Best remote cooler

I have a used Setrab setup for sale due to Suby Conversion.

 

FPCOPO, I'd jump on Tom's offer with both feet.

I replaced the cheapish cooler that came with my VS with a Setrab and the difference in construction alone is night and day.

But wait - as Ron Popeil would say, there's more!

The Setrab gives you more cooling in a smaller package because it was designed to higher standards. And, best of all, Tom's package (no jokes, please) was designed to fit and work in a Speedster.

If you buy any cooler off the shelf, the hard part is installing it so everything works right. So it clears everything it needs to, allows access to the valve covers, has enough airflow to do its job, is protected from road debris, and so that the hoses are routed without fouling or obstructing anything.

Doing all that at once in the small space available in a Speedster can be a challenge, or even a work of art.

I haven't seen Tom's install, but he's a pretty fussy guy so he's probably got most of the boxes checked for you already.

 

PS (somewhat later): If you replace your cooler, DON'T put the new one where VS mounts theirs - in the compartment in front of the engine.

Put it in the rear wheel well - for many reasons.

 

 

He.. he... hahahaha... he said Tom's package...

Go with Tom's cooler ~

The setrab is a better design and more efficient. There are several combinations available with fan packs. Key thing is to mount it where the heat from the cooler does not get sucked back into the engine compartment.  Some speedster manufacturers mount there cooler in front or over the trans. Not enough clean air flow in those locations.  I stock the coolers with the fan packs and the special fittings for them. Also available is a nice remote filter housing from setrab. 

Any questions on locating or mounting the cooler contact me.

Anthony posted:

The setrab is a better design and more efficient. There are several combinations available with fan packs. Key thing is to mount it where the heat from the cooler does not get sucked back into the engine compartment.  Some speedster manufacturers mount there cooler in front or over the trans. Not enough clean air flow in those locations.  I stock the coolers with the fan packs and the special fittings for them. Also available is a nice remote filter housing from setrab. 

Any questions on locating or mounting the cooler contact me.

Hey Anthony,

Don't cock block me.  Let me sell my used unit. I gave you a good deal on my A1 Sidewinder, didn't I?

Tom Blankinship posted:

Anthony posted:

The setrab is a better design and more efficient. There are several combinations available with fan packs. Key thing is to mount it where the heat from the cooler does not get sucked back into the engine compartment.  Some speedster manufacturers mount there cooler in front or over the trans. Not enough clean air flow in those locations.  I stock the coolers with the fan packs and the special fittings for them. Also available is a nice remote filter housing from setrab. 

Any questions on locating or mounting the cooler contact me.

Hey Anthony,

Don't cock block me.  Let me sell my used unit. I gave you a good deal on my A1 Sidewinder, didn't I?

No block intended. Keep in mind if fittings for those coolers are not off the shelf items.

if he doesn't buy it email me and maybe we can work something out.

as for the header, thank you. The heater boxes were modified and could not use them for the customers car.

I hope you took my comment in the good natured way it was intended Anthony. Just poking you. I know that your intentions are good.
>

When I had me Setrab installed I had the fabricator put it in the same place as Teby's Setrab. It was installed horizontally, with the fan on top, wired to push air through the fins, and it was installed along the inside of the frame rail in front of the driver's side rear tire. I'll see if I can find a picture and post it later.  It works wonderfully and doesn't get in the way of anything. I just didn't want to clog the wheel well with to much stuff. My remote oil filter is tucked up in the back of it.

Robert, if you could find a pic of your cooler install, that would be great. Alway nice to see how other people have done it.

You can't go wrong with Tom's offer.

And I have my cooler mounted to the firewall above the trans, 180 degrees all the time...

Mine is mounted where VS installed it but I spaced it about 1-1/4" away from the bulkhead so as to get some flow. I have a 180 fan switch and once the car is fully warmed on a 72 or higher day the fan runs all the time and won't cycle. Also I can't see the temp gauge move down once the fan turns on. I think I am going to leave the cooler in the same position but mount it more flat so the air blows back out the bottom instead of up under the car where the fan from the engine can suck it in.  I think this would be like Robert has it.  Where do your temp needles read on a normal day?  Mine is about in the middle but God knows what the temp actually is.

Do you guys mean they are mounted vertical on the otherside of the firewall from the fan shroud?

