I'm driving down the road when I hear a loud "ratcheting" noise, the engine dies and is now completely frozen up.
Oil is full. 15,000 miles on the engine, a 1915 from VS.
I had the car towed to my local shop (Vee W Unlimited in Loveland, CO) but they can't get to it for a couple of weeks. The wait will kill me!
Thrown rod? Case destroyed?
Part of me is happy though, I've always wanted a stroker and now I have the excuse!
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Honey, I shrunk (blew) the engine I need a replacement 
No... Just kidding..
.... too bad it happened it's not fun when it leaves you this way..
That's two this year now. Except only one because Cory's eyes were glued to his oil pressure gauge.
Usually when an engine throws a rod it's a pretty catastrophic 'thunk', the engine stops NOW, and the hole in the top of the case is pretty obvious. It sounds more like you spun a bearing. How hot was it out? How hot was the engine? Oil temp? head temp? Before this happened, if you went around back and opened the engine lid (after driving somewhere) how hot was it inside? Were you overwhelmed by the heat when the engine lid came up? Could you touch the case or sheetmetal? Hold the dipstick?
Anyway, sorry to hear of your misfortune, but
Oh, how I do love this part! And glad you're looking at this as an opportunity. Al
Not a hot day and engine oil was at 178.
No unusual heat in the engine compartment.
I love a good mystery!
2110!
Is this another case of the oil pump tang not mating properly with the cam gear?
Let's see what the shop brings back.
Ted
Sorry to hear about your motor troubles, what stroker motor are you considering building for the car? Details!
Nd
I'm thinking 2276 or 2332.
What are the downsides of increasing the stroke?
...that's what she said...
...to loud boo's from the peanut gallery...
Loud boos can be annoying, to say the least.
Requires a costly crank, case clearancing, new rods and piston - s a very quick $1200-1500.
A 2010 is like a 84mm throw crank and 90.5 mm. It's a long life engine. You get up to 94 mm P&C and the head bolt threads get exposed and vilnerable to pulling out..
How much power/reliability do you think you're looking for and what do you think it will cost?
Oops 2110?
2110 is 82 stroke with 90.5.
The power in my 1915 is not bad, but I would like a little more, particularly in the lower RPMs. That's why I thought about a stroker.
If I could get a stoker for around five, I would be happy.
Cole Thompson- posted:The power in my 1915 is not bad, but I would like a little more, particularly in the lower RPMs. That's why I thought about a stroker.
If I could get a stoker for around five, I would be happy.
What do you have for an exhaust and carbs?
Unless it's something like rocker arms came off (wouldn't cause seizing) - you're looking at a complete teardown. Might as well give in to the madness.
I think what Stan's hoping is that some of your 1915 will be usable for the larger engine and that will get you closer to meeting your budget. As well as the carbs and exhaust (if they're big enough for the larger engine), the distributor, rockers, pushrods fuel pump, sheetmetal and heads may all be saveable. It would be great if the case was not damaged as well, as that's a major cost, but you'll have to see what's happened. If it's not needed for the bigger engine (crank and rods if they're still good, and heads, for example) sell and put towards the project.
The usual formula- 2007, 2110, 2165 or 2276 (anything over 2 liters will do, really) with Panchitos (or any well ported 40x35 head), cam and rocker combo that revs to 6,000rpm or so and the proper sized carbs and exhaust will give 135 or 140- 160hp and more than enough bottom end/lower midrange to make it really fun!
An engine like this should also be easy to take care of, not requiring any more maintenance than a stocker.
I am hoping to salvage the case, heads (CB 044's) and maybe cam? Then there are the forged 1:25 rockers, dual Dell 40's, Vintage Speed stainless exhaust and etc.
If it's a seized main bearing then chances are a lot of stuff may be ok. As I said before, when an engine throws a rod it's rather catastrophic, taking out at least 1 piston/cylinder (with the rod), the crank may or may not be saveable, usually there's a hole in the top of the case and possibly a rod showing (may or may not be bent and/or twisted but probably junk just the same). Do you know what cam is in it now?
All I know is that it's a "mild" cam.
In 3rd gear how high does it rev with power? At what rpm does it peak and then fall off?
I bought a well used dune buggy with a seized engine. Turned out it was #3 exhaust valve that broke off. It made a mess of piston - holed it and embedded valve in head mushrooming the spark plug base --- argh, in addition to sending metal shavings everywhere. A rebuilder even said the crank and rods were slightly bent. It was all stock parts so no loss as I bought knowing engine was bad.
