Big engines . . .can they be reliable too?

I am doing the research on having a Speedster built this spring and I want to know if engines over 1776cc can be as reliable as a stock engine. Specifically, I am debating a stock 1600cc with doghouse cooler and stock tranny versus a "mild" non-stroker 1910cc with doghouse cooler plus an external cooler and fan and a 3.88 tranny. Either way, the deck lid will have additional louvers installed.

I know all about the care and feeding (valves, carb sync, etc) of VW engines, so I don't mind doing that stuff - I even like doing it! That said, tell me exactly how much MORE I will have to do it on a 1910cc. How much MORE will I be frustrated due to reliability and running issues. How much LESS (if any) life will I get from a well-built 'big' engine?

A bit more about the environment in which I live: 6000 to 9000 ft of elevation for most of my driving. The car will be garaged and used only on nice days, but at this altitude, a nice day in June can start out at 30 degrees farenheit! So . . . consider that too when you answer.

Thanks in advance for your recommendations and input!

Regards,
Alan

So far, my CB Perf. 1915 doesn't require any more maintenance than a stock 1600 except for dealing with the occasional clogged jet in the Webers. You could use a different carb (or EFI) and forego that little chore.

Alan, the answer is yes, depending on who builds it, what components are used, and how much care is taken.

Lane is right, a 1915cc offers a VERY good compromise of power, torque, low maintainance, longevity, and price.

It all depends on what YOU want. I wouldn't build a motor smaller than 1915, which is stock 69mm stroke and the largest barrels that fit a type1, 94mm. Serious money can be added once you start to stroke the motor, do the heads, change the cam and carbs, etc. As the power levels go up, reliability doesn't have to suffer, but longevity will, typically 50 to 60,000(most likely 40K) miles POSSIBLY for a big powerhouse. The milder you go, the longer it will last.

I have a Jake Raby 2165, 78mm stroke that revs to 6500 with ease and confidence. It has close to 15000 on it and is just really broken in, as far as I am concerned. Mechanically bulletproof but I am sure the heads and rings will show some age in about 25000 miles more. It took me three years to get it to 15000, so I have MANY more left before I need to worry.

Do a lot of research, make your choice, and then pay your money!

HMMMMM 6-9000 feet, maybe a smaller low compression motor with a mild turbo? Sounds fun to me!

I agree, type I 1915cc motor will produce enough torque - hp to scoot you down the road and remain a reliable, cool running motor. ~Alan

Everything that everyone already. Additionally, don't needlessly shy away from a mild stroker. We stroked my little 1835 and it's much more motor now. No real lost of reliability and I don't expect to lose much longevity as a result either, but the extra power is really right there.

Just a thought . .

Alan,
I'm not much of a motor guy but this summer I had Pat Downs at CB Performance build me an engine (2005cc it's listed on their website in turnkeys) and it was literally a bolt in job. The engine fired right up and the difference from my previous stock 1600 was incredible. I think Pat said it was somewhere in the 145-150 hp range and it pulls wonderfully through all four gears, I haven't even scratched the top end yet. I had the help of a mechanic buddy of mine put it in and he said he's never seen an engine go in and start right up as easily as this one did, we didn't even have to fiddle with the carbs. Other than oil changes I haven't had asingle issue yet (I only have a little over 1000 miles on it now). It was 32 degrees here today and the car hsa been sitting for 1 week, I got in it, pumped the pedal four or five times and it fired right up and ran perfectly for a little trip to my dads house.
It's not to take away from other builders but if you're considering an engine by all means call Pat and discuss options with him. He was very helpful and a class guy.

If it helps refine the answers a bit, this would specifically be the 1910 as supplied in Vintage Speedsters. I would appreciate feedback from owners of the VS 1910 as far as driveability, reliability, performance.

Thanks for all the replies so far. This forum is going to be a big help.

As an aside, I am reading the book "A Passion for Porsches" which is a reprint of "Porsches Past and Present" by Denis Jenkinson. If you want to do some winter Porsche reading, I couldn't imagine a better book. I'm 44 years old, but it reads as well as the first time I read it back in college. Highly recommended!

Drive on,
Alan

Go with a computer controlled, fuel injected, turbo charged water cooled inline (VW) or flat (Subaru) 4 cyl 2 litre engine and it won't matter what altitude you drive it at. I am a bit biased, you know. But this is not the old air cooled forum, is it?

grins

Tomm

Tomm: if he's looking at Vintage, I doubt those type of engine alternatives are available to him.

Alan: Have another company build your motor and deliver it to Vintage if you go with their replica. My bias' were made known on this forum years ago; suffice to say 1915 is not a big VW engine and should perform admirably for a long time if built right initially and not abused subsequently.

You really need to know who built your engine.

That 2165 mentioned earlier in this thread sounds like a real good example of right-sized mechanicals.

Just my 2mm's worth on one of my favorite subjects; the myths of motors

Ditto on what Paul said.
He's a very wise man.

Im sure it has been covered a lot before . . . but that information might be pretty old now. Manufacturers change, so . . . .

I have heard good things about CB Performance, read some rather bad things about GEX (though they were old posts). Is GEX worth considering now? What about the Scat motors from J.C. Whitney? The motors from Midwest Motorworks? Who else should I consider? I am willing to pay for ALL NEW rather than re-built. If I'm going to buy a new car, I'd rather not have to open the engine lid and always have to look at a ding in some re-used fan shroud, or always wonder why it started leaking Castrol after only a thousand miles! I am not looking to save a few hundred dollars for compromised performance, aesthetics, or reliability.

