356A shield set (Full nose, full hood, Bumpers and door edges) is $404 as a kit (you have to install it). This is a very good price, and they already have classic Speedster templates, but they do not have a flared-fendered version. To get that, we would need someone in Seattle with a flared fendered Speedster to visit them so they can make a template. THAT person would get the full shield set for $300 - a super deal.

If you want to see the product, go here:

https://secure.stongard.com/shop.aspx

then select Porsche, the 356, then "A", then 1956 and wait for the template to appear. It's a very complete kit, and covers the entire hood and nose. I've seen these installed on white, black and maroon cars, and they're practically invisible on all three. This is the same stuff that the Rhode Island Mercedes, Audi and Porsche dealers are installing on new cars (I checked this afternoon).

I have also asked if they would provide quantity discounts for a group buy for the SOC, and they are getting back to me tomorrow with that info, which I'll pass along. Hopefully it will be a sliding scale - the more we buy at one time, the lower the price.

First: Is there a JLO Speedster in the Seattle area who can help the effort?

Second: How many people would be interested if we can get the kits for well under $400??????

If I can get this moving quickly, I could potentially deliver the East Coast kits at Carlisle or, perhaps, get them shipped direct.

Who's Interested?????
Thanks, Gordon

I'm interested, but how hard is it to get somone to professionally install it? Or is it not that hard to install? How much do they usually charge for such an install?

Why not just buy the front "bra" type and save some money. I have found that all of my rock chips were in the front of the car only? This piece is only 279 normally.

Gordon,
Us Alaskan speedster owners, Tony and Pat, have been looking into them as a possible solution to our road conditions. Keep us posted! Thanks for doing the leg work!

Pat

Steve:

I've already (after 2 years) have tiny stone dings in the front, on the tops of the fenders above the headlights, and halfway up the hood.

Yes, the front fabric bras (like a Colgan) work, but they also flap a lot and tend to wear the paint off your car in spots, especially near the securing straps. As wind passes over them they move around and chafe the paint and some of them make considerable noise. Full tonneaus flap and chafe too, if you have the passenger side affixed. Lots of people have tried/used the fabric bras and decided that they weren't worth the trouble, while others use them more extensively. Each to his own. I also don't subscribe to the "stone dings are a badge of honor" myth. They are ugly, and that's it.

The clear vinyl version (usually produced by 3M, as the Stone Gard is) is adhered directly onto the surface and will not flap or move, nor will it discolor over time. It offers at least the same protection as the fabric version (and often much more protection), it'll last almost for the life of the car, and, when properly applied, is virtually invisible. For that matter, if you say that the Colgan style is $279, then for another $125 you could get something far better (imho).

We've had a lot of debate over these types of guards in the past, mostly from people who have seldom or never actually seen the vinyl version close up. I offer that most, if not all, Mercedes dealerships in the US offer this now as an option on new cars that they sell, and at least in Rhode Island (where I checked) about 40% of their new sales include this option (I checked InSkip (owned by Penske) and Viti (privately owned) here in the state. Both offer the Maybachs and both install the 3M stone guard as standard (but on a $600,000 automobile, I guess I would expect it too!) I looked at it today on three Mercedes sedans and I had to really look to see it. Inskip offeres it on their entire product spectrum; Mercedes, Jaguar, Porsche, Audi, Maserati, Maybach, Rolls and Bently (I may have missed a couple, there).

Even at list price of $400 for the kit, it is FAR less expensive than to have my car painted every few years for $5000, since with 3-part Pearlescent paint I would have to paint the entire thing to "match" it. That's just crazy, when I could spend $400 and make the paint last ten years like it's brand new, or far more if I'm careful (no door dings, that sort of thing).

As to application by one of us, I can't answer that yet. For me, I built an entire car.....how difficult can the application of a pre-cut clear film be? Other people do it! They use soapy water and a low-power heat gun - that's it!

Gordon

I bought it three years ago for my Roadster. VG investment.

Gordon, You can count me in also. Hopefully more would be interested for the discount rate to drop. But this product sure saves on having your speedy repainted.

Gabe

Gordon,

I am definitly in for the group purchase.... keep me posted.

Tony

I'm in.

You would think that at least 15 people would be interested so we could get the 25% discount.

Gordon, if you already have some chips, won't you end up with bubbles where the chips are.

I think another approach to getting a better deal might be to have someone in the group apply as a reseller - the mark-up on that type of product has got to be really high.

