Anyone know this Beck FS in SoCal?

That's a beautiful find.

My only experience with BHMC was that the cars they claim to be selling may not actually be in their inventory. Sort of a way to get you into their sales funnel. I'd call them to make sure they have it on hand before you go through too much trouble with this one. If it's real, full speed ahead!

The car is very lightly optioned except for the engine, but it looks nice.  The interior looks like the car is ~10 years old, not due to condition but due to the type of seats and door panels.  I think it's a bit high, so you should have several thou in negotiating room.  As Ryan said, BHMC is know for not having everything they advertise.

EDIT: Oh yeah, there should be a full-sized spare tire up front.  that seems to be missing.

The only other thing I know about that dealership is that they've been known to anonymously buy Speedsters that miraculously appear on their showroom floor marked up the next week. And some of the cars they show on their website were sold years ago but designed to get inquiries so they can look for you.

A Beck with a Bergmann 2498cc 200hp engine would be a blast. I hope your wife is a competent driver.

I would be wary of anything with a Bergmann engine in it; if it makes the advertised hp and runs well great, but there's reportedly lots (and lots, and lots, and...) of horror stories with his engines. Look him up on the Samba's Feedback Forum. 200 hp in an 18 or 1900 lb car will be an absolute bullet- get it checked out by a competent VW guy and maybe even put the car on a chassis dyno. It'll actually be a quick way of finding out if the parts that are supposed to be in the engine are there.

BHMC is a little "shady" as has already been mentioned...

Hope this helps. Al

Putting that car on a chassis dyno or even just getting it up on a lift won't really tell you much about that Bergman engine - you have to see what's inside of it.   Things I have learned about Bernie Bergman's operation:

1.  I bought a Bergman 2,110 long block with an Engle 120 cam and "Hot Street" porting.  When it was assembled, crankshaft bearing #4 (right in front of the flywheel) got crushed and the engine, once started, seized after 15 minutes of running.  I pulled it down and completely rebuilt it.  All parts/services I asked for were there, but they should have done a better job porting the MOFOCO 044 heads (I cleaned that up myself), and they should have caught the crushed bearing even by turning it over with a wrench.  I was pleased to see the parts used that I contracted for (no used or no-name parts) but I am not especially a fan of his/their workmanship.  But, that said, when I was assembling it I cocked a camshaft bearing, didn't see it and crushed it AND damaged the case, which got repaired/machined and then re-assembled without incident.  I guess assembly slip-ups happen to all of us and I got to meet some cool Harley-Davidson engine machinists.  

2.  If you have Bernie's 911-style fan shroud it eliminates the stock, VW oil cooler tower (no room for it) so you need at least one, and maybe Two heavy duty oil coolers to keep it cool-ish and, even then, for an engine over 2.4 liters, keeping it cool will be marginal.  He used to recommend DeRale 16-pass coolers like this: 

and they are totally adequate on a comfortable day, and work well on a hot day, for me, but my engine is a 2,110.  Best place to have them mounted for a 2,438 engine is in BOTH rear wheel wells.  The hose routing to those twin coolers can be a nightmare but is very do-able.

According to other posters here, that is a 10-ish year old car with only 2,000 miles on it.

Why so few miles?   Could it be that it has always run hot and no one cured it for the PO?  Kelly Frazer (el Frazoo on here) has a 2,338, although it is not a Bergman engine.  He's running a later VW fan and cooling tower plus an external cooler and filter and he has no cooling issues that I am aware of, so it can be done on larger engines.  I just wonder how cool THIS engine is on a hot day with a cooling system known on here and on the Samba to be marginal at best.  I didn't know that Beck installed Bergman engines, but Carey Hines could comment on that if you contact him.  

Other than that, it is a nice, albeit lightly optioned, Beck that is probably worth something way closer to $30K, but the dealer is looking for his $1K - $3K cut, too, so there you go.

2.5 liters from a Type 1 is pushing some kind of envelope, imho. How many others of that size do we know of?

911 Guy posted:

Newbie to these cars and "in the hunt'' for my wife (that's the story anyway) and asking for the help of this distinguished membership please.

https://www.hemmings.com/class...&gid=1&pid=1

Is anyone familiar with this car?  Has anyone heard of this engine?  I really NEED all that HP honest!  We live up high in the mountains and the air is so thin!   How does the price seem?  Is the dealer a friend or foe?

I welcome any and all of your comments and opinions. 

Thanks

Mine is pretty close and is smogged exempt for CA last year. Let me know if interest. 195cc 130 HP Tony

Gordon Nichols posted:

Putting that car on a chassis dyno or even just getting it up on a lift won't really tell you much about that Bergman engine - you have to see what's inside of it.   Things I have learned about Bernie Bergman's operation:...

