Honestly, we have a 1.8T VW 5sp stick and my full subie IM, the engine just has torque from the get go... the VW is nice but seems to hesitate till you get it turning then when the boost comes it goes pretty good. Just not the same torque feel.
edsnova posted:I'd like to see a Subaru engine open next to a Type 4. The intake and exhaust port layouts on those two look very similar. I wonder if the Subie engineers didn't start with a bus engine and just add OHC motorcycle heads and a water jacket.
btw: great thread drift on this one, guys.
Good engineering is just good engineering. The Type 4 (and Subaru) layout-- a main for every rod, intake in the top and exhaust out the bottom is just the way it ought to be. The heads are where all the magic happens, and Japanese motorcycles paved the way to excellent combustion efficiencies in the 80s, with 4 v (and 5 v, in the case of Yamaha) layouts. Once split-phasing cams became a thing (Honda VTec), the sky was the limit.
What would be SUPER interesting to me would be to see a Subaru open next to a Porsche 718. Who's cribbing who?
Yup...That was fun. Back in the day when I had to learn about crankshafts I thought they were interesting and still do. GM made a crank for some of their V-6 engines that was interesting. In order to make them run a little smoother they ground rod journals off-set from each other on the same throw. To look at it would give you the impression of a complicated component. When I think of it, they had an unforgettable firing order. It was 1-6-5-4-3-2.. Just say one and then count backwards from six and you have it. GM V8's were easy to remember too. Take the number 18, double it to 36, then double that to 72. take the 4 and 5 and put them in between. 18 4 36 5 72. Radial aircraft engines are fascinating. For example, nine cylinders all pushing one crank throw around. Lots of torque ! The weird part of a radial is that it has to have a "master" crank pin on one of the rods around the journal in order to keep everything aligned. That is the weak link and create's a slight balance problem.
OK, this is my last drift comment on this thread. I hope it wasn't too boring. David, I hope all this dialog helped you to understand crankshaft configuration as it relates to firing order. The hard part is to try and visualize what all the other cylinders are doing at the time number "ONE" is on the beginning of it's power stroke since they have to be in all the right sequences of the 4 strokes; and do it in the next two revolutions. Stan, you have a very admirable ability to think things out in a very logical manner. Both with all this mechanical stuff but also with the essence of life experiences as well. Ed, I'm fascinated with your project and totally relate to how you go about completing it. This site helps me keep my sanity while I wait for my Spyder project to be here in my garage.................Bruce
So to sum this up, a Suby sounds like a Suby due to the exhaust and nothing else.
So if one were to build an exhaust with header lengths like a VW, it would sound the same except no fan whistle?
Maybe Danny....Don't know for sure. I'm not sure that anyone could hear a small difference in a firing order with everything else being equal.........Bruce
I've owned two Spyders, one Vintage and one Beck....... Vintage was Subaru powered, and the Beck was CB Perf VW..... There was a deffinite difference, and a lot of it was the fuel injection as opposed to those gas/air/trash sucking Webers.... Just my .o2
@LeonChupp- not getting the pics
Leon....I'm sure that your cars sounded different with different engines . I think different cars and different engines all have a sound unique to them. My logical side just says that that the a firing order difference in two engines with the same crankshaft configuration is not likely to be the cause of a different sound. It's has to be something else. Something like a different exhaust system, different valve arrangement (two valves vs one), a cross-flow head vs reverse flow or right angle flow. Even cam timing or overlap or different duration could make a difference. It's interesting to contemplate though !...........Bruce
Its the fan, fellows. No mystery here. Cams will matter, mufflers will matter, displacement will matter, but you can't do away with the fan and have the same thing. Nope.
Not to mention the sound insulating qualities of a water jacket.
It is definitely NOT the fan noise that makes them different.
Did not say the fan was the ONLY thing. As we used to say in math class: necessary but not sufficient.