I am quite happy working for others. Independent business owners have always earned my admiration, and when possible, my business.
Here is some interesting information about legal shenanigans that occurred recently.
Justin was the original purchaser in 2017. Matt acquired it a couple of years ago.
They bought the company so I believe they were legally allowed to say the company built over 3,300 Speedsters. Very dishonest advertising in my opinion, but probably not fraud.
Two weeks ago, at a C&C here in So Cal, I approached my speedy after walking about to find a few people closely inspecting my car. I asked them if they had any questions, and soon learned they were employees at VS in Arizona. They worked on interiors. Nice fellows, and looking back I think it is fair to say they had no idea the end was approaching. I do not know why all three were in California, but I did not sense they had any ulterior motive - they were three friends at a car show and were pleased to spot my single replica speedster to inspect (not counting Jim’s JPS coupe visible in the background).
Sad all around.
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@Stan Galat posted:Respectfully, I'm not sure anybody who's never owned and operated a small business knows what they're about before they step off the cliff. I sure didn't. I thought I did, but how could I? There are way, way too many things you don't learn about yourself until you are freefalling.
I can tell you this - if you're the "mo' money, mo' money, mo' money" guy, you're not going to make it. Period, full stop.
The guys who successfully build and operate their businesses shove all of their chips into the middle of the table on a do-or-die bet many, many times over the course of building the thing. They suffer through a lot of lean times, even as their business is growing and expanding. The guys who just want to pull money out end up like this.
There are no slam-dunks. You get out and do battle every day - not with your competition (there's always more than enough to go around), but with yourself - your own fears, insecurities, personality flaws, and risk tolerance (or intolerance) level.
You may know what you're about after a couple of years, but most likely you'll be surprised with your capacity or inability on a daily basis forever.
This exactly. Going into my 19th year of being in the car building/restoration business and there have been plenty of lean times, frustrating times, eating jobs and dreams crushed. I still love cars and while I never seen the growth that I wanted, I am content with the direction that we are going in. Looking forward to an awesome 2023.
To Troy Sloan's comment, thanks for that background. But to clarify, in a legal sense the original sale to Justin was an asset sale as opposed to "buying the company". He did not purchase it as a going concern but rather bought the assets and wiped the balance sheet clean. The key point would be what rights to trademarks and trade names they acquired. As an asset sale and a total restart of the operation with all new personnel, this is clearly not continuous operation of a going concern. And then the transition between Justin and Matt, my impression was that the business had failed, in which case it may have gone through a bankruptcy...again, not continuous operation. I'm not a lawyer but I believe their claims would legally be considered fraudulent
Anyone who has been a victim of Vintage Speedster is encouraged to file a case with the AZ attorney generals office and also with the Goodyear police dept.
When calling the Goodyear police please reference the attached case number. They are compiling all victims together to file felony charges and working with the AZ attorney general office.
I was at Vintage yesterday and they are closed up.
3 customers cars in the showroom all w license plates. When I left the PD the officer was driving over there to gather info and hopefully try to contact the owners and landlord.
AZ attorney general site:
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Following Adam's lead (we ran into each other at the shuttered shop), I filed reports yesterday w/ the Goodyear PD and the AZ state AG's office. I would strongly encouraged any other VS victims to do likewise. It's pretty straightforward and the more the critical mass, the better likelihood of getting action. You just call the Goodyear PD office and speak to an officer who will take the info. For the state AG, search for the AZ attorney general office, click on "Complaints", then "Consumer Complaints" and it will lead you thru an online filing. While I would temper my hopes about recovering funds, I also know from experience w/ Matt not to trust his pronouncement that this failure has busted him. He's been setting up this exit for months...in June he lost his legal appeal w/ VS Cal, in July he sold his AZ home, he was giving encouraging build signals to buy time, then poof. It's time for a little personal accountability, and both criminal and civil pressure can be brought. Victims, rise up!
When a business owner " prepares for Bankruptcy " and makes certain financial moves within 6 months of filing Bankruptcy, to benefit themselves it is known as "creating Insider status " and is frowned upon heavily by the bankruptcy courts and they can, charge the individual accordingly.
@Dave Graziano posted:To Troy Sloan's comment, thanks for that background. But to clarify, in a legal sense the original sale to Justin was an asset sale as opposed to "buying the company". He did not purchase it as a going concern but rather bought the assets and wiped the balance sheet clean. The key point would be what rights to trademarks and trade names they acquired. As an asset sale and a total restart of the operation with all new personnel, this is clearly not continuous operation of a going concern. And then the transition between Justin and Matt, my impression was that the business had failed, in which case it may have gone through a bankruptcy...again, not continuous operation. I'm not a lawyer but I believe their claims would legally be considered fraudulent
Thanks for that clarification Dave. I was not aware it was just "an asset sale" and have been under the false impression that they were legally allowed to say they had built over 3,300 Speedsters. That certainly does sound like fraud to me.
