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Beck Speedster Real world driving experience

FM Former Member
Hi everyone,
OK, first the disclaimer. Yes, we are the Carolinas Dealer for the Beck speedster, but I am also a Porsche owner, driving instructor, and car enthusiast. I am not posting this as an ad, I am posting it as real world experience driving one of the cars in our inventory for a weekend. I read all the posts here, and find that many people are asking 'so, how do these things really drive' and I read words like "wonderful" and "lots of fun", but no specific details. Now, I'm sure I'm going to be bashed for being biased, but here goes:

First, about the car. 2004 Beck with a 2110 cc, 170hp CB Performance engine, Pro-Street Rancho Performance engine, 4 wheel disc brakes, and custom exhuast system.

Now about the drive. I am the local director for the Porsche Club, and we run a bunch of driving events all year. One of these I put together years ago was our annual Wine Tasting Tour (yes, believe it or not, there are wineries in North Carolina). Originally, it was a drive from one winery to another. However, due to the driving/drinking aspects of it, we have have turned it into a really nice 2+ hour "spirited" drive ending up at a great winery. (that is spirited as in "lively", not spirited as in "full of spirits/alcohol)

Normally we take our personal 993 cab, but this year, my wife and I decided to take the Speedster. The route this year was about 130 miles of very twisty roads, with a little bit of high speed back roads sprinkled in. We ended up behind a Boxster S for a while. Now, if any of you have driven a Boxster S, you know that it is a wonderful handling car. And the driver did a pretty good job of trying to lose me. But, the little speedster held it's own and kept up nicely. OK, so there were a few times I almost put us in a ditch trying to keep up, but I guess all those years of Drivers Ed's have taught me something about car control. WHAT A BLAST!! We were squealing tires all through the mountains.

We got to our destination and had a great time. As all of you know, driving any one of these wonderful cars turns a lot of heads.

So, my driving impressions: As was not unexpected, it has a bit of understeer at high speeds. Nothing that a little throttle steer can't fix, but can get away from you if you're not paying attention. It took me a while to really get the hang of how and when to turn into the winding road twisties as it handles nothing like a 911. Highway driving is a bit boring but smooth. We drove with the top down all day and could actually hold a normal conversation most of the time, even on the highway at about 80 mph, though we had to talk a little louder. The custom exhaust is much quieter than the stock exhaust that comes with the car. Overall, it felt like the old 356's, but with more power. One of the guys that owns a real '58 speedster drove it for a while and said the same thing...but also commented that he would drive this one harder than his real one because his is worth so much.

Unfortunately, I cannot compare it to other replicas as I have not driven any.

So, there you have it. Was it helpful to anyone? Probably not, I just wanted to tell you, in a long winded sort of way, that I had a blast driving it.

Next event, we try the Spyder... :-o

-Bob Saville
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FM Former Member
Hi everyone,
OK, first the disclaimer. Yes, we are the Carolinas Dealer for the Beck speedster, but I am also a Porsche owner, driving instructor, and car enthusiast. I am not posting this as an ad, I am posting it as real world experience driving one of the cars in our inventory for a weekend. I read all the posts here, and find that many people are asking 'so, how do these things really drive' and I read words like "wonderful" and "lots of fun", but no specific details. Now, I'm sure I'm going to be bashed for being biased, but here goes:

First, about the car. 2004 Beck with a 2110 cc, 170hp CB Performance engine, Pro-Street Rancho Performance engine, 4 wheel disc brakes, and custom exhuast system.

Now about the drive. I am the local director for the Porsche Club, and we run a bunch of driving events all year. One of these I put together years ago was our annual Wine Tasting Tour (yes, believe it or not, there are wineries in North Carolina). Originally, it was a drive from one winery to another. However, due to the driving/drinking aspects of it, we have have turned it into a really nice 2+ hour "spirited" drive ending up at a great winery. (that is spirited as in "lively", not spirited as in "full of spirits/alcohol)

Normally we take our personal 993 cab, but this year, my wife and I decided to take the Speedster. The route this year was about 130 miles of very twisty roads, with a little bit of high speed back roads sprinkled in. We ended up behind a Boxster S for a while. Now, if any of you have driven a Boxster S, you know that it is a wonderful handling car. And the driver did a pretty good job of trying to lose me. But, the little speedster held it's own and kept up nicely. OK, so there were a few times I almost put us in a ditch trying to keep up, but I guess all those years of Drivers Ed's have taught me something about car control. WHAT A BLAST!! We were squealing tires all through the mountains.