3M variant :

solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/_l/en_US/_s.155/98937/_s.155/116318

David:

If you already have stone chips, they should be at least touched up before you apply something like this - it won't make existing chips better, just cover them with a clear film, but they would have to be super-deep to cause a bubble - more likely the film will have a very slight depression where the chip is.

On the reseller idea, I'm toying with that, but that would mean either travelling around and installing this product (at least in New England where others are already doing just that) or getting it shipped to me and then re-shipping it out, or acting as a distributor of some sort. Again, something I'm thinking about, but would have to work up a business plan first to see if it's worth it (this stuff has a limited market, right now, unless it could be expanded to fleets of some sort). Either way, it's not something I was planning to get into for gainful employment!

Bryant: On the 3M Variant you show, pretty much all of these products (Stongard, Autoguard, Armourgard, etc) use the 3M, self-adhering, 6 mil film (or thicker, depending on application) as the base for their product, and pretty much all of the different companies selling either the product as a kit, or as a finished installed product, are using the same marketing plans. I researched this last year and found that it is easier if you can find someone who already has the templates made to cut out the semi-finished product, rather than make your own, although if I were to just do Speedsters it would be reasonably easy to make a set of cut-templates, but, as you can see, it's not going to be a very large volume. If I were to go commercial on this, going direct to 3M is probably the right route. In the meantime, Stongard has the best pricing for individuals I've yet seen.

gn

Great job Gordon.

I will be starting a new build in May and my last ride had a custom Colgan and I still had damage from hwy shrapnel breaking through - Calif freeways SUCK.

Keep my in the loop.

Mike McSween

Gordon, I'm going to check around locally and see if I can find someone to install it, and if I can then I'm in for the full kit.

Gordon, I talked to "the" installation place here in town today, and they won't even do the clear bra installs anymore. They are saying that it will bubble before the second year is up and that they ended up removing about half of them within one year alone? Looks like I'm out?

Gentlemen,

I too have considered the 3M derived protection systems, and based upon my research with a friend of mine that installs it I discovered the following:

1. It is effective with small stone and debris, however it will not provide the same level of protection as the typical removeable bra.

2. It is NOT for the inexperienced to install. Especially with compound curves, it will most certainly bubble up and have to be removed. Experienced installers will be able to adhere it seamlessly and satisfactorily for the long-term.

3. It causes less damage even if it has to be removed, than the chaffing a bra will do as dust and road grit find their way between the paint and bra.

Having said all that, I would be interested in tha group purchase as that is a good deal.

> They are saying that it will bubble before the second year is up
> and that they ended up removing about half of them within one
> year alone? Looks like I'm out?

Hmm... I'd perhaps talk to another shop or two to get a second (or maybe third) opinion. A good friend of mine with an Audi A4 that is very particular about the car's finish had a clear bra from Armourfend installed on his car about 5 years ago or so now. Still to this day, you can't notice it unless you're looking for it.

I think given a competent shop, it's well worth the price for the sake of your paint. :)

Thanks, Scott - another endorsement!

I contacted Stone Guard today and negotiated a discount for SOC members: If we can get 12 people to buy the standard 356 A kit (Their part # 064 022 095), they'll give us a 20% discount for a price of $320 per full kit. That would cover the entire hood, the entire nose, the front bumpers and the door edges. They also offer a light kit to cover the headlights for $30 per kit to the SOC.

This kit can be seen at: https://secure.stongard.com/shop.aspx

Choose "find a product for your vehicle", then Porsche, then 356, then "A", then 1956 and wait a few seconds for the template to appear.

If we can get 15 - 20 members to buy, then they'll go to a 25% discount. They will also provide installation instruction to anyone within the greater Seattle area, although their rep told me it's not all that difficult to install.

So far I have the following people interested:
1. Gordon Nichols in little Rhody
2. DAN PALMQUIST, Corona,CA US
3. Pat Haugh in Alaska We're Halfway There!!!!!!!
4. Tony Gatts in Alaska
5. Gabriel Quiroz, Placentia, CA
6. Chris

Steve:

Re-read my second post, way up near the top. Both of the local major Mercedes dealers (and one, Inskip, is now owned by Penske and sells just about all high-bucks imports) are installing the 3M product on new cars AND both Inskip and Viti here are warrantying it for five years. If your local guy is no longer installing it because it's bubbling after a year, then it's probably a good thing that he's no longer installing it - he simply didn't know how, OR he's using a different (and, apparantly, inferior) product.

