BlazeCut tube boiling and hissing

I can see the bubbles!  Does the new one do it?  Is yours a FF/CMC and is the 1/2 moon piece of fiberglass cut out behind the fan in the shroud?  (VS has a circle with hardware cloth over it.  Boiling for water is 212 F so that air must be 230 or so.  With engine off (or Darwin award candidate), reach in and see if a rag or paper is trapped in your fan.

"Is the area behind the fan shroud especially hot?"  

No.  It's pulling in air from the engine grill or in front of the firewall into the fan so just behind the fan shroud should be relatively cool, like under 100F.

"When I close the deck lid, the tube drops down behind the fan shroud.  Should I not allow the tube to dip down behind there?"

It shouldn't matter and it is so stiff that it'll never be drawn into the fan so don't worry about that, either.  But I would worry if it is touching the top of the fan shroud when closed - not for heat, but for abrasion against the shroud.  I have a much shorter tube (1 meter) and attached it in the middle to the firewall and the ends are around the sides near the carbs.  Never had a problem and the gauge still shows "green" after three years.  I'll be interested to see what Josh (he's a really good guy) finds, too.  His product is pretty fool-proof but it could have a defective end crimp and is leaking the fluid which is contained under pressure.

What does your tube end gauge say?

I wonder if that electric fan you have mounted on engine lid is part of problem?  Seems at speed aerodynamics would suck air out of the engine bay through the grille (as a low pressure area).  Is your electric fan pulling air out - or trying to push it in?

Jim Kelly as pointed out his problems with the entire BlazeCut schtick a dozen times over the years, and I'm inclined to agree. I like the idea-- but the execution is pretty cheesy.

I'd put a temp sensor (something cheap, like a K-thermocouple) at various places around the engine bay and record your readings. My bet is the problem is not your temperatures.

@WOLFGANG Hmm I'm not familiar with what you're referring to wrt fiberglass/shroud cutout, perhaps it'll make sense once I peek back there.  

Re temperature, you're saying since you see boiling bubbles, it must be above 212F?  If so, I'm not sure that it's water in the tube, or perhaps it is and it's the tube material that is the retardant?  And I think blazecut is supposed to activate at 120C (248F), an even higher threshold to meet.  I think I'm not understanding you correctly.

I'm pretty sure the grille fan is pulling air from above and pushing into the engine compartment, but now I'm second guessing it and will confirm.  Which way are they usually going?  Ps, I rarely turn it on, PO said only would do so on a hot day.

@Gordon Nichols You may not be far off with the defective end crimp fluid leak theory, because when I uninstalled it, I noticed some liquid residue on my fingers.  It was clear like water, so perhaps it is water inside after all?  

I'll check what the tube end gauge says, I still have the part because the project of installing the new one and sending back old one got delayed for a while.  Will be installing the new one later this coming week, I'm almost envious that you have the 1 meter tube because it's probably more friendly to install.

Here is a picture of my CMC BlazeCut installation. See the tube ends near the carbs? I ran it around the back and sides of the engine compartment using the same hose clamps as you.

It's not water inside the Blazecut tube and it's not 212 f in your engine compartment.

@Sean Seena posted:

@WOLFGANG Hmm I'm not familiar with what you're referring to wrt fiberglass/shroud cutout, perhaps it'll make sense once I peek back there.  

Re temperature, you're saying since you see boiling bubbles, it must be above 212F?  If so, I'm not sure that it's water in the tube, or perhaps it is and it's the tube material that is the retardant?  And I think blazecut is supposed to activate at 120C (248F), an even higher threshold to meet.  I think I'm not understanding you correctly.

I'm pretty sure the grille fan is pulling air from above and pushing into the engine compartment, but now I'm second guessing it and will confirm.  Which way are they usually going?  Ps, I rarely turn it on, PO said only would do so on a hot day.

It's NOT water in the BlazeCut tube. It's a fire retardant similar to and a replacement to the now illegal Halon. This is what the 1 meter unit looks like in my Speedy. Also, driving home from the 2019 West Coast Cruise I put on 180 miles with the air temp @ 106 fu#king degrees. The BlazeCut neither "exploded" nor "bubbled." Unfortunately, I did!

