Beck ? Think Twice Before you buy One !

My story is simple , very excited to get the car after a 3 month delay. ( end of August )
Car arrived with knicks in the paint , all over the car. Cab top was incomplete (missing parts) no one bothered to see if it worked before shipping ? Air-Filter touches the body , engine sets to the side , looking at the car from the rear its not straight ? ( I was told this is normal ) The engine leaks oil ( yes this is a new car ), steering wheel put on upside down ? Shift knob( nardi )just thrown on the stick. No spare tire as the web site said , told later they are having trouble with the spare fitting into the front. (ok then take it off the web site )
Everybody involved are nice enough people. I was sent touch up paint,knob kit , parts for the conver. top ( I thought I was getting a new car , complete )
Bottom line , I feel I was sent a lemon. To keep driving the car I feel it will have to be rebuilt as I think given all the small things missed what did they forget with the big stuff ?
This company really does not think its is a big deal. Sorry I do.

Wow, that's some story! I hope you can iron out the issues.

Which dealer did you by through, and I thought these cars came from Brazil the were finished up here in US by dealer who also Installs Engine. Wow this is not good that a dealer let this car go out the door this way!!!

Boulder Speedster Company acts as the middle man. Cars are built in Denver , parts ( engine , frame and body ) from Brazil to the best of my knowledge. Whats missing is a check and balance. Cars pass through many hands until completion but no one is that final check-off. ( evident in my case )

Pat,

Boulder Speedster Company is our only dealer that does their own assembly. We build all of our bodies and chassis in Brazil, mechanical are all done in the US. Engine and trans come from whomever the customer chooses. Most all of the cars are built in my shop in Bremen, IN (including ALL other dealers), except for BSC's cars, which are done in Colorado, by their own shop. I ship directly from Brazil to them in most cases.

I will be in contact with them first thing in the morning regarding your car and the condition it was sent out. This is not a typical experience of BSC customers, and DEFINATELY not my typical experience.
In reality, none of that really matters, what matters is that your car gets "up to par" ASAP! Please feel free to contact me directly if you need any assistance wiht these items.
In the interim,
Steering wheel and shift knob are a 30 sec. fix (alan wrench for shift knob and 24mm socket for steering wheel).
What carbs are on the engine?
Solex carbs need the low profile air cleaner to clear the body, and with Webers, I use an offset manifold on the passenger's side. You obviously don't know where your engine came from, so I'd be willing to bet you have Solex carbs on it, which, again, is a simple fix (change the air cleaners).
There is no fitment problem with the spare tire as long as you use the proper size. For a full size we use 165/15 no aspect ratio (Arizonan makes one) or for a little extra room you can use a temp on the factory rim.
Oil leak.. I'd guess that it is leaking from either the sump cover plate or one of the senders ( on the engine case, to the left of the distributor).
Send me an e-mail regarding the top problem and I can diagnose it too.

There are a few minor issues that need to be sorted, and again, I will be glad to help you through these if needed. I'm sure you didn't get a "lemon", rather a few of the final details seem to be rushed/missed. I can understand your frustration, as you obviously weren't expecting to have to tinker with things the day you got the car...
Call Eric or Luke and ask them about the build sheet on the car, test driving, etc...

Best regards,

Carey Hines
(574)546-4656 shop direct

I think too many of you are being awful generous in your comments about working bugs out of their new cars...If I buy a new car I expect to be able to drive it many miles without having a mechanic as my right seater....If it means having a few hundred miles on it before its delivered, so be it...and whats with the paint chips on a new car....don't be sending me touch up paint, it always looks like shit......you better deliver at least paint with NO FLAWS to begin with.....
If i was Pat D.. I would be pissed, and that car would be headed right back to where it came from...
I'm not trying to cause trouble here, but give me a break....
We are talking about a brand new car......

Noted Carey. Thanks for the response. I will give you a call. For you to note , Luke has taken a "powder" on this. I have been refered to someone in Denver by the name of Brent at Performance , who "builds" the cars I was told.
Now I really wonder what is going on. How could two "experts" have missed all of these things.
I was told the the filter just needed to be rotated , prior to being told as you mentioned the filters are to tall.
I was told the car was tested ? I guess they didnt bother to look under the hood or I would bet "test" the car at all.
The spare tire I was told by two different people involved with the Colorado operation that a spare would not fit ? (allow the hood to close )
Why would a car in this condition be shipped as a new car ?
At this point I do not expect a honest answer out of Colorado.

The problems don't reflect well on Beck, but problems do pop up. These problems however, sound like the kind of thing that didn't "pop-up" but were there in plain sight for anyone who bothered to look. Too bad no one bothered to look. For that there is no excuse. I think if Pat is somewhat mechanically inclined, getting him to change the air cleaner is not a big deal, but that doesn't solve the paint problem, or the quality control issue you seem to have.

