Beck

Check out this car.

cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4513655711&indexURL=6#ebayphotohosting

Is it my imagination or are the shine-up license plates installed over the license plate brackets? Weird huh?

Some Speedsters were produced this way, some of the experts on this site may be able to explain which ones. Not so weird. Here are a few examples of real cars:

www.willhoitautorestoration.com/RickJ.htm

www.willhoitautorestoration.com/images/57Carrera/12.jpg

www.willhoitautorestoration.com/55Galen.htm

www.356sales.com/i112/

That is what is meant by the "shine down license plate" more common in the 56 early 57 cars that usually also had beehive tail lights. I don't think I have ever seen anyone do a shine down with the newer style tail lights??? But I'm sure it has been done before!!

Wow Bruce that's a great website! What Steve says is exactly what I meant. The shine down light was for earlier cars with the beehive tailights. This Beck has the teardrops and it looks weird.

hey Ricardo, that fact escaped Brett Johnson on his book? did you check there?

what fact??? and what book are you talking about??

JJ from what I read, all the T-1s had shine downs, T-2s had shine ups.

But in the real world you see some owner Hybrids, like Carrera mirrors on a 1600 Super, Louvers on 56 GS's, Talbot mirrors, and a bunch of other owner modifications. I will say though, Replica or not, THAT is the first Shine Down I've seen on a supposed T-2 car.

Signed, Not an Expert, Just been doing some homework.

My book says shine down until the mid year change in 57, but the book isn't the bible.....it was just written by someone who was pretty sure they knew what they were talking about!!!!

That's it Steve! That's when they went from the T-1 to the T-2s. That's why you will see a few '57s with Beehives and Shine Downs. Porsche changed to the T-2 car in early 57 that had the Tear Drops and Shine Down.

Apples and Apples Steve.

Oh I get it....but what exactly is different about the T1 vs T2 body???

Steve, get B Johnson's Pictorial guide and check from about page 60-80. It describes the changes in March then Sept in 56 to the Tech Program 2 cars.

I am just learning this stuff. I am sure you are way ahead of me on this stuff. I am enjoying learning. I think George could help us out here.

If I keep getting the 356 bug I'll probably end up with an A, B, or C Coupe to go with the IM Speedster. I'd probably piss off the purists and convert it to all Type 1 or 4 VW drive train though ;-)

A Rookie
Jim.

Steve, I was reffering to Dr Brett Johnson 356 Porsche Restorers Guide to Authenticity. Book is pretty good and straightforward with details by years etc. I guess that if it isint there might be an owners mod like Jim mentioned before...
Anyway, these cars are very confusing sometimes, some appeared with side trim other did not, some had tail light reflectors others didnt. There may be dealer options and the fact mentioned elsewhere on this forum that the guys at factory took whatever they had on the parts bin. Who knows for sure... HNY

The cars built between the model changes often used some "residual parts". Porsche at the time was a very small car company and would try to empty the parts bins. When Hans ran out of the new "eyebrow" tail lights, Dieter, in the parts room would give him the last set of "beehives" and say "auch,use die old vuns, no vun vill eba no ze difrnce". Little did Dieter know how much his "thrift" would affect the future of the world.

Dr. Johnson uses the best data he has on the small changes such as the one being discussed and when he is notified by someone with an unmolested car that "he has different X than the data indicates" Dr. Johnson notes it and updates his database. At the edges of Porsche model changes the line is not that fine. Perhaps the car in question is a replica of one of model change or run outta parts cars, or a replica of one someone put the eyebrow lights on due to personal taste or safety. Conventional wisdom-Shinedown/beehives.

Ive read discussion about when the shape of the shift knob changed.

Dale,

I think most small auto manufacturers did the same thing as Porsche. If a customer wanted a particular feature on their new car, the manufacturer was usually more than willing to "customize" it. Dealers also did some of this, additional income for them. I know Studebaker did a lot of this over the years. I know when I was showing mine in concours it was very interesting to hear the arguments by owners and judges, myself included, over certain engine and trim items. Actually made it more interesting, think everyone learned one thing, that some cars didn't adhear to the annual cookie cutter syndrome. All the model change items were not documented, especially the running changes. Just look at our replicars. I've never seen two exactly alike. Makes it interesting, both to see and talk about.

Happy New year all, West Coast Bruce

JJ,

You mentioned "these cars are very confusing sometimes". I think this has been the case with many of the manufacturersm - both foreign and domestic. If you watch the restorer shows on TV or the Barrett-Jackson auction they talk alot about the variations in the cars that are built and sold, it drives the collector prices up much like variations in stamps and coins. BTW, the Barrett-Jackson auction is coming up January 26-30th on the Speed channel (cable) and is always very interesting as they explain the nuances of the cars.

Hi Bruce, Yes that is a good program for learning something interesting about little details, I was watching the auction today at speed and a Ferrari 365 has less value because it had rear seats. I still have to catch a program when they auction some 356... anyway, conventional wisdom is the way to go... HNY - JJ

JJ, I have a couple of shots of 356s going up at last year's auction taken by a friend who was there... a coupe and a cab (and maybe a Speedy?). I'll try and chase them down. Maybe they sold in the preview lot???

Prices on 356s are definitely going up though. I monitor the Registry thread and that's the general line of thinking, backed up with some numbers.

Bruce, thanks for the links. They do some beautiful work!

The replica speedster that sold last year a Barrett was right during the commercial break!!!!! The never even mentioned it on tv, but it went for around 25k.

I watched some of the auction also. It's entertaining to me but I hate burning the time in front of the tube. There's only two 356's on the upcoming list so far. You can check out the upcoming auction list here. You can even search by make which makes it easier.

www.barrett-jackson.com/events/scottsdale/vehicles/allcars.asp

BD

Always fun to watch and slobber over the Barrett Jackson Auctions on the tube.
Interesting that the Porsche 356 lot # 786
Owned by Charles Marx founder of Marx toys and trains. Wonder if the noted ownership will boost the value?