We got to our destination and had a great time. As all of you know, driving any one of these wonderful cars turns a lot of heads.

So, my driving impressions: As was not unexpected, it has a bit of understeer at high speeds. Nothing that a little throttle steer can't fix, but can get away from you if you're not paying attention. It took me a while to really get the hang of how and when to turn into the winding road twisties as it handles nothing like a 911. Highway driving is a bit boring but smooth. We drove with the top down all day and could actually hold a normal conversation most of the time, even on the highway at about 80 mph, though we had to talk a little louder. The custom exhaust is much quieter than the stock exhaust that comes with the car. Overall, it felt like the old 356's, but with more power. One of the guys that owns a real '58 speedster drove it for a while and said the same thing...but also commented that he would drive this one harder than his real one because his is worth so much.

Unfortunately, I cannot compare it to other replicas as I have not driven any.

So, there you have it. Was it helpful to anyone? Probably not, I just wanted to tell you, in a long winded sort of way, that I had a blast driving it.

Next event, we try the Spyder... :-o

-Bob Saville

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H hmfic1
Bob, I do have a couple of questions. Did you do anything different to the front suspension and steering, or is this how Beck would normally build the car. Same with the rear, is it the swing arm or something different. How is the fit and finish of the body, and anything new with the top and back window? Any problem with engine heat.

Guess that was more then a couple or questions, but I am about to pick up a new Beck, and very interested in how you feel about the way the car handles, drives, and the final product.

thanks, Jerry.

and by the way, I do have a 06 Boxster S, and you are right, there is nothing like it to drive on a mountain road.
FM Former Member
Jerry,
To answer your questions:
"Did you do anything different to the front suspension and steering, or is this how Beck would normally build the car. "
- Everything is stock. We set the front ride height to be a little lower than it came.

"Same with the rear, is it the swing arm or something different. "
- Stock swing arm.

"How is the fit and finish of the body, and anything new with the top and back window? "
- Fit and finish are extremely good. And that's coming from all the people that come in and look at it. You will be very happy with that. Not sure what you mean by "new" with the top and back window.

"Any problem with engine heat."
- Nope, and we do drive these around in Charlotte traffic a bunch too. I didn't talk much about that, but we do take the green/tan one out a lot in I guess what is more "real world" driving - city traffic. That is our "show" car that goes out whenever possible. Not as much hp - 1915 cc 125 hp car, but still fun.

"and by the way, I do have a 06 Boxster S, and you are right, there is nothing like it to drive on a mountain road."

Funny story...right after we got the 993 cab, we went on one of our regions "Fall Tours" - full 1 1/2 days of mountain driving. We were on this amazingly winding road, behind a Boxster S and in front of a Boxster. I said to myself, and my wife "there is NO WAY a damn Boxster is going to outrun a 993". Well, he took off, and I had NO CHANCE of keeping up. I swear he never used his brakes!!. Anyway, we lost the rest of the pack behind us, but had a great run. I am a 911 guy, but boy are the Boxsters amazing to drive. (sorry, got off topic a bit).

-Bob
H hmfic1
Have heard that at one point the tops where a bit "thin" and the back window was like plastic wrap, but that they had fixed that problem?

suppose to pick mine up at the end of the month, really looking forward to it. Don't expect it to handle like the S, but wanted to know from someone that has driven a knew one, how they felt about the over all handling. And you again you are right, I had an 03 S, and just got the new one, big difference, and the handling is unbelivable. way to much fun.

thanks for the info, Jerry
FM Former Member
Hey Guys, Before I bought my VS, my wife and I met with these guys and test-drove one of their Speedsters. Great fellas to talk to. They were very nice to me and my then-pregnant wife. Beautiful car also. Ashley and I then went to lunch at Red Lobster where she puked all over their bathroom. That was the result of shrimp scampi and pregnancy, not the car.

