hi I have just purchased a 2010 based on 68 chassis a vintage speedster. My first VW. I also had a 997.1 Gt3
just wondered what can be done to improve the handling. Any tips or advise welcome.
thanks Darren
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VS speedsters were noted for supplying cars with a single front beam adjuster, no front anti-sway bar and no rear sway bar (camber compensator for non- IRS). If you are okay with front height - then add a front anti-sway bar. Near all VS's have swing axel rears so also add a rear camber compensator. If you want it lower in the front, there are dropped spinds that lower it 2.5" (and increase the width some too). Drum brakes inf front? Converting to disc will increase handling capability. Above are all relatively inexpensive if you can do the work yourself.
Further inprovements come with better shocks, alloy wheels, and better tires. If your car came with std 4 bolt wheels - decide first if you are okay with that or want to go with Porsche 5 lug pattern or old Porsche Wide-5s. Here it gets expensive!
I probably should have started with a good alignment with caster shims for the front - but if you start doing the mods above - I'd wait til after to have it aligned. Be sure to also check the front wheel bearing for proper adjustment.
Thanks WolfGang
it does have disc brakes on the front. Just had 4 new adjustable AVO make shocks fitted.
I'm new to beetle suspension. Where are the best places to get anti sway bars and camber compensator from. I’m in the UK
regards Darren
Start by joining Speedsters.com in the UK. (Click on the highlight - it’s a link)
There should be both owners and suppliers on there that can point you to local part and enhancement options so you can find not only what you need, but the best places to get it, too.
Buying stuff from the USA might be a last option after VAT and all that jazz adds to your cost.
A front anti-sway bar, a rear camber compensator and a set of Koni or Bilstein shocks should be on your list, but you should also read this:
https://www.aircooled.net/vw-h...g-suspension-tuning/
Good luck!
I probably should have mentioned tire air pressure too - many want to pump tires up to 28-32 psi which gives you very poor handling on the Speedster built on a bug chassis. Think the very brief VS Owners Manual says 18-20 front and 23-26 rear?
I have Addco sway bars (from years ago) on my CMC - think they are still around but EMPI has taken over on Air-Cooled VW parts and they do make anit-sway bars/camber compensators. I'd check with locak VW bug club and see what's available in UK. Even the 3/8" dia stock VW sedan front sway bar would be better than none. Shipping would be a real killer and too big to fit in a suit case. CSP (Germany) makes top quality VW bug parts in Europe. CIP1 in Calif has great online catalog to see what is available.
Mind the Gap!
Darren Waller posted:hi I have just purchased a 2010 based on 68 chassis a vintage speedster. My first VW. I also had a 997.1 Gt3
just wondered what can be done to improve the handling. Any tips or advise welcome.
thanks Darren
I dunno. Mine handles like a GT3 straight outta the box.
I have an earlier stock Vintage Speedster (one of Kirk's earlier builds late 90s early 2000. I have a 997 and a 912 (with Bilsteins all the way around, race aligned and corner balanced) and the VW swing axle certainly has a mind_of_its_own. I sourced a camber compensator from CB Performance (I'm in the US) that I can't wait to install it. Currently, I need to replace the rear shocks, because the car squats and I scrape the exhaust turn-down tip in 1st, 2nd and sometimes 3rd gear. I'm also looking for a front sway bar. I have not decided to go drop spindles, but I might later. Currently running Porsche 5x130 bolt pattern so I can swap wheel sets between the Speedster and 912.
Shocks don't raise ride height, a torsion bar adjustment will. Shocks control ride quality, not height.
DannyP posted:Shocks don't raise ride height, a torsion bar adjustment will. Shocks control ride quality, not height.
But they do help with stiffness, travel and damping. I had a similar problem with bottoming out. I put Bilsteins on the rear and the bottoming went away. So much so that we were able to lower the rear. No more bumping the sump and no degradation in ride quality.
How low can you go?
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Terry Nuckels posted:DannyP posted:Shocks don't raise ride height, a torsion bar adjustment will. Shocks control ride quality, not height.
But they do help with stiffness, travel and damping. I had a similar problem with bottoming out. I put Bilsteins on the rear and the bottoming went away. So much so that we were able to lower the rear. No more bumping the sump and no degradation in ride quality.
Agreed, you said it better.
Yes. New shocks to control squat. But I've been reading about kafer bars. I have already added an intermediate and HD transaxle mount and so now it's about the fine tuning.
