Before I get too far into this little task........

Bob- The aftermarket padded transaxle mount is not very helpful for a street car; it was designed for keeping the front nose cone/mount from breaking when jumping dune buggies and they generally don't limit enough movement on a street car to totally eliminate wheel hop. You're much better off with a Berg style mid mount. Sorry the pic is upside down. 

The pic in the Haynes manual is (as you'd surmised) of the rear trans mounts and unless the engine is out you can't get at them. You could try supporting the engine/trans as a unit and loosen the yoke bolts (below the rear mounts). I'm not sure how that would work though.

Bob,

I know you don't want to hear this but ...since you are this far into mix of things , I suggest pulling the motor and trans, making those repairs including all axle boots and taking a detailed look n' see at everything else including the clutch, T/ O bearing, cables hoses etc.  Peace of mind is the reward.  ~Alan

Alan's right, much as I hate to imply that you should do the whole noodle.  When I was a kid and after destroying my front mount with about 30 hard launches too many, I thought I could replace the front mount just by disconnecting the shift coupler, then remove the two tranny bolts and slide engine/tranny back enough on a floor jack to replace the front mount.  That was on a '57 VW sedan with swing arms.  I think Al Gallo used this approach last year on his Speedster and was successful, too.

While it worked for me and Gallo, as Al Merklin (too many "Als, here) suggests, for all you have to remove on your car to get things to slide back, it's probably easier to just pull the engine and transaxle and change it.  While it's out, check out everything and fix/upgrade whatever needs it and you'll be ready for another ten years or so.

Super easy to replace the front mount with everything out of the way.

If you want "bullet proof", get a Gene Berg mid mount. I also use OE Type 2 rear mounts.

Thank you gentlemen. I appreciate your sage advice.

Yeah, we're sages.....                           

                                     Just a little off-kilter:

(Must be from all that "Panama Red"......)

Glenn Ring posted:

If you want "bullet proof", get a Gene Berg mid mount. I also use OE Type 2 rear mounts.

 

Glenn, could you please advise the difference between Type 1 and 2 rear mounts ? Thanks.

Suspect that its because T2 cases have extra threaded bosses around the oil pump for the OEM rear mount (many universal replacement cases have them too).  OEM T1 cases don't have the extra threads in case.

Correct, it is a "universal" case and can be used in a Type 1, Type 2 and Type 3 application.

It also have the oil fill for the Type 3 at the bottom right.

Glenn....I noticed your conventional traction bar in your photo. Does this work for you as far as eliminating wheel hop ?  My car is already able to bottom out on the rear when I negotiate steep driveways so I chose to go a different way  and maintain the same ground clearance by using those type 2 threaded bosses around the oil pump. The outer ends of my bar probably attach to the same place that your bar does and I couldn't keep my heater boxes the same as you.  I haven't had a chance to "Test" it yet but I'm pretty sure it will work. Anyway...here's a photo............Bruce

The "traction bar" needs solid metal to mount to.

For a fiberglass car, i'd recommend one of the many different "Kafer Bars" that triangulate between the upper shock mounts and the ends of the frame horns.

Bob - I'm only 20 miles away. Yell if you need help.  Removing a VW engine is a 2 (old) man job. 

In Bruce's original thread he points out that behind that fiberglass heat shield is the 2x2" steel sub-frame used by near all VW pan based Speedsters.  He also has a rubber insulator at the ends.  His solution is a real piece of engineering art.  It even protects the extended sump.  Bruce if you ever produce them - they would sell.  

Al Gallo and I found that, pulling a VW engine is a 1-man, 1-hour, 1-beer job.

If you have two (old) men, then it takes all afternoon and a case of beer......

Back in the day, while enjoying clutch problems w my old B coupe. I could get the engine in or out by myself in about 15 mins. Just sayin . . . the tool of choice was/is a 17 mm ratchet box end wrench. Just guessing it was 17 mm. That and a floor jack, of course.

One man... and i'm 60.

Gordon Nichols posted:

Al Gallo and I found that, pulling a VW engine is a 1-man, 1-hour, 1-beer job.

If you have two (old) men, then it takes all afternoon and a case of beer......

Some make it a 20+ year job...