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FM Former Member
Jerry,
The top and rear window are made of quality material. Carey said they are planning on coming out with a new top, but will be next year at the earliest. I have no idea what the guy who said that about his top was talking about. The car is nothing but quality, funny I hear people comment on what the original had; square tunnel, etc. The Beck has it! I'm not one to toot the horn, but I love my car. It just needs a little tweaking here/there and it'll be puuuuurfect. I get 210hp out of my 1915cc, CB Performance is amazing.......... I'm kidding, maybe 205hp at the most.

Pat
FM Former Member
That's a bunch of HP for a good streetable 2110. Not that I would question the sales pitch or anything.

Is this space for rent? Theron? Speciality Auto Works, JPS Motorsports, and Jake all manage to support this site and buy advertising space without working the threads for sales. (Example is the the discretion Jake showed in his posts giving advice to a buyer of a used T-4.) They (JPS, Jake & SAW) seem to respect the idea that this is (was) an owner's site, hence: Speedster OWNERS. Com. But the Beck sales dept does not appear to see that line. It started last winter, but this is the most direct sales pitch ever. If this continues on our threads I won't be contributing to this site when my donation runs out. Maybe that won't make a difference in the big SOC, but I will vote with my dime.

No disrespect intended to any owner of a Beck. They appear to be beautiful cars. But I prefer to hear your impressions of your cars, as fellow owners/drivers/consumers. Pat Haugh's impressions as an owner have a place here and I enjoy reading about his sharp Speedster. I also enjoy reading aftermarket parts improvement impressions of any owner's car, new used cars, any turn-keys, completed kits, or Steve's new Water Cooled Cabrio. Those are the driving impressions that count. S.... O.....C.

The leading post on this thread belongs on the Beck Site. Just an opinion. Maybe others won't agree... that's cool. We all have to make decisions on what sites/causes/etc. we donate to.

I'm not seeking support or disagreement. I posted my opinion and it's not likely to change any time soon. If some decide to flame away, I won't respond. Then again, maybe there's not enough members left that care anymore.

Robert, your interest in cars, including P-cars, as a driver and enthusiast are shared by many here. I'm not attacking you personally, but I am upset with the whole concept of sales pitches on this site. I'm happy that you enjoy driving the product you sell. That's always important. But I wouldn't subscribe to a magazine that published the "driving impressions" of any car if that pitch came from the Sales Dept of any manufacturer (Maybe that's why I quit reading Motor Trend in the 80s) and I won't support an Owner's site that allows direct sales on it's Forum threads.





FM Former Member
Jim,
I apologize if my post offended you. My post was a response to a few emails from SOC members that suggested I put it up here. I was trying to put some perspective out there about the Becks, that's all. And from the other responses it has gotten, it seems to have brought up some questions and misconceptions that can be addressed.

My understanding is that an owners club is a place to share information that is useful for it's members and potential members. I felt this was useful info. If not, then people can ignore it. I was up front and honest about my affiliation with Special Edition because I feel the members of this forum are intelligent enough to understand where I am coming from. I could have just as easily posted it without the disclaimer and acted as an "owner" only..

Besides, technically, I AM an owner as I personally paid for both of these.

Theron, if you see fit to delete this post, I completely understand. Sorry if it upset anyone.

-Bob
FM Former Member
And since the question was asked, I'll answer it.

"Stock" CB Performance 2110 engines put out 150 hp. When Carey ordered this one, they put in all the goodies including the ported and polished SuperMag heads and was told it dynoed at 170. The 2165 engine we have in a Spyder was dynoed at 184 hp.

-Bob
H hmfic1
Bob, thanks very much for the information, and answering the questions I had, personally I did not feel like the post was tring to sell anything, but giving information, much like everyone else on here does. I am a new member here, and have read almost ever post on ever forum that I could to get more information on the car, suspension, handling, engines, and the information you gave I felt was very infomative.

Pat, thanks for your info too, I am sure we will talk much more in the future, specially in the next two weeks.

Jerry
FM Former Member
My watercooled 2459cc engine with fuel injection and computer controlled ignition, a decent intake and not too restrictive of exhaust makes, somewhere between 170-180hp. It is hard for me to understand how these guys get that kind of hp out of so much less displacement. I'm not saying it's not true, I am more professing my ignorance on how people get these numbers. I guess thats why I'm just not an engine guy.