The shift knob is not hard to change. The steering wheel is a little tougher. The top might be really tough. If I was Pat I would want a promise that if I scratched something or broke something while trying to do some repairs, they would be replaced.

The biggest issue is the paint. The paint is a big deal, and again Vince is right, touch up paint won't cut it. Pat, can you post some pics of the paint. How bad is it? There are two sides to every story, and it would be interesting to see just how bad the paint is.

Why should Pat change anything?? As Vince pointed out this is a "NEW" car and should be flawless. Carey it might be in your best interest to get your dealer in Colorado to pick up the car and make it right. It is your reputation that is suffering here and you need to make it right. All I have read of your posts and others comments about your cars do not seem to fit with Pat's experience.
JMHO
Troy

I'd be pretty mad too..and have called them to take it back and make it right...
I always thought Beck was a pretty good company and if they are still that way, they will go beyond whats expected..if not..well...

Michael

Pat D,
If you could keep us informed on your experiences with your new car it would be very helpful to anyone who is looking to purchase a new speedster in the future......

Guys: remember that this is a car thats not being produced in a factory like GM or Ford... If you want perfect call Henry at IM and pay for it.

The cars may be "New" and I'm sure that Carey will get it straightened out for you, but you have to remember that these are toys built on performance platforms and they may need bugs worked out...

Some people just never understand that...

Just my 2 cents- But I build ebery car I drive and know that even when I do it from 100% scratch that it has gremlins to work out..

Hell, one of my customers is the GM of a Mercedes dealership- even their cars get returned to have bugs worked out and they cost a hell of a lot more than a Speedster replica...

GM, Ford and Chrysler are Assembly line cars, ours are hand made.
If anything, ours should be better than theirs.....
Granted, some things can happen to an engine or tranny or any mechanical parts, and one incident is forgivable, perhaps even two..
But this is quality control, not mechanical failure here.....
there is no excuse for this....I'm pissed and its not even my car..

Its obvious that you guys have never tried to assemble parts made in Mexico, Brazil and other 3rd world countries... Thats primarily where the parts for these cars are made these days... Sometimes it tkes an hour of grinding just to get something to fit and then it still doesn't fit right...

Until you experience having to satisfy people that don't understand that- you'll never appreciate the fact..

Thats the main reason I stipped building Type I engines- too many parts made made in too many crappy corners of the world...

I'm not taking up for carey or anyomne else- I do sympathize with them, however and have felt the same pain that they do..

Rick,
Very odd indeed. Are you using the Chinese email and the Brazilian server or was it the incompatible Mexi-cali software??? I'll bet your teeth are grinding, or maybe you need to grind them some more.

I was trying to send you this since you and Karen have gone on your recent health kick, I thought you'd appreciate this little video snippette that sort of sets a demonstrable standard:

http://www.sexyandfunny.com/GymAd.shtml

Paulsmoney@aol.com
Paulsmoney@gmail.com
Paulsmoney@lendscape.com

Pauly (?!!!) and you call MEEEEE bad? I saw some of the additional links on the page. You bad boy you ;-)
Hoss

It's weird to agree with Vince and to disagree to strongly with Jake!

Jake, we are not talking about assembling complicated 3rd world pieces here, we are talking about installing the correct air cleaner, putting the steering wheel and shift knob on properly. This is not rocket or VW science. ANYONE should be able to spot these problems and get them corrected prior to shipping. So knowing they didn't catch these items, it's no wonder they messed up the top and the paint. The whole thing is quite inexcusable.

Paul and Rick, feel free to hijack any thread you chose....

I'm with Vince on this one too. Regardless of fabricator, when purchasing new, the factory should have full responsibility in quality control, or regain that responsibility if a representative is not up to standard.
My VS was pampered (real pampers, ask Paul)when I owned it and ended up blowing (not the good way) several times (yes, more than once) on the new owner after he purchased it with only 1K miles.That car had more miles on the back of a flat bed to VS than on the Chinese VDO. End result is NOW there's two people not happy and like the shampoo... telling two people and two people... not to make the same mistake.
----
Remainder of post moved to new thread by moderator
https://www.speedsterowners.com/forum/anythinggoesreadmsg.asp?t=7913
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I split the strayed portion of this thread to
https://www.speedsterowners.com/forum/anythinggoesreadmsg.asp?t=7913

-=theron

Oh.....well a shift knob being left loose is pretty unexcusable!

I stand corrected-

Jake, perhaps you should re-read the beginning post of this thread,
If all you got from it was a loose gear shift knob, %$&*#%$
and thats being nice....

Jake (oh so wrong!) wrong. Vince right.

While little shops turn out these little cars, it's not too much to expect a quality product, from each vendor. Granted there is a difference between a Vintage, a Beck in this case and an IM, but the items listed in this post are inexcusable at any price point!