Anyway, each to his own......

I'm not sure what you mean? Are those big companies that do this type of work? I'm going to call the mercedes dealership and see if they have somone better who will give that kind of warranty.

I haven't given up completely!!!!

Steve:

Both Mercedes dealerships in this area sub-contract the work out to an outfit called "Autobahn" out of Massachusetts, which uses the 3M product. They have several people doing the installations, depending on where the dealer is - they install the film right at the dealer's shop using the wet method. One of my neighbors is in Sales at Viti Mercedes and she tells me that these guys always spray something out of a couple of different spritzer bottles when applying the film, and it actually can be slid around to position it before they finally set the adhesive using a little squeegee. They also use low power heat guns, but only along the edges, never in the middle of the film. She says the stuff is amazingly pliable (they install indoors) and can be made to tightly adhere to any type of compound curve surfaces. Typical installation takes twice as long to prep the surfaces to remove wax than it takes to apply the film.

I'm also looking into Xpel technologies out of Canada. They have a good set of installation instructions AND videos for both headlights and the hood/fender kits. If you wish to see that, then go here;

www.xpel.com/support/installation/instructions.asp

I do not yet have pricing for this product - probably in the next couple of days.

The more I look into this stuff, the easier it looks to install it.

gn

Thanks Gordon, I'll call them locally and see who they know?

I got these on my Passat and the gravel on our roads up north is significant enough to have punctured the covering and put holes in the paint right to the metal. Waste of money for me!

And one of those holes happened in Edmonton on a busy road....construction vehicle up ahead hit a bump and dumped some dirt and stones and I couldn't avoid.

Total waste of money in my opinion. I'd rather put up with the hassles of a good quality bra. I've seen guys come up here with welded "shields" in front of their vehicles with chicken wire and wire screen....that's the only way to go.

Brian

Well, all of the product sheets I've seen state "eliminates paint damage from flying insect excretions/acids, stone chips, road salt, and ash."

They don't protect from flying stones or anything really big, like those crow-sized mosquitoes you have up there.

Most of what I get in New England or South Carolina (where I'll be driving) are bugs up to the size of a June Bug (size of your finger tip) or something like that, or maybe some gritty road debris - seldom, if ever, see anything like real rocks thrown around, so one of these films would be right for me.

If anyone's interested in getting a kit from StonGard.com, call their 800 number listed on their website and ask for the Sales Manager, named Jeremy. If you tell him you're a member of the Speedster Owners group on the internet (Speedsterowners.com) he will sell you the entire 1956 356 Speedster kit for $325 (that's 20% off of list of $404). Tell him that you saw this post on the SOC from me (Gordon Nichols in Rhode Island) and that he had offered the 20% discount for the group.

Bear in mind that this is a KIT! You have to install it yourself (and there are plenty of instruction videos and tools available) or you can take it to someone who installs this stuff or installs window tinting and have them install it for you. I've found someone locally who installs a similar product but didn't have the cutting template for my car, so he'll be installing the Stone Guard kit for me, right after I return from Carlisle.

gn

Caution on installing these yourself. A guy I know that owns a body shop made it pretty clear to me when I asked him about these that they are pretty difficult to get on correctly and if you don't get all the air bubbles out you will have problems.
Troy

That's possibly true, but I've also heard that they are very similar to installing window tinting.

Either way, if anyone's interested in watching a streaming video of the installation process, then look here:

www.xpel.com/support/installation/videos.asp

I installed the same product (distributed by ClearGuard, I believe) on my '04 Acura TSX. The smaller bits (hood, air dam) were almost trivial to install as long as you were careful. The main piece over the fascia was quite a bit more involved because of its large size and several sharp character lines that the plastic had to be streched to cover without bubbles. However it wound up looking pretty darned good - particularly for a first attempt. Some tips:

- Avoid kits with a lot of small pieces that have to be matched up. They are easier to install but the seems will eventually collect dirt and look bad. Large single piece kits give a better end result despite the more difficult installation.

- Keep your hands clean. Any dirt or grit on your fingers will get transferred to the sticky side of the material and be a bear to get out.

- Watch the video a couple of times and try it out with some extra material. Many of the kits will provide some practice material.

- Oh yeah, keep your hands clean.

- If a thicker material is available for your headlights, get that too. Many vendors offer it as a separate product.

- Expect to have a few small bubbles that you have to pop with a pin. Just be careful not to stick your paint.

- Did I say keep you hands clean?