Glenn...Yup that photo of your traction bar at the frame mounts looks too flimsy. From the looks of it, it's hard to tell if it's mounted to steel or F-glass. Also your frame looks different from the frame on my VS.  I have a kafer triangulated truss bar and an intermediate front tranny support and still got wheel hop, hence, I made the traction bar at the rear of the engine.

Wolfgang......I don't know if it would sell all that much because many people want to keep their heaters and this bar eliminates that possibility. Also it may be limited to those who have VS cars or similar frame systems

  I do have the wooden template which is a bolt- in, working pattern if anyone wants to borrow it to make one for themselves.........Bruce

Glenn, I really appreciate your presence here. I always like seeing your posts on theSamba.

Glenn's car is a 1974 Beetle (the whole thing), and his hanger brackets are attached to steel body work just above the bumper mounts.

^^^^^^^^

What he said. Sorry, I have a steel body Beetle. But i've worked on a few Speedster replicas.

The traction bar/engine support is simple, inexpensive, easy to install, time tested (been around since the late, '60's or very early '70's) and works very well on a stock height beetle. Properly preloaded and combined with a mid-mount (which Berg invented to stop destroying the front mount/nose cone on front wheels-up drag race launches in their race car), wheel hop (which breaks transaxles) will be a thing of the past. Berg's copyrighted instructions say to "draw up the engine 1/4"- this will preload the engine/transaxle, taking all the flex out of the mounts and frame horns". I'm not sure, though, if the rear frames in our Speedsters will support that without causing the door misalignment problems that some of you have had to remedy.

Many Speedsters are also running around with lower than stock suspensions, and along with the issue above, a kafer bar (to stabilize the whole rear of the car; I think you could even incorporate rear roll bar supports so a bar would be truly functional) and mid-mount, with what Bruce and Stan have built seems to be (I think) a more elegant solution. By using the attachment points at the rear of a universal case, ground clearance isn't compromised (you still have to worry about the sump, if so equipped), you can build around almost any exhaust available, and (as both Bruce and Stan have proven) it can look like a much more purposefully engineered piece. Al

PS- As much as I like what Bruce has created (and if you haven't been able to tell by my responses in Bruce's thread on the building of his rear mount, I like it a lot!), I think it's something that has to be custom fitted to each car. With there being several manufacturers of the cars themselves (and no standard height for the rear horizontal frame surrounding the engine compartment) and the myriad of different exhaust configurations available (and almost all of them available with and without heater boxes) there's simply no "one size fits all".

Another PS- Good to see you over here, Glenn- a little slow over at that other site?

Glenn's rear trans mounts are oe type 2 (available from  a number of suppliers). They're a little firmer than the type 1 pieces, without transferring a lot of noise into the passenger area.

Not slow... just passing by.

Agreed, the Kafer Bar does not decrease ground clearance and for a fiberglass car with no solid place to mount a traction bar, it's the best solution. The Berg mid mount is totally stabilizes the front of the tranny in all 3 axis, while the padded tranny strap is just a band-aid.  I can tell you the combo i have totally eliminated wheel hop and that's with a ZF LSD so both wheels are spinning.

Trust me, the last thing you want is to smack your deep sump on the pavement.

Also there's no loss of energy, all your power is put to moving the car forward.

Well, after significant grunting and groaning I got the front tranny mount in. Popped out the rear engine tin, disconnected everything as though pulling the engine. jack under the engine, jack under the transmission. Loosened the bolts holding the oxbow like extra transmission support. Backed off the big 1 1/16" bolts that go into the frame horns  about 1"after removing the camber compensator. Pried everything aft as far as possible and just got the front mount in by a hair.

Now working on the the rear mounts. pulled the engine back as though removing it. Dropped the bracket that the rear mounts attach to and mocked them up.

Waiting on the return of a customized 13mm box wrench that will have a bend about 1" down the shaft. My neighbor is putting the heat to one of mine an getting the bend in it.That allows me to lock on the nuts attached to the bolts that secure the mounts to the housing by placing it between the flywheel and the bell housing at the nut. That way, I can put the new mounts on without completely dropping the engine. It is back far enough I can inspect everything in the bell housing visually and check the flywheel. If I need to pull the engine I will but I don't see anything that isn't copacetic.

Should have the new axle boots and the low profile sump here by Thursday and then I can button it up.

If I can do this kind of stuff anybody can.

Don't sell yourself short, Bob. I knew you could do it!

