BIT THE BULLET !

Nice  can't wait to see the progress~

Excellent! I’ve been waiting for somebody to do an IRS Spyder.

Really pumped for you, Bruce. 

Good on ya, Bruce....that'll sure be a winner. Have you figured out and if so could you please describe a " simplified " wiring system needed to make that Soob work ? I'm wondering about speed sensors etc. 

Bruce,  you might want to consider looking at what ratio's you want in the 5 sp.  the LSD is a good choice even if it takes you higher. 

In a roadster or coupe getting the cruising speed to 2700 at 70 mph is a better fit for a quiet ride.  

In your case, the standard non turbo gear set will run 3200rpm at 70mph, which you might find noisy but on the other hand you will never hear that engine in an open air spyder.   It is an advantage though as you will always me in the power range.  

P.S. Subarugears has a calculator on their site.  

David Stroud posted:

Good on ya, Bruce....that'll sure be a winner. Have you figured out and if so could you please describe a " simplified " wiring system needed to make that Soob work ? I'm wondering about speed sensors etc. 

FYI, the subie tranny has a built in speed sensor which feeds the stock ECU and the DBWire pedal. Also most of them, ECU that is, will have a built in Cruise control program that you can access and build your own switches and add the micro switches to make it work.  My cruise is awesome and looking forward to using it for Carlisle this year.  So relaxing.

As for a speedometer the new VDO use a GPS sensor so your good there.  Now the tach I am not sure how it is wired.  Hope this helps you as you could plan to add those creature comforts if you want in the build before the carpets etc are in there. 

This is going to be 1 very cool car! If you need someone to bounce ideas off of for gear ratios (4 or 5 speed- and oh, would a 5 speed be ssoooo sweeet in such a light car!) just holler. And I'm drooling on the keyboard already...

@ALB   

Al, the gear sets are pretty fixed depending on the tranny and the lowest reversed R&P is a 3.91 ... just saying.  

 

Here is my  Existing tranny non turbo runs 3200ish rpm at 70mph

4.1  R&P 

 

1st gear 3.454 

2nd gear 2.062 

3rd gear 1.448 

4th gear 1.088 

5th gear 0.78

  tyres are 24.88 inches   if your running 16 inch 

 

If I ever pull the engine I am Proposing this NEW 5 sp Ratios

Change the R&P to 3.9   and  the fifth gear to 0.73.5     5th gear   

This would give you 2700 rpm at 70mph.   

  0.735    5th gear

Supposedly SG, has done a similar gear set from a turbo tranny and did this and with a light car the gear spacing is pretty good.   Go visit the gear set on their site there is a link to all the Subie trannies out there.  

...and holes, lots of holes...

As Colin Chapman of Lotus fame used to say, "Add lightness".

Al would agree with that, too.  

I'm envisioning slightly flared tires in the rear to accommodate the wider rear staggered wheels.  And maybe a light weight fast back hard top for long trips?

Ok - maybe not on the roof?

 

Kudos to Greg for moving the ball down the field and improving the product!

Looks like a really nice project, Bruce.  Looking forward to seeing the progress and I've been waiting for just this conversion - it just makes a whole lot of sense.  Stan would fit in it, too!   head totally above the windshield, but he'd fit.   

I'm a little cornfused about the gearing, though, Ray.....  

I may be wrong, but I think my wife's 2011 Outback (paddle-shift automatic) is running around 1800-2000 rpm, max, at 70mph - everything bone stock.  

I don't understand why your list shows something so much higher in RPMs at the same speed.  I may be confused about her rpm/speed, too, so I'll do a blast down RT 146 to the grocery store later today and make sure my memory is correct.

Thanks for the strokes !!  I knew some of you would be as excited as I am !  