Oh, in keeping with the spirit of the car, It'll be a flat-four air-cooled engine. I respect the water-cooled users and understand their decision, but when I open the lid, I want to see something that at least looks close to Dr. Porsche's design.

Cheers mates,
Alan

Alan,
You're right, things change... I've been shopping for a used or rebuilt Type 1 for my current v-dub and for the prices I'm seeing, I hope that 'things' are much, much better!

The 1776 that became the basis for my first replicar-rebuild was that GEX engine. It was OK, but strictly VW, nothing 'imaginative' or likely to test its metal. $3500 later it was a strong, strong reliable engine.The upgrades that went into it are still the backbone of most street upgrades. To the best of my knowledge, that engine is still going strong in another member's replicar (and his foot is a lot heavier than mine!)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that a lot of us fear a turnkey engine sold by the bright-shiny-big-page-advertisers. Pat Downs, Jake Raby, Art Thraen are quality engine builders and all have a variety of offerings. I'd sooner see you spend your money where you know the pedigree of your engine.

There isn't a lot of 'new' technology in air-cooled engine platforms but there is a lot of lesser parts that make them go boom!

Well... I took the CB Performance turn-key 2110 plunge a couple years ago. I now have 14,000 flawless miles on it. In the past, I've certainly had my share of "junk" motors so I did my research, crossed my fingers and went for it. Could not be happier!

GEX--- they spend money on glossy adds, not quality parts for your engine. CB Performance, they build an engine from parts that they have developed, tested and proven over time and miles. Jake Raby, I have no personal experience with him, but his engine customers seem to be happy, and for what he charges, that says something. I think that you are talking about a 1915 CC engine, not 1905. The size 1915 in a VS supplied engine compared with a 1915 Pat Downs built CB Performance engine are different animals. They also will cost different amounts of money. I am not knocking Kirk or VS. But a stock VW engine with 94 Pistons and cylinders installed is different than a forged counterweighted crank, CB heads, correct cam etc. engine like Lane has. What I am trying to say is that engine size is not the only factor in determining longevity or power to the street. And in Speedsterdom, a rule of thumb is, if you want to go fast, it's gonna cost money. Welcome to the Madness! I have a stock 1600 with 40 Weber carbs. The engine is quiet, smooth, has run flawlessly for 15,000 miles and I keep up with the pack on SOC runs. But I've got a CB Performance 2110 sitting on the garage floor, waiting for me to turn the wrenches and have it ready for Morro Bay.

Hey Will, If you need a hand putting that 2110 in let me know, be glad to help out.
Mark

Well said Will.
My worst ever experience was brought to me by GEX.

Fast, Reliable, Affordable...

Pick any two.

angela

I have to chime in....I disagree with Paul regarding VS and engines...Kirk now uses Roland to build the high-end motors. I had a 2275 (160 HP) that ran like a raped ape and was reliable as hell. Ran cool all the time and started like a new Porsche. Roland can get the job done at a great price and his service is second-to-none.

Best of luck.

BB

Billy is right. Roland at Vintage can build you anything you want.

Good to hear some improvements under the hood have evolved. It's no fun to buy the fun car and be afraid to take it out...

When I was posting about a VS 1915, I was referring to the standard, "Mexi-Crate" 1915 that has been offered in the past. Roland can build any size and level of engine. But there is a big difference in engines with the same 1915 size. I really mean that size is only one factor in determining the performance and reliability of a VW motor. No disrespect for Roland or Kirk was intended.

Will-when did Vintage stop using the "Mexicrate" and when did they start using "Roland"? Who is Roland---works at Vintage?---Jack

Roland builds most of Vintages engines now. He has his own shop(Speedster Performance) where he builds them and has another garage at Vintage where he installs and dials them in. He stands behind his work 100% He keeps trying to talk Kirk into listing more options( stroker,head work, cams,turbo,carbs,fuel injection,ad infinitum) but right now you have to know what you want and ask for it.I was at his shop yesterday and he has some interesting projects going.I really like the type3 Karman Ghia that he is starting with a type 1 upright 2 liter turbo monster. He posts on this site sometimes and I'm sure would be glad to answer any questions.
Mark

how long has he been building for vintage, i have a late 07 with 1915 motor. bill

You can get Roland at:

rasconmotorsports@yahoo.com

or

speedsterperformance@gmail.com

He is an experienced, stand-up engine builder with great prices!

Tell Him Billy B. & Mark sent ya'!

William ,

I've been building motor's for Kirk for about ten year's off and on , and worked for him as a mechanic for seven year's.I've been street racing and drag racing vw's for twenty four year's worked around Kirk's car's around twelve year's.

The mystery man appears!
Good to hear from ya Roland. From time to time, I've heard reports about stroker motors coming in VS cars.
I always wondered what was going on because VS never mentioned any such thing (that I knew of)..
Anyway, don't be a stranger around here. We can you use your knowledge!

Hey Rollo! Are you going to Morro? Call me tomorow.



Mark

ERNIE and who ever else you guy's will be hearing more from me you can e mail me any time and i'll respond as fast as I can. And mark it's looking like might go. I'll call you tomorrow.


THANK'S ROLLO

A 2,110 cc is the perfect compromise of power, longevity and reliability. If I had to choose I wouldn't use cylinders larger than 90.5 mm.