Best oil for tropical climate?

I think Amzoil Z-Rod 10W-30 or 20W-50 is good. Pricey though. Valvoline VR-1. Both of these have zinc content.

 

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/A...QT-EA-p/zrtqt-ea.htm

 

Here is a pretty good article on synthetic oil:

 

http://www.aircooled.net/synthetic-vw-oil/

I run Brad Penn 20w-50.  I think Charleston qualifies as a warmer climate.

Tropical climate = coconut oil.

 

I think 20w-50 is your best bet. That's what Porsche recommends for 356 engines. Just make sure you buy an oil with zinc for flat tappet engines.

I use Valvoline ZR-1 20w50. Has zinc that the engine needs.

Thinking of Royal Purple 10-30 or 20-50 (readily available)

If I recall Raby did some testing and was very happy with the RP.

 

But he was happiest with Brad Penn, which is precisely why I use it.  It's also cheaper than Royal Purple, but less readily available.

Brad Penn 20W50

Wow....We're running Porsche engines?  And for all these years, I thought I was running a Volkswagen engine.

 

Oh, wait.....I AM running a Volkswagen engine!

 

So let's see.....What does the "Official Volkswagen Service Manual" (Robert Bentley) tell me?

 

Section 10; Lubrication and Maintenance Table A listing Engine Oil Viscosities:

 

Under "Tropical Climate" (ambient temps from 70F to 110F) the recommended oil is either SAE 20W-40 (for temps from 30F to about 95F) or 20W-50 (for temps from 30F to about 75F)

 

Straight SAE 40 is good from about 68F all the way up to 105F

 

Personally, I currently use Brad Penn, mostly because it is recommended by Charles Navarro and Jake Raby and also because it has lots of slippery stuff in it that our flat tappet engines need.  If I couldn't find that, then Royal Purple or Amsoil would be a good second choice, with Mobile 1 a close third.

 

Also personally, I do not recommend 20W-50 oil in these engines, especially in hotter climates, since the thicker oil tricks the oil bypass circuitry into thinking that the engine is colder than it really is (because colder oil is thicker oil) and bypasses the internal oil cooler, thus, making the engine run hotter than it should be.  Stick with what Volkswagen recommended and run the 20W-40 and you'll be fine.

I have a 911 fan shroud

I use Joe Gibbs DT-50 because Jake says so 

The current thinking that is gaining acceptance in the VW world (and the automotive world in general, as many manufacturers are now recommending the same oil in their cars year-round) is that the same oil that your car works so well with when it's cold outside is also the right oil at higher temps. If you think of it, even when it's 100' outside, the temperature parameters that an engine works within hasn't changed.

 

The VW engine seems to have been designed for 30 weight oil; at highways speeds the engine is turning 2500-4000rpm and oil pressure will normally be in the neighborhood of approximately 10psi per 1,000rpm, which is what most people in the automotive industry consider optimal. The oil cooler bypass blocks off the cooler at 48psi, which allows the engine faster warm-ups and also allows oil through the cooler even at these higher rpm's. With heavier oil (eg- 20W-50) you'll get higher pressures at freeway speeds (even when at operating temps) and these higher pressures fool the the system into bypassing oil Past The Cooler and the engine will run hotter.  

 

Use the oil with the thinnest initial (or cold) weight you can find. Even 0W-XX oil is too heavy to lubricate at start up, as it needs to get up to operating temps to do it's job, but it does it a lot faster than 20W-XX. If the oil you're considering is made in a 5W-30 and a 10W-30 I would use the oil with the lower first #, as it will flow through the bearings, lubricating parts and carrying away heat that little bit sooner. As for worrying about cost, really? You're going to quibble over an extra 20 or even $40 once or twice a year when you have anywhere from 3500 to $8,000 (or more, for a couple guys) invested in an engine?

 

PS- Gordon, to add to your list, I would include Valvoline VR1 as well.

 

 

 

That is the best stuff. Usually $15 buck a quart. Amazon has that in a 12 pack for $135 and free shipping. Non-detergent though. I think you would have to run some detergent motor oil every couple of oil changes to get any sludge build up out.

Hawaii Bill wrote:  "I have a 911 fan shroud" 

 

ok......I have Maserati seats.  

I suppose that's true in a round-a-bout way, huh?! LOL

Here's my two sense.past practice has been to use 20-50. If you have extreme conditions 95+ degree temps and motor is under heavy loads, loose clearances I use 20-50. Most of the engines build today I focus on the clearances and use 10-40. Or straight 30 & 40. You should use what your engine builder recommends. If you don't know go with 20-50. Of course we are using Brad Penn products. 

Bye the way I stock brad penn products, breakin 30, straight 30,40,50,& nitro 70. 5-20, 5-30, 10-30,10-40,15-40, 20-50, along with there deisel oils, gear oils newer car 5-30.  