David, I'm pretty good at wiring but this will be my first venture into a more complicated system and certainly more electronic controls than I have ever played with. I have the engine wiring sorted and tagged (well most of it anyway). I will be using a GPS speedo and the tach seems to be simple. I'm totally ignorant on the cold start/cold idle warm up process between the the Stinger ECU and the engine yet. Ive been told to "not worry about it and forgive the rough idle during warm-up" but I'm not so sure it has to be this way yet. Possibly the use of the Suby trans will provide some relief  here. I'm 95% sure that I will be using a nice sticky set of Vredestein 205/65R15 Sportrac5 tires with Gregs new aluminum wheels. Polished of course.

Gearing is on my list to work out with Mike down at Rancho. I really do appreciate any and all of your input in helping me select a suitable set of gears. Keeping in mind that I do drag race occasionally.

Greg is getting me a detached Spyder firewall which I will bring home to laminate it totally with 22 Ga. engine turned stainless steel like my Speedster was. So much stuff to think about !  LED lighting ! Roll bars !  Now the fun MADDNESS BEGINS ....Bruce

As you know, Greg, but just to clarify— those aren’t Spyders, they’re Runge handbuilts. 

Bob: IM S6 posted:

...and holes, lots of holes...

As Colin Chapman of Lotus fame used to say, "Add lightness".

Al would agree with that, too.  

Yes; yes I would! And now is the time to start thinking about it. This is a modern re-created aluminum bodied Spyder chassis- 

Serious question: At what point does light become weak? What is the formula to ascertain when you've gone to far with drilling holes?

That's a pretty tasty bullet you bit there, Aircooled!

Gordon you may be right on the new cars but the 5 sp tranny models are from 2009 in my car.  Not sure what model it is or will be in Bruce's from rancho. 

@ALB me thinks your holyer than thou.

He's "holyer" than Swiss cheese, Ray.

Panhandle - This is interesting writeup:

https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Lightening_holes

The 2016+ Miata ND model weighs 250# (2332# for MT) less than the previous model despite have extra electronics and comfort features.  Aluminum trunk/hood and front fenders plus many suspension parts.  No jack, no lug wrench, no spare tire! They call it gram conscious.  They even smoothed out the transmission case removing the exterior ribs.  Now there are cases of the trans twisting (mainly in Club models with LSD that are tracked) which causes the bearing and gears to mis-aligned - eating them and destroying 2 and 3rd gears.  They are on transmission revision 5 to fix the issue. Funny when you compare a Miata at 2300# to say a BMW Z4 at 3000#.  

@aircooled  Are going to do 205's on 5.5" wide wheels all the way around??? If so, how? 205's on a 4.5" would look goofy. The 185's on the 4.5s look a little pooched out. The 195's on the 5.5s look perfect. At least to me.

Are you going to run the VW front beam?

Danny went with a narrowed beam for more brake clearance, but if your not running Danny's brakes, would there be enough room for at least a 195 on a 5.5 up front?

Gets me athinkin. It's too late for my car, but if you can get someone to build a 550 with the suspension it should have, then you-go-boy. Maybe I'll sell mine and get the next one. Hahaha, Like that'll ever happen.

"Serious question: At what point does light become weak?"

Just a second before the part breaks in two.

Panhandle Bob posted:

Serious question: At what point does light become weak? What is the formula to ascertain when you've gone to far with drilling holes?

The formula to ascertain when you’ve gone too far with drilling holes: wait for a stress-crack. It’s less holes than that.

From my perspective, the Swiss cheese spyder pictured above is about 3x too many holes. That torsion tube is downright scary.

Plus it seems that random size or spaced holes would be structurally more resistant to vibration/fatigue cracking.  I've always been told to not just drill but to chamfer/smooth the edges of burrs. 

A friend spent $$$$$ on a road bike that was 10 pounds lighter than his previous bike. I asked him "Wouldn't it have been cheaper for you to lose 10 pounds instead"? 

@aircooled Bruce, looking forward to watching your project progress. Seeing all your previous projects, I'm sure this one will be another of your masterpieces. 