Now, I have to say this for the 3000th time, driving an aircooled engine around town is not usually going to produce any heat problems if you have things set up correctly or incorrectly. The true test of heat is when your out at interstate speed for at least 20 minutes. Heck my 2litre aircooled engine took at least that just to get up to its max temperature and stabilize.

Around town, it never got above 180, this was almost irrelevant on my engine, and I suspect this is true for almost everyone.

In fact maybe everyone could report if this has been there observation or if it was just my engine that acted this way?>?
H hmfic1
Bill, like I said I am very new here,and won't have my new car for two more weeks,and like everyone else, really can't wait. I am not real informed on air cooled engines, but all things that I have read from you seems that you do know your stuff. I had Bernie Bergman build my engine, it is 2332, and from what I have again read here, probably over kill for a 356, Bernie told me that it had dyno'd at 140hp, just courious if that sounds right to you.
John LeaderJohn Leader
Jerry - I have been driving a 2332 in my JPS Speedster for over a year. 140 HP sounds about right, depending on exhaust and carbs.

I am continually amazed at the HP claims I've read here and elsewhere in regards to these cars. I'm sure most of them are just repeating what someone told them, but 90% of it is just hyperbole.

You're driving a 1500 lb (at most) car. Why would you even want 170+ HP pushing you around. I'd wager most Speedster Replica owners are not skilled enough drivers to be safe with that much power-to-weight going on.

You'll love your 2332. Forget the HP; it's the torque that makes that engine such a blast.
B Bgeo91316
I agree with Jim Ward's observations about dealer's posting here and viewing dealer's posts more as sales and marketing hyperbole than gospel. And I think most of the assemblers and manufactureres who contribute (as sponsors) to this site understand that the sensitivities of speedster owners, who frequent the site, are such that they will be called to task if their sales pitch gets too blatant. They understand that word of mouth is really the least suspect and cheapest advertising for this esoteric product.

But at the risk of being heretical I would like to suggest readers consider the other sources of conflicted interest when reading posts. Will most guys advertise they got a lemon? Where demand is limited, potential resale value has got to figure into how up-front some owner's posts are. And the more you have invested, the more you have at risk.

It's taken me years on this site to know who the (owners who are) dealers rep's are, and the nature of their tie-ins - do they get a referral fee for new sales? Do they get free goodies. Is there a quid pro quo or some other service exchange arrangement? So it probably makes sense to seek a concensus of opinion, rather than hitch your wagon to one or two professed gurus.

Regarding the debate about horsepower, I think it's a good idea to stay within the published ranges of dynoed horsepower for engine configuarations when discussing your engine's horsepower output. Otherwise you become suspect. I got a real laugh out of Karl's post. He, tongue in cheek, "estimated" at about 170 HP, but the engine blew up at 6000 miles. That's gotta be an expensive cents per mile deal. Most engine builders will not give warranties for high performance engines, could it be they know something?

I still find the "hot rod" fixation for overwhelming horsepower to be a peculiar characteristic of many Speedsterowners.com members. Maybe it's a funny car thing.
B Bgeo91316
Jerry: I'm not nearly as experienced a "wrench" as many here are. I have owned three bugs, two VW vans and I have subscribed to hot VW's for several years. As John L. mentions above, Bernie's horsepower statement is easily within the realm of possibility for a 2332. Carburation, heads, rockers, and exaust manifolds are considerations that account for significant variations in horsepower.

I have a 1915cc engine with a 3:88 Freeway Flyer. On the level I can cruise at 75 mph at 3,400 RPM and if necessary I can accelerate to 80+ mph, quite rapidly. I don't think I've been above 90 MPH for very long yet, the SUV's scare me. But this is all freeway stuff.

The real pleasure of the car (for me) is the backroads. Accelerating through a series of hairpin twisties while pulling away from the motorcycles behind you. It's driving, as opposed to pointing a metal cacoon down the freeway.

Jerry, you're gonna love it!

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FM Former Member
Guys, come on....how many of you are actually engine builders?

Consider this...Porsche built a 2195 cc engine (2.2 liter) for the 1970-71 911 that had either 125 hp (911T), 155 hp (911E), or 180 hp (911S). All were the same size, but subsantially different inside. Think about that, from the T to the S, it added almost 50% more HP. And these were stock, factory built cars. With some minor modifications, these engines can put out a RELIABLE 220+ hp.

