Bent windshield frame

A picture would help, but I suspect that you can easily fix it.  I have had to carefully squeeze mine back together a time or two.  It's soft aluminum.

EDIT: Doh!  Watched the video.  You'll need to work on it a bit.  Check the bolts under the dash first.  If the one on that side was loose it might allow the frame to move up.  That's the first thing to check.  I've found fitting the frame to be a real pain sometimes.  This is one of those things where it's easier to talk while you're doing it than to provide an exhaustive list of things to do.  Maybe Alan or Carey can steer you in the right direction more easily.  I'd be happy to answer questions via phone or text, if that'd help.

My experience with dozens of windshield frames that is a first. The frames are an extruded aluminum piece and quite stout. Skillfully trying to tap the frame back into shape with a rubber mallet would be nothing short of a miracle as the glass will surely break.         Best to get a replacement frame,  believe you have a Beck - as it needs to be an exact replacement match. You'll  need to duplicate / cut the angles at the bottom and tap for the post screws. But first ....address why you had so much tension on the top that it resulted in the frame being bent.

Sorry Cory, see my edit.

Lane Anderson posted:

A picture would help, but I suspect that you can easily fix it.  I have had to carefully squeeze mine back together a time or two.  It's soft aluminum.

EDIT: Doh!  Watched the video.  You'll need to work on it a bit.  Check the bolts under the dash first.  If the one on that side was loose it might allow the frame to move up.  That's the first thing to check.  I've found fitting the frame to be a real pain sometimes.  This is one of those things where it's easier to talk while you're doing it than to provide an exhaustive list of things to do.  Maybe Alan or Carey can steer you in the right direction more easily.  I'd be happy to answer questions via phone or text, if that'd help.

Thanks, Lane! 

The frame hasn't moved away from the body in whole. It is definitely pulled and bent only at the site of the most tension -- the latch.

Alan Merklin posted:

My experience with dozens of windshield frames that is a first. The frames are an extruded aluminum piece and quite stout. Skillfully trying to tap the frame back into shape with a rubber mallet would be nothing short of a miracle as the glass will surely break.         Best to get a replacement frame,  believe you have a Beck - as it needs to be an exact replacement match. You'll  need to duplicate / cut the angles at the bottom and tap for the post screws. But first ....address why you had so much tension on the top that it resulted in the frame being bent.

Thanks, Alan... Not surprised at your answer.

Though I'm very keen to learn the reason the top is so taut, I will address the top as soon as the windshield frame is replaced. The injury looks like crap, and, with a yearly rainfall total of 7 inches, I can put the top second on the agenda!

Looking forward to everyone's ideas on the top in a future thread!

RE replacing the frame -- I suppose I should order all new rubber as well, eh?

Hmmmm...

I wonder if a few CAREFUL taps with a rubber mallet might get it back to where it should be.  Any force must be in line with the glass or you're likely to break it.  Don't expect to have the glass fully seated in the rubber, but there shouldn't be a gap.  I'd swear my recent replacement glass was slightly shorter than the previous one.

Oh yeah... Should you ever get to a point where the top won't reach the windshield to latch, don't force it.  I have a tendency to leave mine down for a long time, which is ok when the temperature is consistent, but when the weather cools the top can shrink.  This past weekend I had to drive the BMW to Cars and Coffee because it was cold (well, for Charleston) and I could get the top up.  Leaving it erected (insert jokes here) for several hours (yeah, I know, can result in injury) allows it to stretch out, particularly if you put it in the sun and/or put some weight on the top.  This has happened to me twice recently due to changeable weather, so now I park it with the top up.

i wonder if I could split the difference between Alan's and Lane's ideas by removing the bent frame and trying to work it back into shape on the bench, away from the glass...

I could keep sliding the glass back into it to check its re-shaping.

If I try it, I suppose I'd be no worse off if it failed.

Maybe elves will come in the night.

As you can see, I'm having a slow night.   I think the frame itself looks fine unless there is some damage hidden somewhere.  Are both screws in the side of the post on the driver's side properly seated?  Something looks a bit funky about the gasket at the base of the post on that side, but I'd have to see it in the flesh to be sure.  Clean the goop off before you try anything.  You might be able to pull the rubber in the frame down to overlap on the glass, making it easier to getter frame re-seated.  I had to swap out the glass in my car this year, and it was, ahem, not fun.  I'm not 100% happy with the result in one spot, but it's good enough and I don't want to mess with it any more.