When I first got my car, mind you it was a prior-owned affair, I was enamored with it I contacted Kirk and offered to sell them. We struck a loose deal where there was a small referral fee.

My point is someone here is trying to up their profit margin by doing more of the work themselves and someone else is pumping up their sales volume by allowing this...

Someone has to do a bucket check and it sounds like Beck needs to think about the end product/end user a little more thoroughly. They are getting a black eye because of some out-sourcing, corner-cutting yahoo who isn't happy picking up a grand per unit sold.

The second I read this post, I stepped in, whether it is my place or not. I pride myself in quality and customer service. I expect the same from my dealers, and generally receive it. This is a rare case, nevertheless, it happened and needs to be corrected.
I have spoken with the dealer, assembler, and the customer about the issues here. It is being handled. I have given the dealer the opportunity to remedy the situation, with specific instructions for Pat to call me for ANYTHING, as well as to keep me informed. Pat was originally put in touch with the mechanic, and the dealer asumed it was handled. When I brought this to his attention he agreed that a "no news is good news" policy is not the way to handle this type of issue.
FWIW: The car was tested with the factory wheel and shift knob because the Nardi stuff wasn't in stock. One of the mechanics put them on "as the truck was arriving" and never bothered to check the wheel for alignment, and didn't put the plastic spacer under the shift knob, which immediatly came loose.
He had also pulled the top latches to change the brass pins, for steel roll pins, as we do on all cars. These were not sent with the car, and were sent to Pat afterwards (top problem).
The suspension was not properly leveled at the adjuster screw in the spring plates, which is why the car is lower on one side.
Those familiar with solex air cleaners know that they rotate on an elipse and the mechanic thought he had them far enough from the deck lid, but obviously didn't.
The final inspections are done, personally, by the dealer, who was out of town. It was left up to the mechanic(s), who failed miserably in a few detail areas. I have discused the dealer implimenting a better "checks and balances" system, and would not expect to see these types of things ever again.
I am not making excuses for the dealer, as these things are inexcuable. The important thing is that they are fixed to the customers satisfaction and don't happen again...
As for the mechanical "soundness" of the car, BSC has never had a complaint in this dept. I am confident that the mechanicals are properly installed and tested. Nevertheless, the car will be gone over by a mechanic, stem to stern, to "ease" Pat's concerns (which are fully understandable).

I hope Pat will keep everyone informed on the progress.

Carey

Carey,
My hat is off to you for your professional approach in resolving Pat D's woes.
Service ....is the absolute best word of mouth advertising one can convey and again, congrats on a job well done ! Alan M

Carey,
That's the kind of response we have come to appreciate from Special Edition.
-=theron

If I were a dealer who expected referrals from satisifed customers, I would make it policy that buyers who had recently received newly built cars be contacted by my sales/marketing staff to check on any problems that might have arisen, then assure the buyer that everything will be done to make things right.

Merely shipping the car to the buyer, with no further contact from the dealer, then waiting for the buyer to register complaints, if any, is no way to get referrals and no way to assure long-term business success and growth. There is no excuse for poor quality, either in materials or construction of a hand-built car. Caveat Venditor, builders.

Barry! how's your car build coming along by the way?

Michael
did you mean 365?

Carey Hines...Your a good man! It's hard to do everything right 24/7....365 days a year without making a mistake....sometimes things don't go right....sometimes we just screw up......what happens after that happens is the real test....You Passed the test....I think you are a man of charactor and a man of your word....good job! Michael

The best test of customer service is not what you do when things go well (that's only part of the equation). The real test is what you do when things go badly. Thank you for stepping up to the plate Carey. Haven't met you, but in my mind, you're a stand up guy! angela

In one week I am due to pick up my new Beck Speedster from Boulder Speedsters, and after reading Pat's comments, I have to admitt that I was more the a bit on the nerves side. I sent Carey an email, with all the info on when I ordered the car, the correspondence that I had had with Eric from BSC, and my concerns. Carey got back to me almost instently, address ever question I had, talked to Eric, and I beleive Luke, and was very professional in all correspondense we had. Everyone can make one mistake, and I do beleive that Carey has handled this very well. I am lucky because I am going to pick the car up in Boulder, spend one day with the builder, put some miles on the car, then head the 900+ miles from Denver to Phoenix, so you can understand my concerns with build and quality, I do feel that if there is any kind of problem at all, Carey will take care of it, and be right there to handle it. I greatly appreciate all that he has done so far.

What's the story on the paint problem?

OK, I've never owned a Beck, so I've got no vested interest here- just some observations concerning expectations and the reality of owning a custom car.