Yes, that was in the "legal shenanigans" provided by Jon T above - a legal decision on royalty payments rendered in June this year, providing some legal history
Guys. most people in his position prepare and count on the “you can’t get blood out of a turnip” strategy. I’m sure there will be a long line in bankruptcy court. They will determine if any improprieties have occurred but that doesn’t mean there is any money to be distributed to debtors. Not sure where customers are in that line compared to debtors. Best of luck to all who put down their hard earned cash. Not to mention the disappointment of not getting your car!
Just to avoid any confusion for anyone who reads the legal document that Jon T posted a link to:
References to Vintage Speedsters of California is referring to Kirk Duncan who sold the company in 2017.
References to Vintage Motorcar Ltd is referring to Matt Teerink of Arizona, the person who has declared bankruptcy.
Greg Leach's name shows up in the document because he gave a deposition in the case. Greg is the owner of Vintage Motorcars of California and was not a party in the case between Kirk and Matt.
@MikeM posted:Guys. most people in his position prepare and count on the “you can’t get blood out of a turnip” strategy. I’m sure there will be a long line in bankruptcy court. They will determine if any improprieties have occurred but that doesn’t mean there is any money to be distributed to debtors. Not sure where customers are in that line compared to debtors. Best of luck to all who put down their hard earned cash. Not to mention the disappointment of not getting your car!
Not that every person with a deposit shouldn't try, but getting legal judgement is far different from collecting on the debt. If trying to get him jail time for fraud is the goal, have at it but I'd be surprised if deposit holders get more than pennies on the dollar back. Bank comes first, then secured creditors (whoever he buys bodies from, engines etc) and then you
I have contacted the attorneys general and will fill out the form . I have also contacted the Goodyear police and will explain my story , I just waiting for a call back . I can’t believe he was a policemen ! I hope everybody effected does the same , I understand it’s going to be very hard getting any money back . But it does not sit right and collecting deposits after deposits then delay people till it just oozes fraud . Any help or advice is welcome . Thank you
Yes please just call and report.
The assigned officer actually just called me and what they are really looking for is proof of fraud to file criminal charges. Mainly him either showing a car or selling the same car to multiple people. So far we have one case of this where he was sending progress pics of a car to someone then sold that car to someone else. This is going to be hard to prove since most people have no idea where their car actually went that was in process or maybe was never kn process yet Matt was sending pics. Again this all needs to be provable and the AZ attorney general will need to piece all this together.
I don’t know who owns those 3 cars in his showroom however they are still waiting on a call from the landlord to get in the building and run plates. I know one has a Hawaii plate on it. I’m sure at some point here they will be all reported as stolen vehicles.
When I was briefly chatting with the three VS employees standing next to my VMC speedster, I asked them how many cars per month they were building. One of them offered they had three cars just waiting for an engine.
I wonder if those are the cars visible through the front door.
To Jon T, no, these were cars in the front showroom that had been there for months - I had been told previously they were customer cars, they had plates on them; one was from a guy who returned his car to have them do an EV conversion.
From the outside we could not see into the shop in the rear. I know from being in there 3 weeks ago there were a good half dozen cars in process in the shop and the regular comment was they were awaiting engines (I believe they were shy on engine casings). There's no telling whether those cars are also trapped in there, along with tools and fixtures. There are still decorations on the walls and Matt's personal classic stock car (an old Studebaker GT Hawk) is sitting outside in the parking lot. It looks like a sudden closing with no notice so I suspect the shop might look much like I saw it.
As for your question on run rate, they said they were producing 5-6 cars per month pre-Covid, and then when parts shortages occurred they were squeezing out 1-2 per month. Matt told me this but I heard the same in the shop, so I actually believe that.
Ok so I just spoke w Goodyear Police. They stated they have so many people reporting fraud at this point they request people quit calling.
They would like all people who have been affected to contact the AZ atty generals office in which I provided a link above. They need to take the case before any criminal charges can take place.
Again please refrain from calling Goodyear police as i mentioned above. They have what they need.
@ADAM SCHROEDER posted:Ok so I just spoke w Goodyear Police. They stated they have so many people reporting fraud at this point they request people quit calling.
They would like all people who have been affected to contact the AZ atty generals office in which I provided a link above. They need to take the case before any criminal charges can take place.Again please refrain from calling Goodyear police as i mentioned above. They have what they need.
That escalated quickly.
Hopefully someone in San Mateo, California can get Sheriff Carlos Bolanos to send a group of four officers to Minnesota to raid and arrest Matt Teerink.