@Drumagination posted:

Here is a picture of my CMC BlazeCut installation. See the tube ends near the carbs? I ran it around the back and sides of the engine compartment using the same hose clamps as you.

Hmm, I thought of doing that (I think others on the forum may have done the same), but I think wasn't sure how to mount the clamps.  Eg, can't drive screws outward such that they poke through the body out the paint.  How did you secure them?

Or maybe it was that the deck lid arms were in the way of the tube running across, I don't remember, will have to look soon

@Napa Paul posted:

It's NOT water in the BlazeCut tube. It's a fire retardant similar to and a replacement to the now illegal Halon. This is what the 1 meter unit looks like in my Speedy. Also, driving home from the 2019 West Coast Cruise I put on 180 miles with the air temp @ 106 fu#king degrees. The BlazeCut neither "exploded" nor "bubbled." Unfortunately, I did!

Yeah I figured, which is why I thought I was having trouble understanding the comment.  Actually I faintly remember watching some advertising vid where they said the fire retardant liquid inside was safe for human contact, as opposed to it being water.  I mean clearly that much in water wouldn't even put a dent into a fire.

I really think there was a problem with the particular tube, I'm very skeptical that high temp in my engine compartment got anywhere close to activation temp...

Wow that looks clean, I think I've seen yours in another post in fact, but my 2m model won't allow that configuration.  I tried cleaner looking configurations than that in my photo, but for one reason or another they wouldn't work.  

Perfect emoticon selection btw, nailed it.

@Sean Seena posted:

Yeah I figured, which is why I thought I was having trouble understanding the comment.  Actually I faintly remember watching some advertising vid where they said the fire retardant liquid inside was safe for human contact, as opposed to it being water.  I mean clearly that much in water wouldn't even put a dent into a fire.

I really think there was a problem with the particular tube, I'm very skeptical that high temp in my engine compartment got anywhere close to activation temp...

Wow that looks clean, I think I've seen yours in another post in fact, but my 2m model won't allow that configuration.  I tried cleaner looking configurations than that in my photo, but for one reason or another they wouldn't work.  

Perfect emoticon selection btw, nailed it.

Any chance when they send back your replacement they could send you the shorter tube?

Yeah, I was wondering that, too.  As I recall, my 1-meter jobbie cost about the same as a 2-meter version, but it fit much better.  

I'll have to pull the winter cover off (Fie on all of you West Coasters!) and shoot a photo of how mine is installed.

@Robert M posted:

Any chance when they send back your replacement they could send you the shorter tube?

@Napa Paul @Gordon Nichols Also suggested 1m length recently.  

It's a good point, I didn't go that route only because I already had the 2m in hand and simply set out to install it.  I did "research" different installation configs on the forum, I saw various lengths and don't remember anyone ever saying "absolutely get the 1m don't mess with the 2m" although maybe I wasn't looking for it.

Since then, one SOC member who shall not be named (unless they wouldn't mind) enlightened me:  

spent a couple hours and several phone conversations with the experts at BlazeCut going over the internal dimensions and volume of a Speedster's engine compartment. EVERYONE agreed that the 1 meter size would not only be sufficient to immediately put out a fire but it's also the size most easily fitted into the compartment

When discussing with Josh @ BlazeCut about replacing this defective unit, we were mired in discussion about what might've gone wrong, when he said "I'll send you a new one" I just said ok, without thinking about the length.  I guess I could go back and ask to exchange for a 1m, hat in hand, offering to at least pay for shipping of the new.  

That said, I'm dropping the car off at the mech shop that will be replacing my muffler later this week, they said they'd give it a look and maybe a go.  But I think I'll point out the 1m option so they don't think the only universe of options is wrestling the 2m into a pretzel.  Especially because the shop owner was very interested in blazecut and even mentioned perhaps buying a handful of units to have on hand for his other customers (so I'd want them to have a good/fair 1st experience).

I think one of the main takeaways from this thread discussion is 1m is the size for our cars...