 

While I agree with you about almost everything you said, Gordon, my point was that putting it on a chassis dyno (at less than $100 a pull)  would be a quick (and probably the cheapest) way to verify the power output the seller claims. If it makes close the power claimed, then the buyer would be satisfied that the engine is what the seller claims it to be. If not, then yeah, the only way to verify what is in it would be with a tear-down.

As I've said, I've read countless horror stories concerning Bergmann engines- starting at shoddy build practices to poor combos, mismatched heads, different pistons/cylinders from side to side, pieces of welding rod still attached to stroker crankshafts (would have loved to seen those pics), engines just not having the high dollar parts people paid for and even mismatched case halves!

There are "happy customers" out there who love their BB engines and have been rolling along for (apparently) many thousands of miles. But again, I totally agree with you, there are a good many people who didn't get what they paid for...  

Buyer beware on that engine. FYI, I'm running a 2165 highly strung with a 911 shroud and a single external MESA 96-plate cooler. No issues.

Then again, I don't have to deal with a couple hundred extra cc's or that pesky tiny engine compartment you Speedster dudes have.

If that BB motor put 150hp to the wheels, I'd be surprised.

Has Beck used Bergman engines?

DannyP posted:

Buyer beware on that engine. FYI, I'm running a 2165 highly strung with a 911 shroud and a single external MESA 96-plate cooler. No issues.

Then again, I don't have to deal with a couple hundred extra cc's or that pesky tiny engine compartment you Speedster dudes have.

If that BB motor put 150hp to the wheels, I'd be surprised.

WHY BEWARE ??  Just a curious question from a student of SOC.....

Because BB has a well earned bad reputation.

I had a fresh BB engine ( it came with a project speedster) had hydraulic lifters ..be as it may , a  lifter got dirt into it hammering away like a Russian tap dancer. Had to tear the engine down to replace the lifters and found things like 3 pistons by one mfg and the 4th by another mfg, poor machining, no counter weight crank that was listed on the build sheet and the list went on .

Banzai Pipeline posted:

DannyP posted:

Buyer beware on that engine. FYI, I'm running a 2165 highly strung with a 911 shroud and a single external MESA 96-plate cooler. No issues.

Then again, I don't have to deal with a couple hundred extra cc's or that pesky tiny engine compartment you Speedster dudes have.

If that BB motor put 150hp to the wheels, I'd be surprised.

WHY BEWARE ??  Just a curious question from a student of SOC.....

 Haven't you been reading?

Geez, thank you all for your help!  I think it's safe to say, the Bergman engine should be avoided.

What I need to do is drive a couple of these and see how much HP I really need.  I admit to being a big HP addict and have always gravitated to the biggest numbers.

How about I modify this thread to becoming a survey of how much HP you guys think is best in a speedster?  Please bear in mind I lose 12-15% up here in Tahoe (my house is at 7620').

Thanks again everyone.

Bill

Bill ;

This gentleman lives at the Lake.  I'm sure he would be glad to chat with you about, his car and the elevation, etc.

@majorkahuna

ALB posted:

Banzai Pipeline posted:

DannyP posted:

Buyer beware on that engine. FYI, I'm running a 2165 highly strung with a 911 shroud and a single external MESA 96-plate cooler. No issues.

Then again, I don't have to deal with a couple hundred extra cc's or that pesky tiny engine compartment you Speedster dudes have.

If that BB motor put 150hp to the wheels, I'd be surprised.

WHY BEWARE ??  Just a curious question from a student of SOC.....

 Haven't you been reading?

 good to know all is well

The factory assembly tag has been drilled out and removed (4 empty rivet holes around the tag in the nose), so I cannot tell you much about the car...  If you can get a chassis number (9 digits 356.000.XXX) I can pull the file and see if it was a factory built car or a kit.

It is certainly an earlier car, simply based on the interior photos of the old style stock seats and door cards.
My hunch is that it was a kit sale.  We don't use Bergman motors or 911 shrouds, except on the very rare occasion that a client insists on it and in those cases they have to send it to us...  I can only recall this happening a couple times in the last 15 years.

911 Guy posted:

Geez, thank you all for your help!  I think it's safe to say, the Bergman engine should be avoided.

What I need to do is drive a couple of these and see how much HP I really need.  I admit to being a big HP addict and have always gravitated to the biggest numbers.

How about I modify this thread to becoming a survey of how much HP you guys think is best in a speedster?  Please bear in mind I lose 12-15% up here in Tahoe (my house is at 7620').

Thanks again everyone.

Bill

Bill I am off to SLO this weekend. Give me a shout next week and I tell you all the stories about owning these little jewels at altitude. Fortunately we have an expert just down the hill in Auburn. My car ran poorly for several years until Anthony was introduced to the equation. I live in SLT near the CA lodge. She runs well at elevation and is very quick in the flatlands. 

I was interested in buying a BB cooling system until he told me in a phone conversation that he invented  hydraulic lifters and cam for a VW engine......Bruce

That's Bernie.