Like I said, it might be easiest to walk you through things over the phone as I suspect this will require a bit of trial and error.  PM me if you want to do that sometime.

It's not impossible but when you impact stretch extruded aluminum it tends to move i.e spread elsewhere and it gets worse as you go trying to get it shaped then you have a worthless pos to dispose of.(please don't inquire as to how I know this )   Yeah take it apart and see what you can do with it, can't get much worse....use a decent amount of protective tape and a rubber mallet with a tee shirt wrapped around it..........................  " This will be a true test of you fundamental fondling skills "

Wow too bad ... I often think about not leaving my top down too long for fear of shrinkage, and I make sure it dryes fully extended.

I guess you ll have to wait till your good and soaked  I mean your top before you put it up

Its no wonder they tell us not to hang onto the frame arrrgh

Hope Carey is looking 

ray

Lane Anderson posted:

As you can see, I'm having a slow night.   I think the frame itself looks fine unless there is some damage hidden somewhere.  Are both screws in the side of the post on the driver's side properly seated?  Something looks a bit funky about the gasket at the base of the post on that side, but I'd have to see it in the flesh to be sure.  Clean the goop off before you try anything.  You might be able to pull the rubber in the frame down to overlap on the glass, making it easier to getter frame re-seated.  I had to swap out the glass in my car this year, and it was, ahem, not fun.  I'm not 100% happy with the result in one spot, but it's good enough and I don't want to mess with it any more.

Like I said, it might be easiest to walk you through things over the phone as I suspect this will require a bit of trial and error.  PM me if you want to do that sometime.

 I appreciate all of the responses, Lane!  I know you're among the most experienced guys here!

The things that I know are these:

The frame and glass were in perfect shape, and in perfect position, before that fateful attaching of the top. 

 The frame supports remain firmly attached, and unmoved from their original positions. 

 The damage is definitely local -- about a 4 or 5-inch section of the frame (surrounding the attachment peg) has been pulled out of shape. 

 In a perfect world, it would seem that simply pushing the frame back to its original shape would solve my problem. 

 In Alan's experience, it seems that manipulating this extruded aluminum is easier thought about, than accomplished… 

Many sighs...

Cory I looked at your video a few times and can't see a kink anywhere so I'll assume it's a soft bend you are dealing with and if the aluminum was not stretched too much you could try to tackle it but it will take much patience and time vs buying a new one.                                                                                                                                                          I have full machine shop access 2 blocks from me so this is not a difficult fix with,  the right tooling however, this is how I would try to resolve the problem without the shop and not actually seeing it in person.                                                                          Disassemble the frame then making an accurate poster board tracing of the driver's side half of the glass radius and top edge line.  Transfer that to a piece of 1/4" plywood ( you can bend this a bit if needed) slitting a piece of rubber fuel line hose to slip over the 1/4" plywood. Then you can attempt to massage the tape protected frame with the tee shirt wrapped rubber mallet. You do not want to make marks on the frame as you'll be there forever fine sanding the dings and scratches them polishing the frame .

Alan Merklin posted:

Cory I looked at your video a few times and can't see a kink anywhere so I'll assume it's a soft bend you are dealing with and if the aluminum was not stretched too much you could try to tackle it but it will take much patience and time vs buying a new one.                                                                                                                                                          I have full machine shop access 2 blocks from me so this is not a difficult fix with,  the right tooling however, this is how I would try to resolve the problem without the shop and not actually seeing it in person.                                                                          Disassemble the frame then making an accurate poster board tracing of the driver's side half of the glass radius and top edge line.  Transfer that to a piece of 1/4" plywood ( you can bend this a bit if needed) slitting a piece of rubber fuel line hose to slip over the 1/4" plywood. Then you can attempt to massage the tape protected frame with the tee shirt wrapped rubber mallet. You do not want to make marks on the frame as you'll be there forever fine sanding the dings and scratches them polishing the frame .

Love this, Alan!

Essentially, making a wooden buck upon which to massage the frame back into shape.

If it works, it'll be a proud achievement!

Thanks for the plan!

Cory, I know nothing about working with these windshields and frames other than it requires some Voodoo skills to make them right.

BUT... I did some frame grabs from your video, rescaled the images to try to get both sides about the same size, and put the two together so others could compare one side with the other.

