Beck Speedster rear drum brake work and info that might help others :)

EXCELLENT catch on your noise & fix! Thanks for sharing that tech tip, Nick! 

Looks like you're wading in with both feet, Nick; way to go! And just so you know, you can use those later shoes with your drums- I haven't done it but I've read that it improves braking significantly! Swap the backing plates for 68-79 pieces with the matching 40mm shoes (and springs, spacers and everything else), replace the wheel cylinders (I know, too bad I didn't tell you about this before) with 22mm front cylinders and have the friction surface of your drums machined 1/4" wider. The person who posted this on another forum claimed the rear brakes would be 50% more effective. The only down side I can see is the thermal overload (brake fade) point hasn't really changed, as the the drum is still the same size and can't absorb any more heat than before. Anybody know anything about the shoe size in rear early type 3 drum assemblies? I know the later (4x130) type 3 rear brakes are bigger- the shoes are (I believe) wider than the 40mm late beetle shoes and the drums are about 1" bigger diameter.. Things used the 5x205mm bolt pattern- wonder what size shoes the rear drums used?

Yeah, every Speedster owner should own the appropriate Bentley manual for their year donor car. Al

Thanks for bringing up that bit about the year of brake parts needed.  I think Carey wants me to do an update on the manual and I'll be sure to add that piece of info.

I saw that post the other day. Very intriguing! After reading everyone's responses, I too think I'd go with a rear disc conversion over doing this as you'd have much more friction surface area with rotors vs a drum.

BTW, here's another post on the same topic from a few years back.

Speaking of which, anyone have any rear disc conversion kits they recommend? What does Beck use if they do disc on the rear? Will it affect wheel offset? Any links, cost, info would be greatly appreciated! That might be a project to undertake in a year or so from now.

Nice! I'd love to get a copy if you guys update the manual. Keep me posted! 

Good job!  This is a keeper and I think it should be added to the knowledge base.  

A brake job (front and rear) is my winter project so I am sure this will help. Thanks 

Thanks for reminding me, Nick! I'd forgotten about that thread. Al

Great directions----such step by step is rare and welcome!  Good job---even a list of tools and supplies needed to do the job.

Nick - Check with Carey Hines about which disk replacement kit he'd recommend.

Any added offset with a rear disc brake kit is something you want to avoid.  I just looked at wide 5 rear disc kits at CB and Aircooled and neither site listed any information on changes in offset with their kits.

Actually, it looks like Aircooled and CB sell the same kit.

Rear disc brakes rather than drums---great improvement in handling and safety.

Whatever you do, get the one piece steel hubs from So Cal imports rather than the two piece ones that come in the CB Performance ones.  I had two of these separate where the aluminum hub was made with a steel insert and have read of other's similar problems with them.  The So Cal hubs are a direct replacement for the ones in the CB kit---my car used the CB Perf kit # 4641 Rear disc brake kit

and the part number for the So Cal hubs was 113615601DNS @ $84.95 each.

It was no fun driving from Richmond to Hot Springs with those separated hubs!  The new ones weigh more but I can't tell a bit of difference in the car's power.

Nick:

If the e-brake actuator lever was wrong on the left, then, when you install the correct actuator lever then you'll also need a left e-brake push bar (left and right are mirror-images).  Few places seem to sell them.  Even fewer places actually install them these days - they just install a right side push bar upside down and say "Gud 'Nuff!"  Well, they are different and everything fits better when you use the right stuff.

I have been wondering about that! Do you have a link to order the correct parts? Everyone online says that you just flip them upside down like this...

and...

The spring clip doesn't seat correctly if you just flip it upside down though. So based on what you're saying, in these photos, only the left side one is correct?

No matter what we do to drum brakes, they will never be as good as discs. There's always the problem of disc brake kits adding width to the rear wheelbase, though. To use either 914 or vented 944 discs requires using type 3 rear hubs, which add 5/8" to each side, and I believe the aftermarket rear discs available do the same (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), so with our cars this is an issue.

That said, I posted the wider shoe install/modification for those not ready to step up to discs but wanting an improvement. There also used to be semi metallic brake shoes available from Kymko, which people said were an improvement again, but I don't see them on the Samba at the moment

Here they are- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/cla...detail.php?id=846684

By the way Nick... LOVE the white walls/ color combination.  