ALB posted:

Do you guys mean they are mounted vertical on the otherside of the firewall from the fan shroud?

Yes. VS mounts the cooler in the gap between the back of the back seat fiberglass and the back of the firewall (LOL) fiberglass.  They mount the cooler up into that space. Many on here don't feel it is an appropriate place to mount the cooler since that area in there has a considerable vacuum and there is no air to push/pull through the cooler, hence no cooling effect.

Not only that, Robert, but you could also be preheating the air entering the engine compartment through the hole in the firewall.

Robert M posted:

ALB posted:

Do you guys mean they are mounted vertical on the otherside of the firewall from the fan shroud?

Yes. VS mounts the cooler in the gap between the back of the back seat fiberglass and the back of the firewall (LOL) fiberglass.  They mount the cooler up into that space. Many on here don't feel it is an appropriate place to mount the cooler since that area in there has a considerable vacuum and there is no air to push/pull through the cooler, hence no cooling effect.

I have a liquid cooled engine and mounted my heater core with built in 3 speed fan in that cavity. For some reason at almost any speed, I get heat coming into the cabin even with the fan turned off. To me, that would imply there may be pressure up in there rather than vacuum.

Mind you, my engine compartment is not sealed like an aircooled engine would need and maybe that tweaks the whole airflow system in the rear of the car.

I have read, David, that the air pressure under the car is as much as 2psi higher than that over top. This is what pressurizes that space in front of the firewall in a Speedster and feeds air into the engine compartment at speed through a firewall hole.

I think, the aerodynamics for this is easy to explain.

When you drive the Speedster, the air, which takes the way over the body has to make a much longer way than the air, whitch takes the way under the body.

Same amount of air on a longer distance means automatically lower pressure over the car.

Same amount of air on a shorter distance means automatically higher pressure under the car.

That's, why there always flows air through the engine compartment.

The problem to mount the cooler in this position is out of my point of view, that you bring the hot air from the oilcooler into the engine compartment

Attached, you find a self-painted picture ;-)

Bruce's tests with a manometer show a low vacuum in that cavity.  I'm going to lay the cooler down as flat as I can get it and use the fan to pull the hot air out of the cooler and blow it out the bottom of the car. Hopefully it won't heat the engine fan air this way and do a better job of cooling the oil.  It won't be packaged quite as neatly but it should work better.

I think that's how mine was mounted.

> On Mar 3, 2016, at 6:26 AM, SpeedsterOwners.com <**************> wrote:
>

 

FPCOPO, it occurs to me you have a rare opportunity to do some basic research that may help out all SOCers and could save you some coin in the bargain.

Why not install no cooler for now and see how warm your engine runs without it? Just connect the cooler's inlet and outlet hoses together for awhile.

When I put in a new 2-liter stroker motor, I still had the VS (EMPI) cooler and fan installed in the usual way in the usual compartment. But I installed another fan in front of the vent into the engine compartment that forced more air from the 'cooler' compartment into the engine bay.

With that fan on, the engine actually ran hotter than with it off. I also noticed, putting my hand on the outside of the car over that compartment, that it was much hotter than the deck lid over the engine. Basically, the space is a closed box at the top where heat builds up, and the only heat that escapes just goes into the engine, making that hotter.

Once the cooler is surrounded by very hot air, it's really not doing very much oil cooling any more. The oil is probably being cooled more by the lines running there and back.

So, why not enlighten us all before enlightening your bank account? How about running without the cooler and seeing if your oil is hotter, cooler, or the same as before?

That's one small step for FPCOPO, one giant leap for mankind.

 

Robert.   Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you were having cooling issues before you went to the Setrab.   It was more of an enhancement and preventative decision to make the change.  At least I think you told me that,  but I could easily be wrong. 

Either way,  my point is that there are lots and lots of Speedsters out there with oil coolers mounted on the firewall that aren't having cooling issues.  So don't fix it if it ain't broke unless you just want to. 

 

Troy Sloan posted:

Robert.   Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you were having cooling issues before you went to the Setrab.   It was more of an enhancement and preventative decision to make the change.  At least I think you told me that,  but I could easily be wrong. 

Either way,  my point is that there are lots and lots of Speedsters out there with oil coolers mounted on the firewall that aren't having cooling issues.  So don't fix it if it ain't broke unless you just want to. 