It looks like something on the driver's side may have moved at the base. The rubber looks like the frame may have moved over it and cut into it at some point (possibly when the windshield was first installed, but maybe when this happened). And it looks like the rubber at the very bottom may have been pulled out from its original placement (compared to the passenger side).

At any rate, this might help the experts to a better diagnosis.

(Click on the photo for more detail.)

If you apply pressure in the opposite way to what distorted it, the frame will return to where it was. The tight top latch, presumably, pulled it mostly back, not up. Check that first.

What probably happened, when the frame distorted rearward, is the radius bend on the top driver's side flattened out slightly and pulled inward. This would be possible if the glass does not reach quite to the edge of the rubber mounting gasket—which, indeed, it shouldn't. With the frame distorted, the glass will be closer to, if not touching, the edge in that corner. And that's where you'll have trouble if you go hitting on it. 

I would not hit it with a mallet, wrapped or not. I would try to move it, ever-so gently, but firmly, with something as much like the top latch as I could fabricate. Try to create tension the opposite way, maybe with a rope or a tie-down strap. It should not take much to get it moving. Clean out that goop first completely and then put some dish soap in and around the gasket and the glass where the gap is. You want it to slide back in nice and smoove-like.

My two cents, worth what you paid.

All of this sounds great, but the metal of the frame has already fatigued, meaning that if you get it back to the original shape, you still have a fatigued piece of metal that is softer than the original shape and will more easily bend given any latch force in the future.  You could carefully reshape and then heat treat it to keep its' shape, but that's beyond the abilities of most backyard shops these days.  That said, it's just gonna stretch outta shape again.

Keep the top down this "winter" (I know.... It's geography relative) and save up for a new windshield top frame (they're not that expensive), they're pretty easy to install (we'll help, even!) and THEN we'll walk you through soaking the top and fatigue/stretching your current top to fit (see Lane's post above) and then you'll be good to go and chase down "Jackalopes", top up or down.  

Que bueno?

Tom Blankinship posted:

@chines1


>

The doesn't look like it worked Lane.

@chines1

Take a screwdriver, remove the two screws in the windshield post.  Are they secure?  Threads stripped? Broken off?

Check the bolt under the dash that holds the windshield post to the dash.  Tight?

It appears that something has moved where the frame attaches to the post and dash.  I have a tough time imagining that the shape of the frame distorted from pulling on the latch.  I think the entire frame has been pulled away from the dash of the car. 

Conclusion:  All suggestions are possibles and need to be investigated to know what to do. It's nothing short of a miracle that the glass didn't break.

Sell it!

Gosh, I wish this were happening in May, in Carlisle... How I'd love to watch you guys in action!

Well it probably won't rain in Phoenix until May, so you could just wait.  Use some blue painter's ape to secure it and drive it to Carlisle so we can fix it.  Just a thought. 

After looking at the pictures Mitch posted I am beginning to think that the post may have pulled up a bit.  the gap between the frame and the bottom strip seems larger on that side, and the gasket under the post appears to have pulled out a bit.  Check to see if you can tighten the nut on the bottom of the post under the dash.  You'll have to temporarily remove the hose to the defroster vent to get to it.  Expect back pain before you're done under the dash.  Ask me how I know. 

As for being one of the most experienced guys here...  nah.  I just talk a good game, although I have learned a lot in the last 10+ years with mine.  Wanna talk brass thingies?

Make sure the sleeve (has angled cut) over the post bolt is lined up properly before gently tightening.

The guys above are correct.  You can see in this screen shot from your video that the end post rubber seal is rolled over, so if the end post itself is sitting down on the body, it did pull up or rock backwards quite a bit in order for the seal to roll over.   Likewise I can see the end of the aluminum upper track is sitting about 1/2" to 3/4" higher than it should and the lower rubber is now under the end of the upper frame instead of in front of it.  My suggestion would be to a) get a new windshield frame, and b) do a wet stretch on the top.  And, like you said, if your "fallback" plan is a new frame, then straightening it might be worth a shot...

Sacto Mitch posted:

 

Cory, I know nothing about working with these windshields and frames other than it requires some Voodoo skills to make them right.

BUT... I did some frame grabs from your video, rescaled the images to try to get both sides about the same size, and put the two together so others could compare one side with the other.