I was starting the feel like the odd duck in the forum rockimg the  white walls.

thanks for the step by step.  Very useful!

cheers,

Luis

Thanks! Yeah, the white walls are a nice touch IMHO. They are kinda a pain to keep clean, but lovely to look at

YES.....you can use a right push bar on both sides.  The spring and its' clip will fit a little funky, on top of the bump, but they'll work and won't fall apart.

I had a very hard time finding a proper left bar and finally found one in a salvage yard.  Use the right for now, and see if you can find a left one for future replacement (no hurry).

In those 2 pics I posted above, which one is the correct part? I thought the left one was and the right one was incorrectly flipped upside down (so the bump is facing up)? If so, that would imply that I have 2 left pieces and need to find a correct right piece.

Either way, I plan on hitting up Austin Veedub's salvage yard today to see if I can find that elusive part!

Sounds like you've got it figured out, Nick. As Gordon said, in a pinch the right spacer bar flipped over will work until you can find the left side piece. 

I have a set of 4x130mm type 3 rear brakes in the garage, and the drums measure 9 3/4" diameter (3/4" bigger than type 1), and the shoes are a little wider than the late model 40mm type 1 units, 1 3/4" (44 1/2mm).

I wanted to edit my original post to put this all together, but it appears I can't. Sorry this is disjointed, but here's the update and some more instructions and photos...

Replacing the wheel cylinders

I recommend you buy the German ATE rear wheel cylinders, they’re quality and only $30 each.

1. When you get your new wheel cylinders, there will be 2 rubber caps that come with each cylinder (one for the bleeder screw/valve and one for where the brake line goes in). Pull both off and SAVE these.

2. Get a bucket and some cardboard and put your gloves on. Things are about to get dirty.

3. Loosen the nut that holds the brake line into the cylinder. Don’t unscrew it all the way, just enough to where it’s easier to get off.

4. Remove the bolt that is holding the wheel cylinder in place.

5. Get that rubber cap ready and make sure you have your bucket under the wheel cylinder.

6. Finish unscrewing the brake line and QUICKLY cap off the line with the rubber cap from the new wheel cylinder.

7. Screw in the bolt that holds the new wheel cylinder in place.

8. Pull the rubber cap off the brake line and carefully reattach it as quickly as you can. Yes you will get brake fluid all over your gloves and likely your tools.

9. Clean up the area with Brakleen, but be careful not to spray it directly on any rubber.

Bleeding the brake line

I found a really useful how to make a brake bleeder video that you should watch! I was able to find all the parts from Home Depot for very cheap. Well worth it! I went out and bought 2 more jack stands so that I could have a total of 4 so I could take off ALL my wheels and bleed the front and rear brake lines. Lastly, I personally think it’s cheapest and best to bleed your brakes with 2 people and this DIY kit above. One person will push and release the brakes while the other opens and closes the bleeder screw/valve. Here’s how I did it…

1. Jacked up each side of the rear (anywhere on the 3” tubular steel frame), then put a jack stand on the lowest setting.

2. Jacked up a little more, then put the rear jack stands up 2 clicks from the lowest setting. I did this b/c all of the weight is in the back of the car. I couldn’t find a good center jacking position on my Beck and I didn’t want to torque my 3” tubular steel frame by going up too high at one time.

3. Jack the front left side near the wheel and both sides will come up (front is VERY light).

4. Slide 2 jack stands under the front.

5. Remove the wheels

6. Remove the bleeder screw/valve caps

7. Start farthest from the master cylinder (rear right, then do rear left, front right, front left)

8. My rear bleeder screw is 7mm, my fronts are 10mm. Check yours and get the appropriate wrenches on hand

9. Attach your home made bleeder to the bleeder screw and put a zip tie just after the lip, but before the nut so you don’t get any outside air bleeding in.

10. Attach your wrench

11. Tell your helper to get in the car and await your instruction

12. Open the bleeder valve, have your helper push the brakes (DO NOT release the brakes until you close the bleeder valve or air will be sucked back in the line)

13. Close the bleeder valve, have your helper release the brakes.

14. Repeats steps 12/13 until you don’t see any bubbles coming out of your hose.

15. Be sure you check brake fluid reservoir frequently. You don’t want this thing running dry. If it does, you have to start all over.

16. Once you’re done with the rear right, remove the hose and repeat the process for the rear left, then front right and lastly front left.

