Skip to main content

I feel I have done a pretty good job of getting my VS water resistant.  I have definitely solved the water intrusion problems of;

The windows---adding an extra 2" +/- to my windows so that they  fit into the slots at the top and sides where the windows are supposed to fit. ( What a concept!)

Water dripping on my knees--a dollop of silicone to each window frame rivet below the window frame up under the dash.

Water dripping at the top of the windshield while driving in the rain--a third (center) top latch plus better rubber sealing rubber across the top where the window meets the bow.

Water intrusion at the sides of the windshield into the car--Silicone at the base of the windshield across the length of the windshield---and at the ends.

But the wet floors were always an unsolved problem.  I truly believe I solved that today.  For a VS the vaunted water shields are meaningless because there is nothing to be helped by the shields.  The fiberglass where the shields go are continuous and thee is no area where a shield would mean anything. The next step was to fill the voids in front of where the rear tires throw water into those voids.  Done-- and no help.  Coming from the Tour De Hoe we drove through rain as hard as any I have ever experienced.  This deluge led to water on the floors yet again. I'm talking 2" behind the seats --disgusting and defeating.  Thoroughly dried out with two window fans after getting home.  

So--Conferring with Alan Merklin this week---we don't call him the "wizard" for nuttin' --I had a plan to once and for all make the leap to nirvana---"dry floors in a Vintage Speedster".  Step one was to slather the good 3-M undercoat product in the fender wells where the wheels throw water ahead and into voids at the front of the wheels, that John Steele pointed out to me at Carlisle 3 years ago.  After 2 tubes of good silicone in the two voids on each side I still had the floor water but slathered it again today with the good 3-M undercoat product for good measure.  I just knew this was not the cure so today I went to a local mechanics shop and used their lift to seek a cure once and for all.  Here's the big secret no one has posted about in my 14 years of Speedsterdom;  there is a junction  where the fiberglass body ends and the steel pan begins. It is underneath the car just about where the package tray 's edge goes straight down to the floor. The fiberglass edge is above and the steel Bug pan is below and the two edges meet there. There are two steel tubes maybe 5" diameter and 10" wide on each side.   hey look like axles but they are just 10" tubes on each side of the center.  You can't miss them if you are underneath the car.  In my car on the left side, the place where the fiberglass and the steel was sealed with that shitty expandable foam!!  That might take up some space but it is NOT waterproof!  On the right side there was an old rubber gasket between the two surfaces and some undercoating that was clearly beyond it's sell-by date. Here is where the water was coming in.  It was pretty exciting to see this clear proof of what was causing my wet floors.  I have never read a post about this place for water intrusion anywhere and was pretty excited to have this revealed to me. 

I cleaned out as much of the crappy expandable foam as I could and replaced the removed foam with the best Professional  3-M undercoating---like 3 coats of it.  On the right side of the car there was no foam stuff but the rubber gasket material was loose against the place it was supposed to be protecting,  I removed the worst of the gasket material and slathered  the area with the same 3-M product.  I am sore from 3 hours of dealing with this!

I haven't tested it yet but I will tomorrow on the way to a car show in N. Little Rock honoring Vets, but  I am pretty confident I have solved my wet floor problem and will post a report later.  One note---after all the work today it dawned on me that brushing on that "Flexsteel" product that is hyped so much on television might have worked even better than the 3-M undercoat aerosol.  I believe that whatever the outcome of tomorrow's drive I will still jack up each side of the car and brush on that Flexsteel product.  Alternately the Flexsteel tape may be a good way to seal the problem area.

I apologize for the length of this post but 12 years ago I would have welcomed it.  The big news is that the place where water entering the floors pf a VS has  been discovered.  This is the big news of this post--"where the hell is the water coming from??"

This could have been taken care of during manufacture but sadly we all understand everything about that.   I doubt that the owner of a car built by the business that manufactured his personal   Speedster replica has water on HIS  car's floor.  He solved this issue for himself.  We are on our own.

I would have loved this information when I first got my car and hope this info help's others.

2007 Vintage Speedster/ Jake Raby TYPE IV engine

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Speedster posted:

I don’t even have a speedster yet and read this so closely. Thanks for sharing your secrets! For your windows did you just get them remade 2” taller? If so where did you get it done? Will definitely use this as a resource once I finally get my speedster my one day..)