@Andrew1111 I think your best bet is to solicit as many people as you can find who placed a deposit and did not get a car. Maybe you can find 20 or more. Then seek an Arizona attorney who would be willing to take your class action on a contingency basis. You may find a willing attorney if they think there is any money on the table. From the comments it appears there may be some criminal activity, which would bode well in a class action suit against a party declaring bankruptcy, but again, depending on how smart (and evil) a defendant may be, there may be no money. Sorry for your loss.
PS suing merely for revenge is a losing proposition, no matter how appealing that may be.
I hired a lawyer several weeks ago pursuing a refund against Vintage Speedsters of Arizona. They certainly have a leg up of what’s going on and can certainly help. Turner Law Firm in Glendale, AZ. (480)340-2184. Very easy to work with.
If the owner is a cop it's worth asking his department whether an internal affairs complaint/investigation has been generated.
Lots of cops have side hustles. IMHO it's not good policy for departments to allow it.
@edsnova posted:If the owner is a cop it's worth asking his department whether an internal affairs complaint/investigation has been generated.
Lots of cops have side hustles. IMHO it's not good policy for departments to allow it.
If he moved to Minnesota he's not a cop in Arizona anymore. Might be worth seeing if he's employed in Minnesota though.
Ah missed that part.
@americanworkmule posted:Hopefully someone in San Mateo, California can get Sheriff Carlos Bolanos to send a group of four officers to Minnesota to raid and arrest Matt Teerink.
Hell! Knowing Carlos...and I have for 30 yrs....he might have been an investor in Matt's Arizona con job. 
Anyone know what painter Vintage uses? My body has apparently stuck at the painter they use for months as they have been backed up, not sure if this is even true at this point but if it is I'd love to at least have a body to shop for my 1.5 year wait and 50% deposit.
Sam’s Auto Body in Phoenix
@Maurice Alma posted:Anyone know what painter Vintage uses? My body has apparently stuck at the painter they use for months as they have been backed up, not sure if this is even true at this point but if it is I'd love to at least have a body to shop for my 1.5 year wait and 50% deposit.
Unfortunately, I don’t see how the body shop could give you the body. They would have no proof it’s yours, and they may hold it on a mechanic’s lien against any money they are owed.
@LI-Rick posted:Unfortunately, I don’t see how the body shop could give you the body. They would have no proof it’s yours, and they may hold it on a mechanic’s lien against any money they are owed.
Exactly right. Besides Matt said that was my body
...I'll bet my VS deposit that the body in question is either not there or it's been promised to every other victim!
I spoke to the body shop and they haven’t had any speedster in months they said, mine was black and they mentioned they haven’t painted a black one in a while. My car was supposed to be completed in May 2022. Lies
@LI-Rick posted:Unfortunately, I don’t see how the body shop could give you the body. They would have no proof it’s yours, and they may hold it on a mechanic’s lien against any money they are owed.
My buddy just got nearly robbed of a 911. Took it to a Body shop to have it painted. He ran into a guy at a car show that asked him if he knew the shop was going under.
He stayed in LA and camped on their doorsteps until he got most of it back. Unfortunately, they were all disassembled. But he got them
Of course, he could talk to the owner and the property owner, which isn’t the case here. But I think receipts would go a long way a court of law.
I may have asked this before but is there not a way that the forum threads can jump to the last place you stopped reading when you open it again? Every forum I am part of does this and it makes re-opening threads like this much less frustrating. Thx.
@WNGD posted:I may have asked this before but is there not a way that the forum threads can jump to the last place you stopped reading when you open it again? Every forum I am part of does this and it makes re-opening threads like this much less frustrating. Thx.
When you go back to the thread click on "First unread post."
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@dlearl476 posted:My buddy just got nearly robbed of a 911. Took it to a Body shop to have it painted. He ran into a guy at a car show that asked him if he knew the shop was going under.
He stayed in LA and camped on their doorsteps until he got most of it back. Unfortunately, they were all disassembled. But he got themOf course, he could talk to the owner and the property owner, which isn’t the case here. But I think receipts would go a long way a court of law.
Completely different scenario. Your buddy owned the 911, had title. There is no ownership for a car under construction by a replica builder.
@edsnova posted:When you go back to the thread click on "First unread post."
I usually go through "newest speedster topics" on the home page where that option doesn't appear to be offered, no idea why.
If you go through the "Topics" tab and all topics there, it is. I guess I'll try to read a different way, thx. All these years here and I never saw that.
Holy S! Always knew that the Arizona operation was a little sketchy but didn’t know it would end like this. I am sad for the victims who put deposits in; I hope they can recoup their investments.