Interesting posts; I am about to get the 1M version; I recall reading that recommendation here some time ago; to go for the 1 M on Speedsters. The 2 M version works for regular Sedans, Ghias and the like. I really like Napa Paul's installation.

How about running like the green lines?  That would give double coverage for the carbs should there ever be a leak or backfire.  You can clean a spot on the fiberglass and fiberglass in short pieces of PVC pipe to hold it.

Hi Folks, Josh with BlazeCutUSA here following up on this.  We got this tube back from the customer and upon inspection there is a large gouge in the tube from vibrating against something.  It is essential that BlazeCut is installed securely, not allowed to move around in the engine bay, and not against anything else that is moving against it.  This was nearly all the way through, and must have a tiny pinhole in it that created the conditions presented in the posting above.  Thank you for all of your support with this product!

@BlazeCutUSA posted:

Hi Folks, Josh with BlazeCutUSA here following up on this.  We got this tube back from the customer and upon inspection there is a large gouge in the tube from vibrating against something.  It is essential that BlazeCut is installed securely, not allowed to move around in the engine bay, and not against anything else that is moving against it.  This was nearly all the way through, and must have a tiny pinhole in it that created the conditions presented in the posting above.  Thank you for all of your support with this product!

@BlazeCutUSA

Thanks for the follow-up, Josh!

@BlazeCutUSA  Yeah, Thanks, Josh!  Nice follow-up.  

I have two 1 meter versions in my Speedster (one in the car’s nose for a gasoline powered heater) and mounted them with insulated electrical cable clamps to prevent that sort of thing.  Three years and no issues!

Thanks for a good product (and great customer service!)

Oh!  And welcome to the group!

@BlazeCutUSA yes welcome Josh, for some reason I thought you were already on here!

It looks like the tube was up against something, and it was the heat of that something that burned the tube.  So I guess the tube doesn't have the same heat rating when in contact with a surface?

I say that because my mechanic measured the temperature in the engine bay right back where the BlazeCut tube was descending (see the OP photos).  It was 135°F after a short drive (but longer drive than those I mentioned above, and also probably in slightly warmer weather).  Then after idling for a couple minutes the temp dropped and leveled out around 120-125°F.  So I think it's reasonable to assume the temp was somewhere below 135°F that night mentioned in the OP.  That's much lower than the BlazeCut activation temp which I think is 248°F (@BlazeCutUSA can confirm this).  So, sounds like even though the tube can hang out in <248°F temp air, it can't come into contact with surfaces that are significantly cooler?  That said, maybe a particular surface was more hot, although that seems unlikely from the discussion above.  

Either that, or the lateral shaking of the engine caused mechanical/physical gouging.  But the length and signature of the gouge seem to not jive with that theory at least in my head.

Whatever the reason, even though I think some have been able to install 2m tubes if their particular engine bays allow it, I think the takeaway is that 1m is the size for these cars.

The damage to this tube is absolutely a physical abrasion and not a heat melting.  It simply was allowed to rub against something.  The Tubes heat rating does not change.  Also, Please keep in mind that the volume of the protected space dictates the size of the unit, not the install location options.

@BlazeCutUSA. Josh, are you implying that a 1 meter length is not the recommended length for the engine bay of a speedster?  I think at least a few guys have tried stuffing a 2m length into this space and it ain’t easy or pretty.  I’m wondering if you have ever considered a version that had a fitting or two mid-span that would allow tight bends or U-turns.  

A related question, would two 1m lengths do any good if 1m is under the recommended length but 2m does not fit?   I’m thinking it is not a great idea (it is doubtful both would go at the same time, so if one wasn’t enough and the flames kicked back up, you are crossing your fingers to second one does what the first one didn’t.)

Thanks,

Jon

Looks like 100% abrasion to me.

I installed a single Blazecut T100E (1-meter) in the engine compartment of my VS speedster and it fits perfectly (see photo above in Sean Seena's post dated 2/22/21 @ 7:51PM). Initially, I was comparing this 1-meter size with the T200E (2-meter), so I measured the compartment and found it to be approximately .40 cubic meter. That's when I made several contacts (both phone and email) with Josh at BlazeCutUSA to inquire about the sufficiency of both models. On Tuesday, August 4, 2020 @11:14AM, Josh responded as follows: "The T100E is sufficient for your engine bay." I am rather taken aback with his current statement that "We recommend a T200E for the 356."