It looks like something on the driver's side may have moved at the base. The rubber looks like the frame may have moved over it and cut into it at some point (possibly when the windshield was first installed, but maybe when this happened). And it looks like the rubber at the very bottom may have been pulled out from its original placement (compared to the passenger side).

At any rate, this might help the experts to a better diagnosis.

(Click on the photo for more detail.)

 

 

Thanks, Mitch, for taking care to get these screen-grabs!  It's all making sense now, and it looks like I might have a new frame in my future...  I'll check under the body and see what's happened there, and also attempt Alan Merklin's wooden-buck-and-rubber-mallet solution on the old frame.  

chines1 posted:

 

The guys above are correct.  You can see in this screen shot from your video that the end post rubber seal is rolled over, so if the end post itself is sitting down on the body, it did pull up or rock backwards quite a bit in order for the seal to roll over.   Likewise I can see the end of the aluminum upper track is sitting about 1/2" to 3/4" higher than it should and the lower rubber is now under the end of the upper frame instead of in front of it.  My suggestion would be to a) get a new windshield frame, and b) do a wet stretch on the top.  And, like you said, if your "fallback" plan is a new frame, then straightening it might be worth a shot...

Thanks, Carey!  Always appreciate your input here!

Unfortunately, I don't think my top was installed by your hardworking boys in Bremen. I believe you sold it as a roller...  I'll post a photo later, but the back of my top (where it snaps) is actually GLUED to the body.  There's some kind of god-awful adhesive holding it to the glass, so I'm in for a circus in getting the top off to wet-stretch it.

That's for another time.  Right now, I want to get my windshield back to perfect.  I'll give Alan Merklin's wooden-buck-and-rubber-mallet solution a try, but you'll probably be hearing from me for a frame...

Cheers!

Regarding previous post to @chines1, when I said the top was secured by adhesive to "the glass," I meant secured to the fiberglass itself, behind the seats and around the snaps."

 By this time Corey you now know that these cars need sorting when you get them in all sorts of ways... You'll get there in the end   

The "glued to the body" part is standard Beck, as I discovered when I installed a new Stayfast top.  I think my car could be lifted up by it.  When the car sits with the top down and the temp drops the top shrinks to the point where it just won't reach the windshield.  I have to put the top up, except for the front latches, and sometimes put some weight on it to stretch it.  It works best if the car is out in the sun.

I still think that your frame can be salvaged, but you'll need to see if the nut on the driver's side post is all the way tight.

Yes, @Cory McCloskey, it is actually wrapped around a metal bar that is bolted to the body.  It tensions back to this bar (and is glued in place) instead of the handful of snaps.  Much more secure this way. That is "factory".

Sounds like it would be easier to loosen from the windshield header bow and get 1/2-3/4".  Hot air heat gun would loosen the contact cement.

chines1 posted:

Yes, @Cory McCloskey, it is actually wrapped around a metal bar that is bolted to the body.  It tensions back to this bar (and is glued in place) instead of the handful of snaps.  Much more secure this way. That is "factory".

Gotcha, @chines1

I didn't notice the glue when I checked Paul's Speedster's top arrangement. (He has the yellow Beck.) I thought it was a homemade effort.  How do you recommend removing the top from the body? When I purchased my car, the back window had split from being folded for so long.  I went to an auto upholsterer to check on replacing it, and that's when I discovered the glue...

It's a bit of a job, but one you can do.  Obviously you remove it from the header first.  The loops around the top bars are just velcroed on.  If you have snaps for a tonneau cover you will have to drill out the rivets.  That leaves the glue.  You have to peal the carpet away in the cargo area behind the seats, exposing the top fabric glued to the bar.  Your best bet is to cut away the top unless you plan to use it for something.  that gives you more room to work.  The fabric around the bar consists of one layer between the body of the car and the bar that is glued to the body behind where the carpet was.  There is another layer on the other side of the bar glued to it and to the first layer.  The carpet is then glued over that, making for a reeeeeeeally strong mount of the top.  You'll be pealing and cutting and softening the glue with mineral spirits to get it off.  Make sure that you clean all of the glue residue before you add glue for the new top.  Installation is the reverse of removal, er, without the cutting part.  It's a whole lot easier if you remove the seats and steering wheel to give yourself working space.

Have fun!

EDIT: If you buy a new top from Carey (recommended), get the Stayfast one.  It's pretty near indestructable and looks really nice.  Store the car with the top up to keep it stretched out.