@ Anthony

 

What's your price per quart/case of Bard Penn?

 

If you're going to Tour 'de Hoe you should take some orders so we can buy oil from you.

 

7.5oqt/90.00/case for all the racing oils 

Breakin is 8.00qt/96.00case

in stock

Good Idea, Robert!

 

Tony, we can run some up to Tahoe or have some at the barbecue! 

Sure, I can deliver to Terry's place or meet up there on saturday for dinner?

call me or email me

1916-255-7996

anthonysracingcomp@sbcglobal.net

Why not spend less money and use Lucas Break in additive, which is heavy with zinc, plus normal 10W30 good brand oil, for break in on the engine in any weather, hot or cool. The break in should be done with only 30 miles or 30 minutes, steady running time, then shut off engine and let it cool down for one hour.  Next, after 250 miles, change the oil to what you need to use, for where you live.  I would never pay $7.50/qt. of oil unless a topless dancer came with the box of 12.  In race only applications, I found the extremely high rpm engines use 10W30 and not 20W50, as the lighter weigh oil will flow faster and cool off the parts.  Pressure depends on clearances , not thick oil or high weight numbers on the oil.  If your oil pressure is not running upward to 10 psi, per 1000 rpm, that is, at 3000 rpm and with a hot engine, you should have a minimum of 30 psi oil pressure.  Higher rpm of 4000, should see 40 psi.  VW said the wear limit is 28psi at 2500 rpm.  I might have that backwards and is 25psi at 2800 rpm.  AT idle, one might see only 15psi, but as stated, that is good, as idle should be 900 to 1000 rpm, which would only be 10 psi, per the Porsche and VW engineers.  The idiot light comes on at 7.5psi.  Then, you worry if with more rpm, it does not go out.

 

I just re-built a 2387cc radical engine, using a stock pump. With an Auto Meter mechanical gauge, the readings are 10psi for every rpm, when hot and when cold, it can peg the needle at 80 and 90psi with the engine with higher rpm, when cold.  As rpm goes up, psi goes up. The stock pump will put out 100psi, so no need for some aftermarket monster pump. In fact, the after markets ones, are not machined to close specs, so they actually allow oil to bypass the gears and you have less oil pressure with the aftermarket pumps.  Use a mechanical oil pressure gauge if you really want to see fast oil pressure readings with 1/4 inch ID hose. 

Should read 10psi for every 1000 rpm, on the oil pressure gauge. 

You hit a number of great points in you post above, George; I just have a couple of questions and observations- 

What oil do you use with the Lucas break-in additive, and do you use it (in lower amounts, maybe?) afterward in every oil change? 

 

"I would never pay $7.50/qt. of oil unless a topless dancer came with the box of 12."

 

As I said earlier, with so much invested in these engines, when you only do an oil change once or twice a year, this isn't the place to cheap out. Why not take advantage of the best the current technology has to offer? Modern oil formulations don't have what our little engines need, and although you could throw anything in it at oil change time and it will apparently run fine (and with stock or near stock valve spring pressures may even provide full life) I'd argue that for full life with dual springs our engines need the benefits of zddp.  

 

"I found the extremely high rpm engines use 10W30 and not 20W50, as the lighter weigh oil will flow faster and cool off the parts. Pressure depends on clearances , not thick oil or high weight numbers on the oil.  If your oil pressure is not running upward to 10 psi, per 1000 rpm..."

 

A lot of great info in that and the rest of the paragraph! Not enough people realize the oil weight/bearing clearance relationship. And I'm sure you know this, but for those that may not- the aftermaket VDO dual pole oil pressure sender turns on the idiot light when pressure drops below 7.5 or 8lbs, and it's not uncommon for the dash light to come on at idle when at operating temps (more likely to happen if the engine's idle speed is close to 800rpm). If the dash light flickers occasionally (again, at idle when it's fully warmed up) not a problem. On the other hand, if you are using the stock oil pressure sender, it will turn the dash light on when pressure drops below 2.5-3lbs, so at this point you do need to be concerned.

 

Care to share the specs of the 2387? What did it go into?

 

I will really get some mail on this reply. For break in, use Valvoline racing oil, 10W30 which also has "some" zinc. The federal government made the oil companies reduce the amount of zinc, even in the racing oil, for pollution purposes. Yet, we have drilling rigs in Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico, leaking pipe lines and so forth, but hey, that zinc is bad stuff. When the engine has 250 miles I use Walmart's store brand, Super Tech in all my engines and never had a problem. My race engine cost over $10,000, but in all my engines, I go by 2000 miles or three months on when I do oil change. Now, where I live, only three miles from the Gulf of Mexico, we have extremely high humidity. The moisture in the air will get into the engine crankcase and dilute the oil, so I use three months as my time table, not twice a year, as you wrote.