So, for now, I will go with what the engine builders and the dyno charts say.

-Bob Saville
FM Former Member
Jerry,

You will be amazed at how much torque (and horsepower) your 2332 makes. While it is probably way more power than anyone needs, good for you that you went for it, you will be really happy.

Robert,

I am not an engine builder. If I were, I probably would be right here saying how your 170HP seems about right. The fact is, your engine is not making 170HP. As far as your Dyno sheet goes, try this on for size. Next SEMA show, take your Dyno sheet with you and wave it in front of a few builders. When they quit laughing, if you can find one to take you seriously, ask him why he was laughing so hard, it may cost you lunch, but at least you won't go around making a fool of yourself in public forums.

Look I own a CB built 2110, it is a wonderful engine. Since I have started a conversion to Electronic Fuel Injection on this engine I have gotten a chance to take a closer look at the engine and it is a fabulous engine build, period. My 2110 makes tons of torque and lot's more HP than I can legally use. If my 2110 makes a real world 140HP I will eat my felt hat.

The numbers builders produce from their dynos are to sell engines. They produce these numbers because everyone else is producing these numbers. The fact is they are all inflated.

Just leave the HP claims off your advertisements and you will be a lot closer to being an honest car salesman. Just say something like, I drove this CB 2110 and it had fabulous HP, great torque and took my breath away, all of which will probably be true. Tell me you are making 170HP on your 2110 and you are just another huckster pushing plastic cars.
B BigPower
Mr Leader and Mr Steele, This is what is in his engine. No hype no false advertisement to sell engines.
2110cc
44x37.5 044 heads hand ported with matching manifolds. Heads flow 206 CFM at 25"
CB #2288 cam 308 degrees duration .385 lift at the cam
CB 1.4 ratio rockers
1-5/8 custom full merged exhaust
Dual 48IDF Weber carbs

Take those flow numbers on the heads and the engine displacement to Sema. Find someone that has a horsepower calculator or better yet someone that knows air flow of cylinder heads. Ask them the H-P potential of these cylinder heads. Maybe you can post your findings on this thread when you have your proof.
Pat Downs
FM Former Member
My opinion:
Smacks of advertising to me. Technically you may be an owner, but you also sell these cars to make a living = conflict of interest.

HP and Torque numbers are a whatever. What to post some valuable numbers, go to the track and race your car, then post photos of your time slips. Or if you must, take your car to a tuner and get a rear wheel HP number from a run on their dyno.

For reference, my 2332, with carbs set up using a dyno/exhaust gas analyzer computer, with hand ported heads (by Darren K), an 86b, and a tuned exhaust gives 165 rear wheel HP and a 12.9 1/4.
FM Former Member
Pat, since you posted your opinion for everyone to see, I will answer your post (and your email) here where everyone can see and be the judge.

I own one of your engines. Let me start by reiterating that you build a fine engine. I have gotten a chance to take it part way apart in a totally optional project and I have to say, it is a fine piece of engine building. Now the rest of the story.

On the subject of HP let's start with your Dyno numbers. My engine is a 2110cc CB engine. It is one of three largely identical engines you produced within days (I assume) of each other.

Each of these engines came with Dyno sheets. The strange thing about these dyno sheets is they were almost identical. I mean the numbers throughout were within tenths of each other in both Torque and HP in every RPM noted. I am not an engine builder, but I have raced cars in SCCA for years and have spent lots of hours standing in a test cell in front of a Dyno watching my engines being tested. Anyone that tells me they can produce three discrete engines run them on separate days and come up with the exact same numbers, well their dyno numbers are just not credible.

To get further into your credibility, given that you brought it up.

When I first started driving my new CB 2110, I had a mid-range stumble I could not seem to locate. I called you and you asked what jets I had in my engine? You know, the jets you had in it when you did my Dyno run. I looked and told you 50 Idle, 135 Main and 175 Air Jet. You said, change to 60 Idle Jets and if that does not fix it, install a 150 Main Jets that will fix the problem. I dutifully followed your advice to no avail. About $100 dollars in jets later I finally decided to buy a jet gauge. Come to find out, my engine came from CB with jets that were marked 50 Idle and 135 Mains, but were in fact reamed out to 60 Idle and 150 Mains. So my weeks of dicking around with jets were in fact caused by you not knowing what jets the engine had in it in the first place. Finally, I discovered my float levels were completely fouled up from the factory and when adjusted properly, the engine ran flawlessly.