That one was easy--I just had an upholster shop sew a 2" or so strip around the top and sides of the window.  Got some of the window material from Kirk at Vintage.  I'll post a photo later.  The ordinarily windows do not extend into that pocket around the convertable top ---they just barely enter it.  Cardboard templates taped to the original windows adjusted for a perfect fit shows the size of the addition that is needed.

Wolfgang--I never saw that info from the CMC build manual--thanks for posting it.  Under areas to be glassed it fails to mention the area you described as "that junction between the body and pan".   Anyway if Vintage had done as CMC describes, all their cars would be better about water intrusion.  

 

The tubes Jack is mentioning I believe are the rear torsion bar tubes, shown here (the X's on the right):

JackStandLocations

It is really difficult to see up in there to find the body-to-pan gaps unless you get the car up on a lift and then you're looking right at them.

Another issue to consider, especially on a CMC car, is that the top of the rear central tunnel where the body sits down on it is flat, while the CMC body frame has a radius there, leaving a gap of 2"+ to contend with right on top of the tunnel.  This gap cannot be seen from the cockpit of the car.  Like Jack, I have emptied all of a couple of tubes of silicon caulk back there and probably missed a few leaks even with that.  It's almost impossible to see where the gaps are from the cockpit side of the car - you NEED to get it up on a lift to get sealant up in there properly.  Just shooting it in there with a caulking gun has limited effect - It helps to get up in there with a small brush after shooting the silicon in to spread it around and into the voids to get them sealed up.

Also, there is a drain hole on the underside of the pan's central tunnel, just ahead of where the pan and transaxle support arms intersect.  Your car may or may not have a small rubber nipple on that hole.  Do not seal that hole!  It allows any moisture condensing inside of the central tunnel a place to drain out.

Attachments

Images (1)
  • JackStandLocations
Last edited by Gordon Nichols

I remember Tom D's new green coupe showing up at Carlisle the "one" year it rained there.  He had 2" of water sloshing in the floor pans.  A group of local SOCers spent hours sealing it up (and fixing the engine).  I'm sure thread is still here somewhere.  

BLUF - IT NEVER RAINS IN SUNNY CALIFORNIA!

p.s. there is a product called BASF Sonolastic that I believe is better than silicon. It is polyurethane based and sticks better than silicon to adjacent surfaces.  It comes in black.  HD carries it.

Last edited by WOLFGANG
Alan Merklin posted:

With the current speedster project I am restoring I'm going to cut the vertical fiberglass away in front of the rear seat area away so that the area can be sealed correctly then reattach the fiberglass panel.   Thanks Jack for the heads up!

That's the right way to do it, Al.

I think I did post on this about 15 years ago, just before Jack came on. My JPS leaked horribly from this area-- the body's subframe couldn't begin to conform to the complex contours of the back area of the pan, and the fiberglass was just draped down and trimmed (sort of)to roughly follow the contour. The only thing that closed it up and finished it was the carpet.

The problem is that with the running gear installed, it's really rough to get to every crevice from the underside. Without pulling the carpet out, it's impossible to get at it from the topside. I ended up shooting 3 or 4 tubes of silicone in the void, and it still wasn't right.

During the build, it would take 15 minutes and a can of Great Stuff. You could trim it after it cured, then top it with a bunch of undercoating or truck-bed liner. It's the single biggest source of air/water infiltration.

@Jack Crosby-- I'd also check to see that your car has the covers for the shift coupling in the back and the front access cover in the Napoleon's hat up front. My JPS had neither.

Thanks, Stan---I'll check that.  And Gordon's diagram showing the rear torsion tubes are what I was trying to describe.  That fiberglass body to pan seam is exactly in front of those tubes.  On a lift that seam is totally  exposed and simple to seal.

If I built pan based Speedsters I'd guarantee that the car was made waterproof and would advertise this advantage over the competition.  Why the hell is it too much to ask that for a Speedster replica, that water not leak into the freaking floor??!  And at the top of the window bow.  And at the windows where they don't fit into the pockets.  And onto our knees from the window frame rivets? and under the windshield?  

I am happy that I can now say that after 14 years my VS is pretty well totally sorted.

Alan---you are doing what VS and others should have been doing all along.  Good for you!  

Post Content
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×