That said, I'm interested in the progression of his thread to see what Darren decides to do. I don't want to sink too much money Into the speedster because I have another project, but the Speedster is fun - way funner than my 997. It's hard not to tinker.
Terry, nice set up!
This is not my thread. I'm going back to the sidelines.
Thank you for all you advice guys. Parts are relatively cheap and its great to tinker with these cars.
Does anyone know if Vintage speedster use a sock length front axel beam or do they narrow them. I have seen various front sway bars for sale and some manufactures mention fits narrowed front bean.
Thanks Darren
The other option is to completely change everything and install a Mendeola Suspension. 
The Mendeola kits do like nice. But I wasn't thinking of spending that much as its just a car to cruise around in the summer.
Independent front and rear suspension will turn it into a better car. I'm not doing any racing with it so I guess i,m just wanting to get the best I can out of the available VW parts.
Darren: I believe that the "normal" front beam on a Vintage has always been "normal" VW width. Once in a great while someone got a narrowed front beam for some custom purpose (usually to cram wide wheels under there), but you should be OK with an anti-sway bar for a stock front beam. I'll dig around and see if I can find the beam dimensions for you so you can check yours before ordering.
A stock VW bar was, IIRC, 3/8" thick. I am running 1969 IRS with a 3/4" bar front and rear and while it really stiffens things up, it also really stiffens things up - so road vibration becomes more pronounced. A 1/2"-ish bar on the front should make a big improvement - something you'll really notice - and that will probably be enough for most driving. I mean, you're not heading to Goodwood with it are you? 
Edit: found something from Airkweld on Youtube for you:
Hi Gordon. No not heading for Goodwood lol More of a just woft along in the sun.
I guess I may just go with the front anti sway bard and a rear camber compensator kit. May try the caster shims.
Would love to go all out making it all independent but im not racing it.
A front anti- sway bar and either camber compensator (swingaxle) or rear anti- sway bar (irs) will transform how these cars feel. I believe that Vintage Speedsters use stock width front beams (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). A transaxle mid-mount like the Berg (click on it to see it) will keep the front trans mount from tearing apart (and nose cone from breaking) from hard acceleration and a kafer bar (it could be as simple as welding tubing between the shock tower tops and then down each side to the ends of the frame horns) will go a long way to stiffening up the frame horns, and if you're really serious, a rear engine mount like Bruce's would ensure no engine twisting.
If you're truly serious about getting the most out of your car, Konis (start with the fronts on the softest setting, otherwise it really will ride like a brick!), Bilsteins or some other high performance shock absorbers (anybody remember what Ted put on his car?)will take you to the next level.
There is talk in another thread of using a trans strap (popular with the off road crowd) that surrounds the trans at the rear and mid-point, and while those work well enough off road (they're designed to keep buggies and baja bugs from tearing up mounts and nose cones when landing after leaving the ground) but I'm of the understanding that there can still be enough movement (the frame horns can still move) to allow some wheel hop on the street, and that's what breaks side gears/end gears (and sometimes even the pinion gear itself). I won't even mention how heavy they are. A kafer bar of some sort, whether home built or bought, is the better choice.
A further note on mid mounts- the Berg unit may seem expensive, especially when you look at the mounts with the red polyurethane pads for $100 less (and don't require welding) but those mounts don't totally stop up/down nose cone movement. Now, they are heavy, weighing well over 5 lbs, so I did this
and got it down to just under 3 lbs. I was pretty proud of myself, I might add! But then my buddy Bruce pointed out I was polishing a turd (and we all know you can't really polish a turd- but you can roll it in glitter!) and he was right, so at some point I'll be making it out of aluminum and it will weigh less than 2 lbs. And you really don't want to know how long all those holes and grinding/filing took...Al
PS- @Darren Waller- Definitely pay attention to caster and get a degree or 2 more in there- it's for your own safety!
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Alb, I have an STC (Supplemental type Certificate) for an instrument panel in a Beechcraft Bonanza. It's a one time only, field approval. If I wanted to sell either the plans or product a kit for sale the FFA would have demanded testing to destruction. Since I only had one Bonanza it was not an option.
So, the question occurs to me; how do you know when you have enough holes?
That's a lot of holes!
When the part falls apart....... 