Putting your lug and axle nuts back on

1. Take this time to clean off the back side of your wheels. I just use soap, water and an old sponge.

2. Put each wheel on the lugs and hand tighten the nuts. NEVER tighten anything while your car is on jack stands. It’s just too risky IMHO.

3. Remove the jack stands in the reverse order you put them up.

4. My Beck Speedster has 5 lug patterned wheels and the specs for those call for 72 ft lbs of torque to be applied to the lug nuts. If you over tighten these, you can damage the drums! Be careful.

5. As you may recall from above, I bought a 300lb torque wrench (¾” drive) for $80 from Harbor Freight. Well, now is where it’s used! Set the torque to 217 ft lbs and get after it. Honestly, it wasn’t that hard to do. I had to go a little more to make sure the castle nut lined up with the holes for my cotter pin to fit through.

6. Slide in a new cotter pin and fold it over.

7. You’re done!

Hope you guys find this useful

Again, I am not a mechanic. Just a hobbyist who’s interested in learning and helping others. I’ve learned alot from the speedsterowners.com forums over the years and I thought it was time to give back. Hope you’ve found this useful. Happy driving!!

Well done, Nick! I take it they work well?

It was a long painful journey, but in the end all works well! 

EXCELLENT!!!

Great write-up, btw.

The way I remember which way to move the adjusters is that to tighten the shoes is Lower Left, Raise Right.  The alteration is a memory aid.  Loosening is the opposite.

Should be "alliteration".  Whoops.

I have 4-bolt Type 1 drums now.

Is it accurate to say that 4-bolt Type 3 drums would not increase the track?

They will increase the rear track, Michael, 5/8" per side, so make sure you have fender clearance before even looking for parts. Is your car swingaxle or irs?

It is IRS and I only have about 1/4" clearance now on the driver's side.

Just to be clear, you are talking about the Type 3 drums increasing the track and not discs.

Thanks, as always, for your reply.

Yes, Michael, I was talking about type 3 hubs. Unfortunately all the disc brakes I've seen either use a type 3 hub (914) or with aftermarket brakes the hub is an integral part with the disc, but it still ends up increasing the rear track that same 5/8" each side. Your trailing arms can be narrowed 1" per side though...

FYI, I ended up putting 40mm wide front shoes in the rear drums where the 30mm shoes came out of. They fit with just a tiny bit of machining of the drums by a brake lathe. No widening of the track at all.

Now I have the Airkewld rear discs, wide5, with Ebrake. I have short axles if that makes a difference. Not any wider than stock drums at all, fitment on these is perfect. The brake hose length supplied is too short for my Vintage Spyder, but that was easily fixed with new hoses. And I mounted the calipers at the 12 o'clock position so the bleeders were straight up, but that is personal preference. The rear kit is VERY nice, as is the front.

The front one does widen the track(with 4-piston calipers), but I worked out a solution for that. Just giving info for anyone who decides to go all 4 discs. The master cylinder they supply gives a nice firm and high pedal. I have to say they give me the confidence to drive harder than I ever have. They work VERY well, no fade at all, not even at the track.

Now I have the Airkewld rear discs, wide5, with Ebrake.

DannyP -It sounds as though you are happy with the Airkewld brakes.  They must have changed since I bought mine from them over two years ago.  All I got was junk and promises, missing parts, bad manufacturing, no replies to e-mail and more junk.  My rear disc brakes still don't work to this day.  I have hundreds of measurements, videos and alternate shops trying to fix them.  Glad you didn't have my experience.

craig

Just so you guys with swing axles know-

Short axle/short spline axles and tubes (26 11/16", out of '66 and earlier beetles) are 1 1/8" shorter than axles (and the matching tubes) out of a '67 bug and 1 3/4" shorter than '68 and newer beetle (for those of us that didn't get irs 'till later) and all swing type 3. I don't know the measurements of the short vs the long spline sections (that would be the easiest way to know if your car has earlier vs the 2 later versions), but I think I know who to ask...

Irs trailing arms can be narrowed (I think) as much as 1 3/8", but it's more work than just unbolting and bolting in new axles and tubes, as it involves cutting loose, moving and then welding the stub axle bearing carriers. You'll need shorter axles to make it work. 

Craig, you and a few others.....

Mine came with zero missing parts, and bolted right up, no muss, no fuss. Maybe he changed/refined the CNC machining specs? The powder-coated caliper brackets are beautiful.