I'm impressed ....well done !

Thanks Stan and Alan.

Below is a photo of one side of the brace/bracket with the mounts mocked up. I assume the best way to get this back in is to finish attaching the mounts with the downward facing bolts in. Mount the whole thing to the top part of the brace/bracket that is still in the car in one piece then button up the engine.Which should make mating the actual trans mounts to the trans a cinch. 

I don't see another way to do it. Is there a better way?

Glenn Ring posted

 

" the last thing you want is to smack your deep sump on the pavement."

 

 

Glenn has come up with the title to the next great country / western song. Add a dog, a train, a reference to a cheating spouse and liquor  in the lyrics and you are there.

Great job, Bob, it's really coming along. I don't know if it makes any difference, but a mechanic friend (owned a VW shop and taught me most of everything I know about these cars, and a fair bit about how to hang out, waste time and drink beer; RIP Don) told me that when attaching the rear trans mounts to the yoke the bolts always go up. I'm not sure why. Al

PS- Maybe because that way it's easier to get a socket on the bolt head if it's mounted from the bottom?

Thanks, ALB. It's been an adventure.

There must be some trick to this that I'm not getting:

Attached the mount to the housing and then tried to attach the bracket to the mounts. I then would have put the large bolts back into the framehorns, attached the upper bracket to the lower bracket and moved ahead in putting the engine back in.

However, the lower bracket simply won't go back on. I think the two downward bolts in each of the mounts just don't line up doing it that way.

So, I tried attaching the mounts to the bracket itself and attaching the whole thing to the housing. Similar problem.

There is a trick to this. The mounts themselves fit the housing fine, and fit the bracket fine. It's when I try to join all of it together that I run into trouble.

Perhaps I'm doing this in the wrong order or I haven't chanted the right mantra.

Anybody with experience have a suggestion?

I had the same problem. All bolts/studs loose, then wiggle it together. The mounts are on slotted holes and that will give you just enough wiggle room.

So you put the mounts and the bracket together loosely and then mounted the whole thing to the housing? I tried it once but may not have spent enough time wiggling stuff into position. I just bought a new set of prybars and a rubber mallet.

Thanks

BobG posted:

Thanks, ALB. It's been an adventure.

There must be some trick to this that I'm not getting:

Attached the mount to the housing and then tried to attach the bracket to the mounts. I then would have put the large bolts back into the framehorns, attached the upper bracket to the lower bracket and moved ahead in putting the engine back in.

However, the lower bracket simply won't go back on. I think the two downward bolts in each of the mounts just don't line up doing it that way.

So, I tried attaching the mounts to the bracket itself and attaching the whole thing to the housing. Similar problem.

There is a trick to this. The mounts themselves fit the housing fine, and fit the bracket fine. It's when I try to join all of it together that I run into trouble.

Perhaps I'm doing this in the wrong order or I haven't chanted the right mantra.

Anybody with experience have a suggestion?

Remove the two rubber blocks from the bracket. Remove the two outer bolts from the rubber blocks. Attach the two rubber blocks to the transmission bellhousing. Hold the bracket up to the rubber blocks and put your bolts in from the bottom. That is, the nut should go between the outside of the transmission bellhousing and the rubber block.

Doing it any other way and you are trying to push the bolts sideways through their holes which is why it's impossible to fit.

Yup.....That's it.

I could not get enough movement to get the new front mount back in, so I remove those two bolts that are welded to the frame, and I put replaceable bolts in.

Not sure if that is good or bad, but it sure makes it easier to replace that mount! 

I also installed a mid trans mount and have not had any more problems. 

JustinH had the answer. That order of rebuilding the bracket, mounts etc. was all that worked. I also put the 27mm bolts back into the ends of the frame horns before I tried to snug anything up. That made a difference as it helps align everything. 166 ft lbs. of torque on the 27mm bolts.

Thanks Justin, Gordon, Alan and all the rest. 

Moving on to axle boots, fuel line replacement and getting the fuel filters re-positioned outside the engine bay. Then address exhaust. 

I assume that the best way to confirm clearance between the mount bolts/nuts and the flywheel is to re-attach the motor and then use a wrench to crank the engine. It looks fine but I don't want to have the problem Wolfgang had a few years ago when his wouldn't fire because the flywheel was blocked.