Jim Gilbert - Madison, Mississippi posted:Alb, I have an STC (Supplemental type Certificate) for an instrument panel in a Beechcraft Bonanza. It's a one time only, field approval. If I wanted to sell either the plans or product a kit for sale the FFA would have demanded testing to destruction. Since I only had one Bonanza it was not an option.
So, the question occurs to me; how do you know when you have enough holes?
That's a lot of holes!
Looking at Al's mid-mount, one is reminded of the motto of a certain ham-handed hick-town hack from farm country (who should be working right now, but it's raining... again): "tighten it until it strips or snaps, then back it off an eighth-turn".
I can't give you a definition of too many holes, but I know it when I see it.
That's too many holes.
I dunno......It kinda has that "Steam Punk" thing goin' for it, don't-cha think?
Gordon Nichols posted:Darren: I believe that the "normal" front beam on a Vintage has always been "normal" VW width. Once in a great while someone got a narrowed front beam for some custom purpose (usually to cram wide wheels under there), but you should be OK with an anti-sway bar for a stock front beam. I'll dig around and see if I can find the beam dimensions for you so you can check yours before ordering.
A stock VW bar was, IIRC, 3/8" thick. I am running 1969 IRS with a 3/4" bar front and rear and while it really stiffens things up, it also really stiffens things up - so road vibration becomes more pronounced. A 1/2"-ish bar on the front should make a big improvement - something you'll really notice - and that will probably be enough for most driving. I mean, you're not heading to Goodwood with it are you?
Edit: found something from Airkweld on Youtube for you:
Thanks Gordon. The video has the information I needed.
I just ordered a stock OEM 1/2" front sway bar along with the bushings and clips for my VS Speedster with adjustable stock width beam and ball joints. The speedster is not lowered. It looks like the lower arms when the wheels are on the ground are close to horizontal even though the beam was adjusted a little lower than where VS sets them at the factory. I don't believe I will have any issues with the 1/2" OEM stabilizer bar hitting the beam at the extreme ends of suspension travel.
I have already noted that the two lower bumber bracket U-bolts used to secure the bracket to the lower beam may need to be shortned, repositioned or modified, but some here have had no issues mointing even the larger 3/4" bar - straight bolt on. Though some using the 'lowered' sway-bar had some interference issues with the bar and bumper bracket which required a 'notch' on the lower part of the front bumber bracket to gain clearance.
The camber compensator will be mounted at the same time or after the front sway is mounted, but not before I installed four new KYB G2 shocks. I'm getting wheel hop on hard acceleration and if the shocks don't put a damper on the wheel hop, I'll need to look into adding an engine support brace and or kafer/truss/traction bar. This all assumes I don't need to replace any rear end components due to wear and tear (torsion bars, bushings, etc...)
I have already mounted a transaxle mid mount and a HD rear transaxle mount with steel strap, though not sure how much the strap kit will help on a street car.
I'm running light weight Fuch alloys and so I'm relatively light back there. I'm trying to get the best bang for the buck/mod on this summer car. I'm resisting the urge to install drop spindles.
Does anyone know how JPS sets up there suspension ride height on their base cars? The height of the center of the rear fender opening Comes to the top of the rim on JPS cars. Where VS sets their base ride height to where the center of their rear fender opening is 1-1.5" above the rim. Is JPS cranking down on the beam adjuster to lower the front end the corresponding amount or do they use drop spindles on there base build? I believe the JPS bodies are similar in dimensions to Kirk's old VS bodies
I'll submit JPS sets ride height by "TLAR" or "that looks about right". Personally, I believe in using scales and corner-weighing the car to set the suspension up.
Is it possible your rear suspension is so low that it's hitting the stops under hard acceleration? This will give you wheel hop. Raise it a little and retry.
Rear of car is VS stock height but I believe the original Monroe shocks. They are pretty shot and need to be replaced as the first step to resolve squat and most of the wheel hop during spirited stop light to stop light fun.
The exhaust turn-down tip scraping the ground and suspension squat makes for mission control launch and fireworks.
Going to turn the tip counter clock wise and point exit to the rear corner horizontally and that should cut down on the noise and debris - should also gain a bit of ground clearance.
CB Performance Camber Compensator installed along with two new KYB G2 shocks in the rear. The rear end seems more located. Next weekend I will install the front KYBs and 1/2" anti-sway bar.
The camber compensator raised the rear end a 1/4".