How much this costs depends on what you can reuse. What you can reuse depends on how much power you want. The Vintage Speed exhaust (and the 40s to a lesser extent) are going to limit how big this engine can get before just throwing money away on internals that your exhaust can't support.
Assuming your case is OK, the case and heads are already opened up for 94s, which mean they'll accept an AA 92 thick-wall cylinder. A 78.4 stroke and 92s is a 2085, which would still play very nicely with the carbs, and perhaps the exhaust as well. You'd need to keep the cam on the mild side, or you'll quickly run out of "headroom" with the exhaust.
"044s" can mean a lot of things, from rough castings to Super Pros. Assuming they're on the Panchito end of the spectrum, I'd say the heads probably wouldn't be snuffed (too much) by the exhaust. If they're much bigger they will be.
I think this could be a nice combo, assuming you choose the cam carefully. I'd talk with Pat Downs regarding what he's seen with the Vintage Speed exhaust. Cam choice begets target compression ratio, which determines what kind of deck you'd need to run. It's not a matter of increasing the displacement, keeping the heads, and opening up the deck to get the CR you're after-- it could be, but the engine would run like garbage.
Good luck. Find somebody you trust, not some Billy-Bob with "112 years of VW experience".
I have power to 5500 RPM.
Thanks for all the great info everyone, it really gives me a lot to think about. I didn't realize that the various combinations were so intricate and had to be so carefully thought out.
Fortunately I do have a very good mechanic! Pat McCaffery who owns Vee W Unlimited in Loveland, CO.
I found out what happened to my engine: I dropped a valve. The good news is that my case is okay!
I've decided to go with a 2180.
I'm glad that this happened, I never did trust that engine...I've had lots of trouble with it.
Heads. Crank. Rods. Pushrods. Case work.
At this point you might as well replace the cam and lifters. No sense in replacing all of the above and leave those two items as suspects. Get quality bearings, crank assemblies, and everything else. Buy once. Cry once.
That'll do it. Bummer that it took out a head, but 2180 cc's with thickwall 92's will be a great engine, Cole! Cammed so it revs to 6,000 rpm or so (any milder and it will make so much torque it could be a transaxle breaker) with 8 3/4- 9:1 compression will make it a fun, easy to drive, dependable engine that's got a ton of power down low and shouldn't take any more maintenance than stock.
Panchitos heads have enough combustion chamber volume so you can keep the deck height nice and tight (important- this will go a long way to having an easy to tune engine that doesn't create too much waste heat. You need to keep the deck below .050"!) and should make 150hp with a big fat torque curve. I just checked- with the Panchitos combustion chambers enlarged to 61cc's ($30 extra), .040- .045" deck height will give you 9:1- perfect! I would pony up the extra $22.50 for the titanium retainers as well- any time you can drop weight from the valve train is easier on the springs (less heat) and it will give just that little higher redline.
If you don't have an extra cooler in the fenderwell, plan on it; the full flow filter mount that @Stan Galat recommends, while at first glance a little pricey, has a thermostat so the engine will warm up quicker and eliminates a set of hoses (more than pays for itself and there's less clutter/fewer leak points) is a wise choice as well.
And you know I'm going to ask (or at least the other guys do), so tell me now- what camshaft/rockers are you going to put in it?
Well that's all I can think of for now, so Yoda out (for now, but back you know I will be!)
^ I couldn't agree more. Al has the right idea here.
Have you considered one of CBs engine packages? I know that they generally have a case included, but I'm sure if you called Pat, you could customize with the 92s and no case.
It seems like a perfect solution-- good primary and secondary parts so you don't end up with what Will has going on (a $10 part wiping the whole engine out), and a local guy screwing it together. He's involved, you're involved, and CB is doing the heavy lifting of sourcing diamonds in a field of Coprolite (look it up).
Mostly-- your attitude is fantastic! You have a cool car, live in a beautiful place, and have the opportunity to get a really nice air-cooled engine.
Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Nowhere, USA posted:...sourcing diamonds in a field of Coprolite (look it up).
I looked it up, Stan, and learned a new word today!
PS- do you have a link for the full flow filter mount?
This is the one I went with. http://www.setrabusa.com/produ.../sandwich/index.html
They are refered to as 'sandwich' adapters because they go between the existing filter adapter and the filter itself. Get the version with the thermostat. Do you already have an edisting full flow filter? I am replacing the other type of thermostat and 4 feet of hose & 4 extra fittings with one compact adapter. Hindsight.
