Bad Noise

Sorry to hear about this, Michael.. I think we've all been there.  I'm afraid I have no insight to offer on the noise.

One good thing did come out of this, however.  I am sure I will find many uses for the phrase "Residual pissedness."

Did it continue the clicking sound when you shifted through the gears getting to where you could pull off the road?

Good question Gordon. I think I just stayed in the original gear.

Don't know what you're trouble is, Mike, and I hope it's minor. fwiw, three years or so ago my car started making a concerning clicking sound in reverse. Same kind of situation: it came out of gear weird one time and then the noise was there. Definitely in the trans; you shift to neutral and it stops.

I drained the trans fluid shortly after that started, and strained it through a screen and a finer screen (cheese cloth? can't remember) looking for trouble. Finding none, I refilled with new oil and soldiered on.

I've been living with it, for about 6,000 miles and it hasn't caused any inconvenience. The noise abides, reverse gear works, life goes on (until I get time to pull the nose cone off the trans).

I'm sorry to hear this as well Michael.  I will ask my buddy Bruce what he thinks of this if I talk to him tonight and let you know what I find out (if anything) in the morning.

Ok, I talked to Bruce- 1st question- what gear was it in?                                                          Have you tried driving it up and down the driveway in 1st? What happens- if nothing, take it around the block (staying close to home) and shift it into 2nd, then 3rd, then 4th and 5th- where does it start making noise?  Does the noise stop when you downshift from the gear where it starts?  When it makes the noise does a gear seem to 'skip'? (suggesting a broken tooth somewhere)

Of course, it you start it up and makes noise as soon as you start moving, then don't try any more of the above...

@ALB,  I am not sure what gear it was in.

I have been afraid to drive it even a few feet.  But, maybe what you suggest would help determine the problem.

I have been hoping the problem is something clutch related. I wonder if Bruce thinks that is possible.

I have mixed feelings about getting a like on my topic.

I don't like it.

I guess it's possible it's clutch related- first thing I thought of was throwout bearing, but I don't think that makes sense here.  About how fast were you going?  Do you think it could have been in either 1st or 2nd, or a higher gear?  Do you know if your Berg 5 has all steel shift forks or is the 1-2 brass?

I've got to go start dinner- it's just after 6 here and the mob is all home and needs to be fed...

Try what was suggested in my previous post.  I'll check back here in ½ hour. _{I can do that, you know, cook and look at the computer once in a while..  Ok, gotta go...}

I think I might have been in 4th gear, maybe 5th.

Maybe I was in 5th intending to downshift into 4th.

I don't know about the shift forks.

@edsnova posted:

Don't know what you're trouble is, Mike, and I hope it's minor. fwiw, three years or so ago my car started making a concerning clicking sound in reverse. Same kind of situation: it came out of gear weird one time and then the noise was there. Definitely in the trans; you shift to neutral and it stops.

I drained the trans fluid shortly after that started, and strained it through a screen and a finer screen (cheese cloth? can't remember) looking for trouble. Finding none, I refilled with new oil and soldiered on.

I've been living with it, for about 6,000 miles and it hasn't caused any inconvenience. The noise abides, reverse gear works, life goes on (until I get time to pull the nose cone off the trans).

"the noise abides" 😄

My first thought was clutch arm/throw out bearing fork- or splines on rear brake drum/rotors BUT doesn't seem shifting to neutral would result in that.  Recall you have the Gene Berg 5 speed - so not sure there.  Iteresting to do a transaxle drain and see if anything bad falls out.

I'm curious if the shift lever jumps around at all under acceleration or deceleration. Wear heavy gloves, because the shift lever can kick back really hard if things are moving around in there.

Personally, I'd see if you could get Al's friend Bruce to talk to you about it, or maybe Anthony(I forget his last name). They are the only two guys I know of qualified to work on a Berg5. I'd listen to them.

Michael, was your trans under load when you pulled it out of gear? I only just now realized you had a Berg 5 speed. I hope you didn’t do any serious damage. I used to do that all the time, but never when the trans was under load. In my 968, I rarely, if ever, use the clutch when I’m shifting into neutral when approaching a stop. Same with the Spyder when I had it.

@Michael McKelvey posted:

I have mixed feelings about getting a like on my topic.

I don't like it.

It’s a show of sympathy/solidarity.

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Michael, sorry to hear about your woes.

Of the two noises, the residual pissedness may be the harder to diagnose and fix.

I did have a strange noise from the gearbox last year that would occur intermittently when engaging the clutch in reverse or first from a stop. It was a loud, metallic scraping or chirping. It turned out to be the pilot bearing — something I didn't know I had. It doesn't sound like what you've described, but you never know. Here's a link to a description of what the pilot bearing is.

I, too, have a Berg conversion, but this problem was unrelated to any changes in the gearbox that were made for that.

Frankly, I'd deal with the residual pissedness first.

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@Sacto Mitch posted:

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Frankly, I'd deal with the residual pissedness first.

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Ah, I just ignore that when "residual pissedness" EXTREMELY occasionally pops up.

It was there for a bit when I came home with a race car. I left with cash, an empty trailer, my son-in-law and Lenny C. I said I'm going to look at a race car, and if I fit and like it I'm probably going to buy it.