Walmart ( they don't pay me to advertise their products) sell their store brand oil for less than $3/qt. It meets all car company warranties. If you have the money, buy Castrol. Hard to find their 20W50 , where I shop.

2387cc engine specs : Magnesium VW case, full flowed, 8mm case savers with ARP head studs. Wedge mated Scat crank with H-beam rods w/ARP bolts. Engle 120 cam, light weight Scat lifters. Mahle 94mm forged pistons with Berg wrist pin clips, total seal rings. Heads by Brother's VW machine shop, Ontario, CA. 42X37.5mm SS with CM retainers, VW valve keepers, shims, nice big D ports with matching intakes, all ported and polished. Custom 1-5/8 inch exhaust. Carbs are 45mm dual Dells. Mallory electronic ignition, Kennedy stage two clutch and solid center disc. For cooling uses welded up German stock blower fan plus external oil cooler and electric fan. Set up engine for street use with only 7.5:1 CR. Okay, here come the emails. Plenty of power at low and mid range, where the engine is, when driving the car on the street. Car has five speed Porsche 911 tranny. Should do 140mph, easily. Redline = 7500. Oil pressure , cold up to 90psi. Temperature of oil stays at 200 or below. Used Castrol oil 10W40 in this one with eight qts. oil capacity.

My modified engines all have an external filter and with oil changes done more than twice a year, using the Walmart brand works okay. Tear down on engines shows very little bearing wear. It's all about quality bearings and proper clearances and oil flow. 40% of the air cooled engine's temperature is controlled by the oil. So, key is the ability of the oil to move in and out of the parts fast to keep the components running cooler and of course, lubed. NEVER use synthetic as it will overheat your air cooled VW engine. Water cooled engine, use Synthetic.

Have you dynode, that engine for what it gives you. Ray

I have dyno tested many combinations in the past. Not this one, but based on the combination, it should produce upward to 150hp at 7000 rpm. Really good air flow with the heads, exhaust and just enough cam spec. Now, at lower rpm, HP might be only 100 to 120, but good for a light weight car.

When (and how) did you come to this conclusion?

Regarding the price of Penn and Gibbs oil: I'm reminded of an old Bell Helmet ad from the '70s. "If you've got a $10 head, then go ahead and buy a $10 helmet".

 

Is it overkill? Perhaps, but I've got a fair bit of blood, sweat, and tears invested in my set-up. $7.50/qt seems reasonable to me.

Porches engineers did the study for VW. Sorry, I did not copy the old research, from many years ago. Also, my group of 15 VW drag racers tried Castrol synthetic 5W50, when it was the only synthetic we knew of, with oil pressure gauges and oil temperature gauges. In both our street engine and in the race engines, here was the results of our testing. The engine ran better, it seemed due to reduced friction of the oil. But, we only saw 1/100 or 2/100 improvements in ET on the 1/4 mile. Also, what we noted on the gauges was good oil pressure but higher oil temperatures. And, higher head temperatures. What's good about Synthetic ? It does not break down and with filtering, can last almost forever. The down side is that with 40% of the engine cooling done in the air cooled engine with the oil, synthetic does not collect the heat from the engine and do a good job of carrying this to the oil cooler for transfer to the outside of the engine.

So, you can use whatever you want in your air cooled engine. Tested on hand's on testing, I am not using synthetic. I mentioned, with better cooling done by water, synthetic only lubes and does not function to cool down the engine.

Why don't you research the specs put out by Castrol and ask for their engineering reports. Porsche only went to synthetic oil, when they switched over to water cooling. I am not a smart person, but if all the drag racers I know and Porsche racers use petroleum based oil, for some reason, that is important. Look at the million dollar engines for NASCAR and ask their mechanical engineers they hire, what oil they really use. I doubt, while they might advertise synthetic, it is not in their race engine. Heat in engines, is the problem and what kills parts, faster than other things. My NEW 2014 Hyundai, water cooled does not use synthetic. You see, for some reason, they wanted the old fashioned oil, real oil. Toyota trucks only started using it in 2011 or 2012, not long ago, from my owner experience, but we all know, synthetic has been here since the 1990's . Why did the car companies not use it ? Ask yourself if you are smarter than the Porsche and GM and Toyota engineers. I know, I am not as smart !

Another perspective to the proverbial "dino vs. synth" discussion is that old studies apply to old technology.  Modern oils, both dino and synth, have changed much in the last few years.  Most air cooled sites, and oil web sites in general, will agree that synth oil is a good choice for a/c engines with some caveats:

 

Don't run synth for 7500 miles.  While the oil itself doesn't break down, the additives do, and contaminants still accumulate. 

 

Buy quality lubricants and change them at recommended intervals.