Have fun with the new motor! Giddy up!
Really, you can't beat a CBPerformance air cooled engine. I had a 2332 c.c. in my previous speedster, and it ran like a dream, and never gave any trouble. Lots of punch, and with perfectly set up Webers, it was a dream to drive.
Pat Downs builds a great engine.
Yes my CB 2110cc was the same ... great A/C engine.
I've been told that when it drops a valve like that - the entire engine has to be disassembled and thoroughly flushed to remove metal shavings. Easier if you removed the oil plugs and tapped case for screw in plugs. Also the cam and crank bearings have to be replaced. Some say throw away the stock oil cooler and replace it as it is impossible to flush completely. On n engine I have that did that - an engine builder said the crank was ever so slightly bent too. IF all that is true - getting a long block might be cheaper.
Many here swear by (not at) the 2110 size engines. And for good reasons as described above. I have a 2332 and do enjoy what happens when I put my right foot down. And then there are the old adages: Torque is addictive. You can't have too much torque -- at least so long as the drive train will pass it on faithfully to the wheels. Horsepower is like money: you can't have too much, and no matter how much you have, there is always some a$$hole down the street who has more.
Very much looking fwd to the rebuild here, I hope you post up the progress, w/ pictures and such. And of course, the SEG that will return when the project is done and those aforementioned wheels are screaming.
PS: what causes a valve to be dropped like this? Either in general, or as in this case in particular??
Kelly- Hot running heads, tight valve adjustment, and poor quality valves are what I can think of at the moment. VW recommended type 1 heads be rebuilt (and exhaust valves be replaced) every 40-50,000 miles once upon a time.
82mm stroke engines (2110, 2180 and 2276) all have great torque characteristics and will have a decent life span if built conservatevely, maintained properly and not flailed consistently from start up to shut off. There's no reason even an engine built with 94's won't give years of service as long as conditions previously mentioned are met AND there's adequate air intake into the engine compartment.
It used to be #3 exhaust valve would go due to partially blocked air flow due to oil cooler. The dog house cooler was to help prevent. The key back then was if you had to keep adjusting #3 valves to quieten them down - then the valve stem was stretching just below the tulip part and would soon break off.
On my dune buggy engine - it mushroomed the spark plug so it wouldn't unscrew.
OK, copy that. On my '61 coupe S90, which was, aside from the twin-cam, the Porsche racing engine of the day, they had Al alloy finned Ni-chrome lined barrels and sodium filled exhaust valves as well as larger valves and heads, all toward making cooling under racing conditions work better. EVEN SO, on a long climb up from the valley to the top of the blue ridge parkway, something went wrong. When finally inspected, a neat little pie shape section of one of the exhaust valves was burned away, as if done with a cutting torch. Mechanic suggested that despite all the fine high heat conduction materials used, valve cooling was still largely determined by the contact between the head and top of the cylinder. And it was know that, and he had seen before that, under duress, the thermal gradients that nevertheless still existed in all of that bolted up equipment could create a distortion where a small section of the head/barrel contact would open up, allowing some loss of compression (blow-by), obviously, and grossly altering the thermal condition of the head in that area, to wit, allowing the exhaust valve seat to develop a hot spot. The aforementioned valves, despite all that sodium inside the stems, were a near thing wrt heat control, relying almost completely on the time they spent in contact with the seat to bleed away the heat of exhaust. So, if the seat gets too hot in a part of its circumference, so will the valve head. A little too much of that, and bye-bye valve. And so it was.
Another "cool" feature of this S90 set up was the dimpled ni-chrome coating on the cylinder walls, designed from the outset to burn a qt every 500 mi. The combo was set up to be loose, so would not go south when raced at top end for extended periods. I'm sure that part worked well enough. So I had been dealing with built-in oil consumption for a time, and was not too keen about it. I was not racing the car. Faced with the expense of reconditioning the heads, buying new Na valves and new Nickie barrels/rings (mega $$$, even then), I was offered another option. Keep the heads, recondition them, buy the NA valves but go back to Super (cast iron) barrels and piston set. I'd lose a little compression, some HP, but would retain the larger breathing heads, and I'd never have to worry about burning oil again, nor having the barrel heat distortion issue lurking as a possibility. And so it was. I'll confess I never noticed any performance differences, and the motor worked perfectly and burned no oil. So I had something like a S90-Super hybrid.