 

The only cooling issue I had was when I drove up the four lane to Shaver Lake. It was a warm day and the needle got dangerously close to the red zone. I decided to add the cooler as a preventative measure since I like o go to Shaver Lake a lot. Now that my timing issue has been resolved that could have been a contributing factor.

 

Troy, I agree, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

But I also think anyone considering making a change, or forced to do so by circumstances, should understand that there are better options.

I think VS (and others) put the cooler where they do for their own convenience during the build, and not for any functional reasons. (It's certainly not a convenient location once the tranny and engine are in.)

I know you're no stranger to heat in Fresno, but Sacramento is no better. My original cooler was sort of OK with a 70 hp motor, but only just. With over 100 hp, it was sometimes not OK.

The Setrab mounted in the wheel well is light years better. I think putting the EMPI cooler in the wheel well would also be a huge improvement, but once I decided to make the move, I sprang for a Setrab.

But hey, let's just enjoy the sunshine.

 

 

Louvers on top would be cooler! Get it?

Robert M posted:

Troy Sloan posted:

Robert.   Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you were having cooling issues before you went to the Setrab.   It was more of an enhancement and preventative decision to make the change.  At least I think you told me that,  but I could easily be wrong. 

Either way,  my point is that there are lots and lots of Speedsters out there with oil coolers mounted on the firewall that aren't having cooling issues.  So don't fix it if it ain't broke unless you just want to. 

 

The only cooling issue I had was when I drove up the four lane to Shaver Lake. It was a warm day and the needle got dangerously close to the red zone. I decided to add the cooler as a preventative measure since I like o go to Shaver Lake a lot. Now that my timing issue has been resolved that could have been a contributing factor.

Yes, do recall you saying that, but now I wonder if that might have been due to your timing not being correct.  I drove your car over the grapevine from LA to Fresno on a 90+ degree day and it ran strong and at normal temps. 

I know we are all really good about 3000 mile valve adjustment, but we should also include ignition timing along with the valves at the same time.   No excuse anymore, now that you have a timing light.  ;~) 

crhemi (Bill) posted:

Louvers on top would be cooler! Get it?

Along with CruZin windows.  :-) 

Jan Peter Stahl posted:

I think, the aerodynamics for this is easy to explain.

When you drive the Speedster, the air, which takes the way over the body has to make a much longer way than the air, whitch takes the way under the body.

Same amount of air on a longer distance means automatically lower pressure over the car.

Same amount of air on a shorter distance means automatically higher pressure under the car.

That's, why there always flows air through the engine compartment.

The problem to mount the cooler in this position is out of my point of view, that you bring the hot air from the oilcooler into the engine compartment

Attached, you find a self-painted picture ;-)

Well I guess that explains why planes have wings!

Where's the air coming from that is constantly trying to remove the hat from my head when underway?

Bloody Knuckles posted:

Where's the air coming from that is constantly trying to remove the hat from my head when underway?

It looks like it's coming from Portland:

 

ALB posted:

Robert, if you could find a pic of your cooler install, that would be great. Alway nice to see how other people have done it.

The cooler was hung after fabricating four hanger straps instead of the optional Setrab bracket. The two hangers on the left are longer and have more of a bend in them. The inside hangers (right side) are shorter and more vertical to allow for the correct positioning of the cooler. The hangers were welded to the frame rail on the left and right side and the proper size holes drilled at the bottom ends of the hangers. The fan is on top of the cooler and it pushes air down. The relay is hung off the right side rear hanger and all connections are soldered and heat shrink protected. The remote cooler is vertical in the left rear wheel well.

The cooler gets more airflow here (I think) than in the cavity between the firewall and the back of the luggage shelf. I opted for the fan to push instead of pull in an attempt to not suck road papers up into the fan. The fins face the ground and should be positioned so road debris won't strike the face of the cooler damaging the fins. (Time will tell)

Sorry it took so long but here are the photos:

If you wanted more air flowing into the oil cooler you could fabricate a scoop and mount it underneath the cooler.  You could also put a mesh screen across the scoop's open end.  This would give the cooler added protection from rocks, etc.

 

It IS possible to fit both the filter and a cooler in the same wheel well, but it requires a little creativity.