I think we do ourselves, and the guys considering buying these cars a disservice by thinking of a turnkey speedster in the same way we think of a new Toyota. Mass production has given us products of unbelievable quality, at very low prices. Custom stuff costs a lot more for similar quality. Buying a speedster involves a series of comprimises- a little more money, a little more quality... you get what you pay for. Everybody gripes and moans about the price of an Intermeccanica, but the build quality is a sight to behold. Nothing comes for free in a custom car.

Some things are reasonable for a customer to expect from any builder. Conversely, there are also things reasonable for all builders (of these cars) to expect from his customer. It is reasonable that a customer should expect decent paint (Q: how decent? A: how much did you spend?)- but it is also reasonable to expect that the same customer has some experience with non-EFI, non-electronic ignition old-school technology mechanicals. Really- it isn't unreasonable for a builder to assume that his client can rotate an air-cleaner so it doesn't hit the body. If that problem is too big for a buyer, then he should back away from the car, post haste- because at some point soon he will need to do something difficult.... like (gasp) adjust his valves, or sync his carbs.

This is my drum to bang- these cars are not for everybody. They are not like a new Honda- they are hand built replicas of something conceived and executed before electronic anything. Getting them to seal is almost impossible unless you are willing to shell out for an Intermeccanica or SAW with rollup windows. They require a lot of care and feeding. Valves need adjusted, carbs tinkered with. They foul plugs, and may run hot without a bunch of extra coolers, etc.

This isn't part of the fun- it's the whole fun thing about owning one of these cars. It can't be the wind in your hair and all that, because a used Miata is 10 times as reliable, and 1/10th the money. Speedsters are a way of reconnecting to a mechanical age when fixing a car was something you did for yourself.

They aren't for everybody.

Stan are you saying that if you spent in excess of 30 big ones on a car you would accept a poor paint job. I don't think anyone here is expecting perfection just the best quality that a builder can produce. My vintage does not have the same quality finish as does a JPS or IM and that I understand and accept, but less than perfect is a far cry from "pits and scratches all over the car"

If you buy used then you get used with flaws if you buy new you should be able to expect new. Becks are not cheap and to accept cheap work is not acceptable in any case.

Carey has done precisely the correct thing. He is proud of his product and wants to make his customers happy. I have never read in any of his posts anything other than pride in his cars and a sincere desire to keep his customers happy.

That all I have to say about that

Troy

Stan
I can see your point,but you have to remember these vehicles are custom made for each particular customer which means detail to attention should be number one.

I would be livid if my BRAND NEW Speedster came in that shape. I gotta tell you guys... my USED '03 Vintage was darn near perfect when it arrived at my door a few months ago. I understand that you get what you pay for, but for what I paid, I could not be happier. As you all may remember, I test drove a NEW Beck at $23,500 +/-, and was told that the car was far superior to a Vintage. I am not so sure. This is NOT a post about which car is better. All I am saying is that a BRAND NEW whatever should be solid and should have arrived in BRAND NEW ready-to-ride condition. This was probably just one of those rare things, but I don't blame Pat for his aggravation.

Troy-

In answer to your question- no, that's not what I was trying to say.

I said, "It is reasonable that a customer should expect decent paint (Q: how decent? A: how much did you spend?)".

$30K should get you VERY nice paint. $20K... OK paint. Less than OK is not OK (for any price)- but OK for another guy is definately NOT OK for me. My expectations are very high, but I am aware of it. The trouble comes when somebody buys a new base Vintage, and expects paint like a new JPS or Intermeccanica. If you spend a bit more, the paint shows it.

My point (and it was the minor point of the post) is- there isn't a shortcut around the cost/value equation. Beck is trying hard to get the most for the least by doing a bunch of the work (paint included) in Brazil. Labor is cheap in Brazil, but it's a long way from here (in many ways), and a lot can happen between there and here. Chips and scratches are not acceptable, but I can easily see how they could happen. Caveat Emptor.

The major point of the post? Don't buy something you can't or won't work on. VW shops are dead everywhere but on the left coast and in Latin America. That's why we call this a hobby.

I'm sorry if I was offensive to anybody- that's never my intention.

Stan is right. More money paid should translate into higher buyer expectations. I thought that the paint on my VS was pretty good and given what I paid for the car, a year old at the time, I didn't break the bank. It was fun to learn about the car through trial and a few errors.

I have discovered subsequently that VW shops in the South are not extinct at all. I found a pretty good one here in Knoxville and have made good use of it already for our '63 bug. Also, there are a number of VW restoration shops in this part of the country. I'm sure this has something to do with the fact that the mild winters here don't destroy cars as is the case in the "rust belt" states, leaving something to work with instead of a pile of junk.

I do believe that whatever car a buyer winds up with, new, used, under 20K or over 60K, the fun that they generate is still what it's all about. The bad news is that a georgeous paint job can be spoiled just as easily as a crappy one when some careless, unthinking individual opens their car door against your ride. Ugh!