The Speedster will never drive or handle like my 912 or 997 but then I'm having more fun with the Speedster trying to do the most I can (best bang for the buck mods) given what it is.
I might go to dropped spindles. If I'm unavme to get the right stance given the front beam adjustment range. Currently, there is a slight take to the stance.
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The modifications you're making will change the character of the car. You'll see a huge improvement. Too bad the builders did not install caster shims, sway bars and camber compensators during the build. The cars are really unsafe without these. I also have the KYB G2 shocks and have been very pleased with them.
Having owned an original 356SC, I was looking for that same handling. I think I'll get there...eventually. You'll find that the car will handle best with a full tank and a passenger. I'm still tweaking mine.
Lots of knowledgeable folks here willing to share what they know. You're in the right place.
Thanks Jim
Many thanks lots of good information. I have a 997.1 GT3 , but that has spent most of the summer in the garage since i got my speedster.
Installed the front KYB G2 this afternoon, but had issues with the OEM slide-on clips. Going to go with the aftermarket clips that I've seen being used on some Speedsters here. I don't have a tall lift so I couldn't get a good angle using my extra large channel lock. Going to drive the car now and see how it feel with the new shocks and rear camber compensator. I'm running 19/22 PSI f/r with 'stock' Vintage ride height. It's a stock 12mm sway bar and looking at full droop, the bar will clear the front lower bumper bracket square tube and u-bolt spacer/nut (VS owners will know what I'm talking about.
Not just VS with the front anti-sway bar to bumper bracket interference. FF/CMC required a simple mod to brackets.
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"Installed the front KYB G2 this afternoon, but had issues with the OEM slide-on clips."
Can you explain what those "clips" are? I'm drawing a blank.
Also, try running your tire pressure up to 20F/24R if the ride at 19/20 seems OK. Those extra two pounds might make a difference in handling without becoming too harsh.
Front sway bar helps a lot. You would enjoy the results of installing beam braces as well. Much more stable ride than stock without the braces. CSP makes a great set which are simple to install and add a lot of support to the suspension.
What’s a beam brace
So bottom and top ones are available. Top would be difficult to fit on a fiberglass car though. These are widely used by off road dune buggies. Empi ones look to be okay quality and reasonable price - CSP makes them too but $ ouch! 2nd photo is Empi ones.
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Mine were about $300 and EMPI makes a cheaper set but I don't put cheap stuff on my Speedster given a choice, especially handling related things. Here'a a little more info --I hope this is readable but if not you can see it on the CiP1 site. I am glad to have the beam braces on my VS--the car has a more solid feeling with them.
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Gordon Nichols posted:"Installed the front KYB G2 this afternoon, but had issues with the OEM slide-on clips."
Can you explain what those "clips" are? I'm drawing a blank.
Sorry about that perfect example of a vague and ambiguous modifier.
I meant I had issues securing the sway bar with the stock OEM type clamps:
https://www2.cip1.com/ProductD...e=VWC-111-498-101-A2
I'm going to have another round with these clamps next weekend when I have access to a two post lift. I just didn't have enough room underneath to get the proper angle and leverage. Probably worth it to get a HD mounting kit with the nut and bolt. Now where are my c-clamps.
Jack Crosby posted:Mine were about $300 and EMPI makes a cheaper set but I don't put cheap stuff on my Speedster given a choice...
You went Raby some time ago - there is no going backwards now 
Have you installed castor shim?
You need 2 on each side. They will change the location of your front bumpers a BUNCH, but are really required if you want to drive the car!
You'll have to do the modification Wolfgang mentioned.
My car doesn't have bumpers. I don't have this problem, but it did occur about 40 years ago when I built my CMC Speedster.
Adding 2 shims on each side will give you about 6 degrees of castor on the beam. If the length of the bumper mount is, say, 24" the bumper will move up about 2 1/2".
See the attached PDF
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@Jack Crosby wrote- "Mine were about $300 and EMPI makes a cheaper set but I don't put cheap stuff on my Speedster given a choice, especially handling related things."
I always knew you were a smart man, Jack...
PS- ^^^ What @Jim Gilbert - Madison, Mississippi said about caster shims- for higher speed play they are essential!
http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=12_384_2917
If you don't know what you need beforehand, buy 2 sets (they're cheap enough), install 1 and take the other with you when getting the car aligned. If you don't use the other set you can sell it here or leave them loose on the garage bench as a conversation piece. Let all your friends guess what they're for...