The front of a Speedster does have a lot of compound curves, but they are gradual and shouldn't present much of a problem.

I took my Speedster to the guy who will be installing mine (just AFTER Carlisle, alas...) and when he looked at the curves of the front, his only comments were: "Can the little grills, headlights and bumpers be removed easily?" and, after I told him I would have them off when he arrived (to do the install at my house) his next comment was "Ok, then, this should be pretty easy - those curves aren't bad at all!"

He did say, though, that if you get wax or dirt built up along the edge of the material, it can be easily removed with a Q-Tip dipped in alcohol and rubbed along the edge.

gn

Gordon,

I would be interested in this also if you are still aiming for a discounted price. Sounds good! I'll look for you at Carlisle.

Marcos

OK, Marcos......pretty much packed for the trip......just have to do some last-minute maintanence to the tow vehicle (we're trailering to see if we can get the award) and we're ready.

I'm pretty sure the discounted price shown in a post above is still valid, but I'll call StonGard tomorrow and make sure, and then post the news.

See you at Carlisle! Look for Pearl - Chris and I won't be far away!

gn

Marcos,

Are you coming with or without your IM?

Gordon,
Did you get yours put on yet? I couldn't remember the name of the maker and by chance found the 3M type for the complete kit going for
$194 - 10% off this week for Porsche kits this week. I found a guy here locally that can do the install, now I'm trying to figure out what the difference is in the two types that make that big of a difference in price. One site with an article about it and a site for the place selling it:

www.automotivearticles.com/Clear_Bra_3M.shtml

www.invinca-shield.com/asp/genkit.asp?kit=3641

Anybody out there that has seen the invinca shield or 3M type?

Pat

Pat: Sorry I didn't get around to responding sooner - Carlisle, new grandchild to visit and Spring chores got in the way.

Yes, I have mine installed, and that $194 for the Invinca kit is a terrific price.

Advantages/disadvantages of the various kits:

The Invinca shield is made of several parts, all of which must be aligned closely together so the seams line up. Not all that hard to do with smaller pieces, but there WILL be seams, especially in the middle of the hood. OK on lighter colored cars, but with Black, another matter. Wax build-up can be removed from the seams with a Q-tip and a little rubbing. The advantage is much easier installation, virtually no wrinkling anywhere and the pieces are cut so that they wrap around the hood edge. Disadvantage is several seams. Reports on Invinca are they have good product and good post install support.

The StonGard kit (~$360) has a single piece for the entire hood (the only one that covers the whole hood, I think) and another single piece for the entire nose. THAT piece may be problematic, since there are a lot of conflicting curves to contend with on the nose - installing this stuff on a 356 is NOT for the faint-of-heart. It'll require a lot of pulling and stretching to get it on, and may require a "pleat" cut or two, especialy radially out from the headlights, as the 3-D curves there require that the film be "gathered" and it forms two pleats which must be cut out. THAT's why paying for someone good to do the install makes all the difference - whether they do an artful cut or a hack job. BTW: I haven't seen anywhere on Stongard's site that they use 3M film, so they're probably using something else. 3M is the best by quite a lot (and been doing these films longer than anyone, too). Reports on Stongard is that post install support is not very good.

I didn't go with a "kit" but had someone locally do an install of 3M bulk film (24" high X whatever wide to include my fender flares) across the nose, and another piece on the hood (bottom 1/3 of the hood to match that used on the nose/fenders). Overall, it looks terrific (pictures tomorrow) and cost me about $400 complete with installation (at my house!). I removed the lights, horn grills and bumpers before install (made it a LOT easier).

If you get a kit, get a 3M film, period. Also, expect to pay $150 - $250 just for the installation. If you can get it installed cheaper and it looks good, you got a good deal. People who do window tinting are usually good with clear nose films, too (similar install techniques). That Invinca price is really good......

Hope this helps......gn

Lo Siento, Damas y Caballero's ;>)

I have the pictures of the car-mit-film, but I can't seem to complete the uploads. It gets to the point of doing the checksum on the file and hangs (Theron??) so I haven't gotten them in here, yet.

If anyone wants to see them right quick, email me direct and I'll ship'em on over til I can get'em up on here.

gn

Hey Gordon, just got the pictures. Your car looks great. Funny I'm ordering stuff for my car and it ain't even here yet, damn it! Summer is half gone, not really, I hope she gets here soon. I may have to steal Tony's when he's not looking! Thanks again Gordon!

Pat