So Pat, to sum it up, I believe in general you build a great engine, I love mine now. I would recommend your engines to anyone considering a Type I VW (in fact I have twice in the last few months), but for me to believe either your Dyno numbers or for that matter your veracity that you even know what jets you put in the motors you ship, well that would be a little too big a stretch.

As I said in my first post, people can believe whatever they want about their "HP" numbers. I think if they are in the quest of happiness, they would be better served looking at how well their engine ran and if it made them happy, rather than leaning on some arbitrary "Dyno Sheet"
B BigPower
I remember those engines. I ran all three on the same day. All three engines were built exactly the same. You are correct in pointing out that no engine makes the same amount of power. When cnc heads are used on all three engines, the same test exhaust, cams degreed the same, horsepower numbers tend to be very close, and many times identicle. This is not the point though. You stated this persons engine does not make the power he claims. How can you say that without any proof? You didn't even know what parts were used in his engine. I dont think you are some sort of human horsepower calculator, or are you? Please don't take offense to what I am saying, but I think you are in the wrong for your statement towards this person.
FM Former Member
Robert, after reading Pat Downs posts, I believe an apology is in order to you. You obviously posted your specs on one of your demos cars based on the information you received from CB (although in his email Pat told me was it was 168HP not 170HP, just thought you might want to know the exact CB Dyno number).

I apologize for intimating that you may just be another huckster pushing plastic cars. You obviously are very enthused about the product you have to sell and by the sound of your impressions, have a lot to be excited about. Again, I apologize to you for attacking your veracity.

What I won't apologize for is what I believe with regard to the HP claims engine builders throw around in the ongoing quest for a bigger piece of a microscopic market.

I have a CB 2110 that my Dyno sheet says makes 148HP. I have driven scores of race cars on race tracks with varying power to weight ratios. I will stand by my statement; if my CB 2110 that supposedly made 148HP on the CB Dyno makes a real world 140HP I will eat my felt hat. If you asked me what I thought my engine made, I would tell you honestly about 130-135HP.

Again, to get back to reality, what HP numbers your engine makes (or your engine builder says it makes) is largely irrelevant. The torque the engine makes and how flat the curve is all that really matters for our applications. In reality, an even more important factor for driving pleasure in our application is if the engine runs well, stays together and does not leak. In this measure my CB 2110 does great (well 2 out of three anyway).

There is an old saying in race car circles. Horse Power sells engines, but it is Torque that wins races. Seems the more things change the more they stay the same.
FM Former Member
I think there is a really good way to settle this. Next speedstah/spyder rendezvous, let's put our cars on a chassis dyno. Not the roller kind, the kind where you take the drive wheels off and bolt it to the machine (forgot the name of this type...). With this type of dyno, there is no drum slippage which skews the numbers.

Then let 'em rip. No excuses, no boloney. What an engine makes on an engine dyno at peak is really not relevant, its just bragging rights. What really matters is the power/torque curve and the real world driveability. I would run screaming from a 170hp engine that overheated in traffic, balked and stumbled while driving and blew up without warranty at 6,000 miles. (i've been there, done that...) You would be much better off with say 120-150 hp, exhilirating throttle response, good traffic manners and 20-30,000 mile lifespan. Right? And this is coming from a dedicated horsepower junkie. Remember that in a 1500 lb car, 150 hp is 10 to 1 which is generally considered 'muscle car' territory.
angela (power nut)
Nolan-TennesseeNolan-Tennessee
Open questions to any Brits out there. Many years ago I was stationed in Germany and drove an Austin Healey 100/6. Since my wife is English we would often drive to Cambridge using the car ferry from either Calais or Oestend Belgium. On the English side I was asked for the HP of the engine to determine the price of the ferry ticket. When I didn't know, the ticket agent checked his book and said the Healey was rated at 25 brake HP. I never did find out what brake HP is, any help? And Vince, I know that HP is a brand of canned beans in England so no joke about f--t power.
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