She was surprised????

She's still not that happy about racing, but realizes how much I enjoy it. Now she is supportive.

I'll take supportive over happy.

Visited that scenario often, over the years.....   🙄

@Gordon Nichols posted:

I'll take supportive over happy.

Visited that scenario often, over the years.....   🙄

Red means "Stop!" Do not pass "Go", do not collect $200.

Yellow means "step on it and buy a gift".

^ That's 39 years of experience right there ^, dispensed to all and without charge.

I have a 2001 Road King that should be called "Ol' Yeller", even though it's black and chrome.

@Stan Galat posted:

Red means "Stop!" Do not pass "Go", do not collect $200.

Yellow means "step on it and buy a gift".

^ That's 39 years of experience right there ^, dispensed to all and without charge.

I have a 2001 Road King that should be called "Ol' Yeller", even though it's black and chrome.

"Ol' Yeller" I love it !!!

@ALB, I went out to try what you suggested, seeing if the noise occurs in all gears.

I started the car and the noise was there in neutral, so I shut it off.

I would now call it a lout clacking, not clicking.

@Michael McKelvey posted:

@ALB, I went out to try what you suggested, seeing if the noise occurs in all gears.

I started the car and the noise was there in neutral, so I shut it off.

I would now call it a lout clacking, not clicking.

Clutch in, out or both?

Clutch in, I didn't let it out.

Should I try it with the clutch out?

Throw out bearing clip failure is a possibility.

Clip failure sounds good.

@LI-Rick posted:

Throw out bearing clip failure is a possibility.

I'm going with something along the lines of the throw-out bearing. Clip or bearing itself. The pilot bearing/bushing is also a possibility. All are dirt cheap (if a fair amount of work).

@Stan Galat posted:

I'm going with something along the lines of the throw-out bearing. Clip or bearing itself. The pilot bearing/bushing is also a possibility. All are dirt cheap (if a fair amount of work).

The pilot bearing is in the gland nut.  I'm having a hard time picturing how that goes bad, but never say never.

Time to pull the engine for a look.

It looks like pulling the engine is the next step.

Getting the car in the air will also give me a chance to install my new front sway bar.

I guess the driving season is over.

@LI-Rick posted:

The pilot bearing is in the gland nut.  I'm having a hard time picturing how that goes bad, but never say never.

I'm past ever saying "never": 

June 9, 2020: exploded (Sachs) throw-out bearing.

wow!

I have had one of the arms on the cross shaft that hold the throwout bearing  break off , and over the years had to replace a few of the return springs  that hold the arm where the cable goes thru ......

Good luck , its not a hard job

@Stan Galat posted:

I'm past ever saying "never":

June 9, 2020: exploded (Sachs) throw-out bearing.

I’ve seen an arm break off the cross shaft. Same result.

Huh, I never thought about clutch-related as the problem occurred without using the clutch, i.e. off the gas, slide it into neutral.

Anything is certainly possible. Michael, you have IRS, yes? So you have the later style throwout? It's too bad there aren't heavy duty clips available. Hint: if the cross shaft is a mess, measure it. It's either 16mm early or 20mm late style. I've welded some that weren't looking like somebody cared.

@Panhandle Bob posted:

wow!

Exactly.

Not related to what Michael is going through now. But back in the day when I was first working on my VW I wanted to get a heavy duty clutch for my car. So I bought one and pulled the engine using a floor jack. It was my first time doing this. I got it out and unbolted the old pressure plate and clutch plate. I cleaned up the flywheel and scuffed it up a bit with some emory cloth. Put the grease on the pilot shaft and lined up the disc and pressure plate and bolted the unit to the flywheel. I changed the throw out bearing and install new clips. I was following the instructions from my friend who worked at a VW and PORSCHE repair shop. With all that done I reinstalled the engine. Hooked up all the wires and cables, gas line and battery. Now to adjust the clutch, it felt really heavy and I thought that was cool !! I started the car and it ran great, no leads, everything seem to be ok but the clutch was not adjusting and all of a sudden I heard this racket coming from the car. I shut it off and tried to figure out what had happened. Not having a clue, I pulled the engine again and discovered these clips all mangled it the bottom of the bell housing. I only found out by accident because one of the clips was still under the pressure plate arms.I had no idea they were there and didn't know I was suppose to remove them after the pressure plate was bolted up. Hard lesson, and I was lucky noting really got messed up. It all worked out and I thank the folks here for sharing the knowledge they have from stuff going sideways. Live and learn ......  Hope it's not really serious Michael.

I wonder if you broke a shift fork and its not fully out of 4th (or whichever gear you were in)?

@Michael McKelvey, did you pull the motor?

I haven't pulled the motor yet.  But, I did get the motorcycle jack down from the attic and raised the car on my QuickJack today.

Are you waiting for it to get colder before you pull the motor?

No, but other things get in the way.

Right now I am trying to replace a seized alternator on my Fiat.  My wife thinks that is a higher priority because she wants me to sell it.

I have spent hours trying to remove the last bolt because it can't be seen  and is blocked by an AC hose.