Kudos to Greg @Vintage Motorcars Inc for taking his Spyder production to the next level of quality & innovation! 

the 10lbs was between the ears blocking electrical conduction. : ) 

Drilling holes like crazy without some formula to know when enough is too much just seems nuts to me. A stress crack could ostensibly lead rather rapidly to some important parts departing from the car while driving.

Dangerous and expensive.

It seems to me the better idea is to use the lightest, strongest proven material available for the application and work on the drive train for some extra "go fast", or higher a better driver.

Put the drill away.

It seems like you are seeing this like almost everybody currently designing racing hardware, Bob. 

Stan Galat posted:

It seems like you are seeing this like almost everybody currently designing racing hardware, Bob. 

That that would be a complete coincidence,as you well know old buddy!

Taco Bell $1 specials, hella lot cheaper to lose weight:}

When I asked my Doctor what the best diet might be he said; …..." If it tastes good, spit it out ".

Panhandle Bob posted:

Drilling holes like crazy without some formula to know when enough is too much just seems nuts to me. A stress crack could ostensibly lead rather rapidly to some important parts departing from the car while driving.

Dangerous and expensive.

It seems to me the better idea is to use the lightest, strongest proven material available for the application and work on the drive train for some extra "go fast", or higher a better driver.

Put the drill away.

I meant hire a driver, not get a taller one, oops!

Collecting empirical data to determine pass or fail parameters on drill lightening could get very expensive in this instance.

Carlos, I believe the rims are 5.5 " I was thinking 205s all around but that could change later.

Is anyone else using Vredestein tires besides Stan ?...................Bruce

I would be curious, as to how many sets of drills ALB goes through in a typical year.  

It also got me thinking about drilling for lightening and then it occured to me that I’ve never seen a metal bicycle frame with lightening holes in it.  Brake levers, derailures, water bottle cages, crank chainrings, all yes, but the bike frame or pedal arms, no, with one exception.  For years, the Colnago brand always had their trademark, a “Clubs” symbol (think a deck of cards, here) milled as a hole in the bottom side of their bottom bracket - the hub that the pedal crankshaft goes through.  It’s way underneath where you really can’t see it.  That is the only frame hole I have ever seen on a bike.  Must be a really good reason for that.

aircooled posted:

Collecting empirical data to determine pass or fail parameters on drill lightening could get very expensive in this instance.

Carlos, I believe the rims are 5.5 " I was thinking 205s all around but that could change later.

Is anyone else using Vredestein tires besides Stan ?...................Bruce

I am. Very happy with my Sprint Classics.

Gordon.  Holes in a bike frame would soon let water, dirt, grime etc. to get inside, so I guess that's one reason they are solid.

 

Gordon, holes in the bottom bracket shell are for drainage for any water that finds its way into the frame. And the wall thickness of that shell is much heavier than the frame tubes.

The tube walls are kept as thin as possible to reduce weight, so the frame probably wouldn't tolerate any drilling at all.

My old Raleigh Pro has three long slots in the bottom bracket for the same reason, but not as pretty as the Colnago.

 

The bottom bracket spindles and bearings had to be protected by inserting a 2 piece plastic sleeve to keep the crap out of the bearing races. I would always grease the seat post and handlebar stem during. Assembly to keep the H2o out of the frame. 

Panhandle Bob posted:

aircooled posted:

Collecting empirical data to determine pass or fail parameters on drill lightening could get very expensive in this instance.

Carlos, I believe the rims are 5.5 " I was thinking 205s all around but that could change later.

Is anyone else using Vredestein tires besides Stan ?...................Bruce

I am. Very happy with my Sprint Classics.

I'll be running Vred Sportrac 5's this year but I'm not on the road yet.  195 60 / 15 on 5.5 rims front and 7 rear. 

This is the same reason I drill a couple holes in the front license plate brackets for our Speedsters. To allow road water or car wash to drain out and not cause major rust.