My filter had to be moved back some from where VS mounted it to make room for the cooler. It was also put on a Setrab oil filter bracket that allows some flexibility in how the hoses can be routed. Putting the filter and cooler close together shortens oil line runs and cleans things up a bit.

One edge of the cooler is on a mounting plate that bolts to frame members. One opposite corner is held by a strut.

This is not Setrab's smallest cooler, but the next one up. It's mounted vertically, behind the tire, and a deflector plate was made to keep road debris off it. Three thousand miles later, it's working well, and no problems with debris.

 

That looks real nice Mitch.

Several reasons I wanted it where it is:

1. Easier to get to than the cavity in front of the firewall

2. I didn't want to clog up the space in the wheel well

3. It gets airflow but not too much airflow so the oil has a chance to warm up

4. When I stop I can listen for the fan so I know it's working but I did not wire it up to run the fan after I shut off the car. There's no real point since the only oil that would be cooled is the oil in the 19 small tubes that wind thru the cooler.

It gets plenty of air where it's at and while I was driving the other day it did come on and believe me when I say 180 degrees on the oil temp gauge is no where near where I thought it was. It was a lot lower.

The fan has a automatic thermal switch that measures the oil temp on the way out of the cooler and I was shocked that the oil temp gauge was only at the bottom third of the gauge when it came on. I would have thought 180 degrees would have been a lot higher up, say the 2/3's of the way up the gauge, when the needle hit 180 degrees.

Who knows what the temperature is when the needle hits 2/3's of the way up on the gauge??? I can see where an accurate oil temp gauge/sender and/or CHT gauges/senders would be an improvement in making sure our air-cooled cars run at their most efficient level.

 

Robert, I am a dedicated Luddite and use a switch under the dash to turn the fan on manually. I don't recommend this for normal, well-adjusted people.

I usually wait until the temp needle approaches mid-gauge before flipping the switch and turn it off if the needle drops below one quarter. With all the variations from one car to another and with the fine quality control of our Chinese instruments, I'm sure what the gauge reading means is different for each of us, but I think I once measured the temperature of the oil in the sump at 'mid-gauge' and it was about 195 degrees.

I do find that turning the fan on does bring the temp down dramatically. I usually don't need to use the fan if outside air temp is below 75 degrees. On the hottest days, even climbing hills, the needle seldom goes above mid-gauge with the fan on.

Of course, above 85 degrees in direct sun, the driver is starting to overheat too. I do most of my summer driving in the mornings.

Cheers!

 

 

Robert M posted:

ALB posted:

Robert, if you could find a pic of your cooler install, that would be great. Alway nice to see how other people have done it.

The cooler was hung after fabricating four hanger straps instead of the optional Setrab bracket. The two hangers on the left are longer and have more of a bend in them. The inside hangers (right side) are shorter and more vertical to allow for the correct positioning of the cooler. The hangers were welded to the frame rail on the left and right side and the proper size holes drilled at the bottom ends of the hangers. The fan is on top of the cooler and it pushes air down. The relay is hung off the right side rear hanger and all connections are soldered and heat shrink protected. The remote cooler is vertical in the left rear wheel well.

The cooler gets more airflow here (I think) than in the cavity between the firewall and the back of the luggage shelf. I opted for the fan to push instead of pull in an attempt to not suck road papers up into the fan. The fins face the ground and should be positioned so road debris won't strike the face of the cooler damaging the fins. (Time will tell)

Sorry it took so long but here are the photos:

The last sentence of the first paragraph should say "remote oil filter" not "remote cooler".

Nicely thought out installs, Robert, and Mitch. I think I will have to do something more along the lines of yours, Mitch, as my pan is irs. Why did you elect to mount the filter horizontally? Is it not really messy to change?

Always nice to see installations that have some good design behind them.

I'm bummed out.......    Mitch's welds look better than mine.

Nice installations, you guys!

I put my cooler vertically in the left rear wheel well, too, and wired it up so it's all automatic (it shuts down with ignition off).  

Got too much to do looking out for nutty drivers trying to take "selfies" while driving nearby and/or good-looking women (or little kids - sometimes both) to wave at on the sidewalks to pay any attention to the temp gauge.  I just let the cooler take care of its self.  I trust my USA-made cooler temp switch more than my Chinese temp gauge and I can't smell the engine overheating from up front.