 

The advantage of synth oil is that, at the molecular level, oil molecules are smaller than dyno and all the same size, enabling a higher and more efficient degree of heat absorbtion than the irregular molecular size of dino oil.

 

Car guys can't agree on what day it is.  It just seem to be the contrary nature of what makes us all tick.  Ford vs Chevy, type 1 vs type 4 vs Subi--take your pick, and we can find something to disagree about.  I'm not saying disagreement is all bad.  Far from it, that's part of how I learn.

 

Best advice: do your own research, don't take one person's word on any automotive subject.  Get several opinions, and that's not hard to do, on this site or on other car sites.  

I agree with you and some car manufactures told me to go 10,000 miles before switching over to synthetic. That allows the parts a better break in with dino oil.

Harley, the motorcycle company only went to synthetic in about year 2010. You see, my point was IF it has been available since the early 1990's why didn't the car companies suggest it in new cars and trucks?

And, the formulas for the synthetic oil have not changed, as you claim, due to "modern" technology. They have patents and Castrol has not changed their oil, so maybe, with the later want-to-be popular synthetic oil sellers, the "new" guys came up with their own mixtures. Ask most racers what they think of Royal Purple, in their water cooled engines and most I speak with say that stuff is junk. Now, this scientific survey is based on me talking with knowledgeable people who do their own engine work and maintenance and not about air cooled stuff. I just hear at the track, few real race cars are using synthetic. Now, that is new data, not from 1990.

Harley got by using the synthetic in their air cooled motorcycles by also going at the same time to fuel injection which we all should agree is a better means of fuel distribution and keeps the engine in tune and running better. They also added more fins and longer cooling fins to their 1700cc engines, which is far superior to the cooling fins on the VW air cooled engines. So, the FI and improved design of the cooling system allows them to use synthetic. Ever note, on new cars, they still want the synthetic oil changed at no more than intervals of 5000 miles, per most service managers ? Now, again, this is current data, not my opinion, but what I hear from various brands. I guess, if you can afford the synthetic every 5000 miles, use it. I am happy my new car uses the old dino oil. It is 2.4L with 150hp and redline at 6800. Not bad technology for a four cylinder. Also, there is no problem with changing the oil as often as you want to and the more often, the cleaner the inside of your engine will be, based on 40 years of looking inside engines with varied amounts of miles on them.

I love "oil wars".

 

Let's talk about GL4 vs GL5 gear lube!

VW and Porsche, in their owner's manuals, on the old cars recommended ONLY GL5. Go discuss that with the German engineers. It is a military rated number. Government listed number 5, used by our USA military. So, go discuss that best gear oil with the US Government, not me. If good enough for the military and good enough for VW and Porches, it is good enough for me. Forget the GL-4 stuff.

Like people want to use Dot 4 or 5 synthetic brake fluid and they forget to change out all the seals to be good to use, with that brake fluid. I just use the old Dot 3 and that was what VW recommended. Why anyone wants to think they are smarter than the VW engineers amazes me. New tech does not mean it was made for the old designed engines. People go with what they read on the Internet and we all know that commercial - " What is on the Internet is always true" . Maybe, they will buy my swamp land in LA, from me, the same people using what all people who only sell parts tell them to use, as it is the greatest thing made, since Adam and Eve found their bodies.

I admit I am not the smartest cookie at times, but with 50 years of auto tech experience, ASE Certification, Past auto tech instructor, past National record holder in IHRA and too much college and 40 years with VW repair work, I should know something. Not much, but something. I repaired turbo charged Porsche and Ferrari cars, before opening up my own VW repair business. Now, tell me those were not high tech . Have you ever changed out the major parts of the Porsche 928 and got it right ? Not so, then humor me and accept some of what I tell you. I have owned several excellent running Porsche 911, not only VW's. First person in my area working on electronic FI, which everyone freaked out over, but my Uncle Sam gave me advanced electronic schooling, back in 1967. Very advanced. We had the first IBM hard drive every made , in working condition, when I was specialized in communication and electronic repairs. It was huge, about 3X3X3 in size. Those are feet measurements. Not inches, not MM.

Yeah in 1984 I had a MAI mini computer in my office it was the size of a 3 drawer filing cabinet on wheels. Ray

Perfect. That's settled.

 

Next up: who is the best builder?

The guy who has all the stars aligned on the build and the right price and equipment you can afford or choose to afford, not to mention the right company location Ray

I learn something new EVERY TIME I visit this site. All very interesting info and each with its own merit (for those with angst over this stuff). I use Terrible Herbst reclaimed motor oil in my VS daily driver. 

Where was George when the discussion about oil coolers and fresh clean air going to the engine compartment. 

This is was is great about these forums. Knowledge! Everybodys's two sense is always helpful...........