In short - Yes the T100E is the correct size for your speedster, and it will work.  When the car is moving the environment changes, there are more variables. If you can fit a bigger unit in I will suggest the larger unit.  It is only slightly more cost for twice the effectiveness and I would rather see overkill than just enough.  It is not "wrong" to install a T100E, it is just better to install a T200E.

That is why in our emails I did suggest the T200E to you, but that yes, the T100E is the right size.

FYI- BlazeCut made a small run of Black tubes.  Downside is that you cannot quick check the unit for an air bubble to know it is good.  I have them in T200E and T300E only.  They were made Black to look better in an engine bay.

https://www.blazecutusa.com/products/t200e-black

Has anyone found a way to successfully install a 2m Blazecut in the engine bay while retaining a sliver of grace?

Josh - if it is not feasible to design a version of a 2m length with the ability to make a tight bend or two, would it be possible to make a 1m version with a reservoir at one end or both, or mid span?  That would allow for installations into smaller spaces while maintaining higher volumetric outflow during an event.  Just saying.

Or maybe a 1.5m special "Speedster" version?

I haven't done this (my set-up is different and a shorter tube), but I believe that if you put the ends of the 2-meter tube under the latch assembly, they can overlap in length there mostly unseen and be secured with tie wraps or insulated clamps.  Then, loop the length of the tube around the engine and behind the shroud.   You can support it at the front either from the hinges or the cold air entry port or both to hold up the front of the tube.  For the sides, the tube should run outboard of the carbs and as high as possible so I would get a pair of Zip Tie mounting plates, like this:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utili...BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

and glue them to the underside of the body with Locktite Power Grab

https://www.lowes.com/pd/LOCTI...ts-9-Fl-Oz/999916341

Then use a zip tie to cinch them up after the adhesive cures (24 hours).  Even if one of those zip ties fails or comes unglued, the tube won't be moving much.

Doing it this way surrounds the engine while being mostly out of sight, allows for the lack of flexibility of the tube, keeps it high in the space, keeps it away from anything abrasive, keeps it from moving around and keeps it well out of the way.

@Jon T posted:

Has anyone found a way to successfully install a 2m Blazecut in the engine bay while retaining a sliver of grace?

Josh - if it is not feasible to design a version of a 2m length with the ability to make a tight bend or two, would it be possible to make a 1m version with a reservoir at one end or both, or mid span?  That would allow for installations into smaller spaces while maintaining higher volumetric outflow during an event.  Just saying.

Jon-  What you are describing is a bottle system which exists.    A reservoir and smaller tubing.

I am the distributor for BlazeCut in the USA, BlazeCut does offer a "C-Series" which is a canister and smaller diameter tubing, and there is a version that uses "detection tubing"  that melts like the T-series, however, we do not have them available in the US yet.  There are competitors with bottle systems available and have been for quite some time.  The cost has been the barrier in the past which is the niche that BlazeCut has filled. 

@DannyP posted:

Or maybe a 1.5m special "Speedster" version?

I like the idea, I'll pass it on as a suggestion!

Somebody with a Speedster should measure along the sides and the firewall to give the Blazecut boys a measurement.

@DannyP posted:

Somebody with a Speedster should measure along the sides and the firewall to give the Blazecut boys a measurement.

That's been done. My VS has a volume of approximately .40 cubic meters and I've discussed this with Josh (BlazeCut) several times.

Whatever dude. I don't have a Speedster, just trying to help.

I assumed Danny was talking about linear measurements to help determine the maximum length of Blazecut tubing would comfortably fit, not volumetric information to help assess what length Josh would recommend.  1m seems to fit reasonably, 2m not so much.  If Josh can twist the arms of his product folks to entice them to make a run of something between the two sizes it would be nice to have a measurement or test fit to determine what max length could work.

@Jon T EXACTLY!

I want to give a shout out to @BlazeCutUSA for customer support and engagement.  Their involvement here is laudable and certainly above and beyond what we see from a lot of vendors.