Blown oil filter seal....again

Yesterday, I decided to crawl under and tweak my clutch nut (the hydraulic equivalent of the big wing nut). I decided to back it onto ramps rather than jack it up. I started the car and immediately blew the oil filter seal dumping 1.5 quarts on the garage floor. I'm big on long warm ups to bring up idle before taking off. It was 55 degrees out and I'm using Brad Penn 10w40. I had a Fram high pressure filter on it. I replaced it with a Mobile 1 after the spill. I did this once before, but it was really cold, and I got on it too hard, too soon. This time I'm a little baffled. Any ideas?

Got to a O-Berg style filter, you'll never blow a seal again.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1154338

A couple of things may be present.. First off, the Fram HP1 is absolute JUNK... Use a WIX 5151R. It's about 1000% better than a FRAM. WIX filters are available at any NAPA auto parts store

Second, you're oil weight may be too thick for your climate.

Personally I think an Oberg is difficult to clean and prefer the System 1 oil filter however the WIX 51515R is my first choice

I second that......FRAM is CRAP. Don't use them. 10w 40 oil is just fine.

Mike

Just FYI but the WIX 5151R is not usually available from the discount stores, PEP Boys, AutoZone and the like around here. But, one of the NAPA stores has them in stock and the regional warehouse has them in stock and will deliver here locally to a store in a very few hours, I got one in delivered in 2 hours....and the cost is about $8.

You might also consider a bypass oil pump cover from someone like Jaycee...they are not cheap but they bypass more than 80 PSI right back to the crankcase...I know, the internal bypass should take care of excessive pressure, but they often do not....like Larry and the others say, dump the FRAM for good....and the Olberg filter is a real mess everytime you have to clean it....at least the one I tried was...big mess every oil change...

Tom, I'll echo what has been said-dump that piece of crap Fram filter and go with a WIX 5151R from NAPA.
If you still blow seals with a Wix you've got other problems.

There is another thread here where I expressed my displeasure about a blown off Fram HP1. Wixx 1515R or NAPA 51515R, they are the same and interchangeable. Enough said.

Something else to consider (as I'm sure you've now sworn off Fram filters for life and, OBTW: Mobile 1 filters are even worse) is whether your garage was significantly colder than the outside temp of 55F. Often the garage slab holds the cold so your oil and filter may have been closer to 40F or lower, rather than the outside 55F, making the oil a bit thicker at start-up and contributing to the problem.

Thanks guys!

Yes, Gordon! Good call on the cold floor. I usually open the garage door, mine faces the sun, and sometimes push the car outside. I don't like cold leather seats ;) Also, a full flowed type1 with cold oil can reach 150 psi or more on cold start. When it's that cold, start it a few times and try to keep it running but DON'T REV IT UP!

If anyone chooses to ignore the negative comments about Oberg filters I have one for sale.

My new Canton filter filters all the time with no bypass and will not blow.

Just got out of Napa. According to them, the correct P/N is Wix 51515R.
Cheaper than the Mobil 1 that I have on now. Filter, oil filter wrench, funnel, & some Brad Penn, will be on board from now on. Next time, it might not be in my driveway.

Having been in the auto repair game for close to 20 years and dealing with expensive German engines,my nightmare is that a cheap filter takes out a engine and I have to pay for it!!
I stay away from any of the "cheap" filters,the Frams/Wix/pro-tech/STP/whatever...these are the cheap "fastlube" filters used by oil change chain stores...
I always use the Mahle/Mann/Hengst filters,these are the highest quality you can buy. I am presently using the Mahle & mann filters for my Speedy. This is the same filter as spec'd for a 80's Volvo 240,and they filt the generic oil filter housing made for VW's.The filters are made in Germany or Austria. If you want a high quality filter check these out.

Thomas, I totally disagree with you when you classify a WIX as a "cheap" filter. Before I retired, I was the Sergeant in charge of a fleet of 4,500 vehicles belonging to the LA Co. Sheriff's Dept. As such, I conducted and directed a great deal of oil filter tests. WIX is an OUTSTANDING filter, no "if's" and's or but's It's well worth the extra expense. Mahle makes a good filter and I won't argue that but take them apart and look at the filtration inside. You'll see that A WIX is not as bad as you've reported. But then which is the better car, Ford or Chevy???

I agree with Larry. My Dad had a large fleet of school buses in the'60's and 70s (like, 22 of them) and all of the mechanics at the GMC dealer where he had them serviced for major stuff told him to stay away from FRAM filters and go with Wix (for the same reason Tom states). We did for years, and on the occasional tear-down for a failed engine they were always clean as a whistle inside. A bus in our town typically racked up around 60,000 miles per year.

The Mahle, etc., German/Austrian filters are great, don't get me wrong, but Wix does a damn good job for my money on a VW A/C.

oooops! Double post!

NAPA GOLD or WIX (same filter) are the best. Have used them for years in gas cars, diesel trucks and forklift.

I've been using K&N oil filters for some time now. I run Mobil 1 V-Twin 20/50 Synthetic but my engine is not full flowed. Got out a good bit this winter and had no problems with cccold start-ups.

~WB

Gordo-Not involving myself in the great oil filter debates; BUT your statement "...for a failed engine they were always clean as a whistle inside...." is interesting. (Not quite sure WHY, but it IS interesting...in a weirdly oxy-moronic kinda way.)
SS

"failed engine . . . clean as a whistle."

aka

"He's the picture of health, except that he's dead."

Scott: sad but true that school bus contractors occasionally get a driver who thinks they need to rev the heck out of the engine between shifts. Do that enough on a daily basis and two things happen: (1.) you blow the engine and (2.) you get fired.

But I do see the illogicality (is that a "Bush-ism"?) of the comment!

Gn

Picking filters is like picking oil brands,everyone has their favorite. Wix is made by Dana corporation IIRC and out of all the "cheap" filters,I will admit they are the better,if not best one.
I think it is my aversion to NAPA auto parts stores that gives me a distaste for Wix,since NAPA sells some of the crappiest parts for the highest prices in the industry,and carry Wix as "their" brand. There is so much "crap" out there now,so much offshore copycat brands & parts I tend to stick with what is IMO the highest quality,but that soon is disappearing,to be honest even the German brands are opening factories offshore and I have been getting OEM "German" fuel filters made in China!!!
So if you like Wix and it works for you,roll with it.....I am just stating my opinion that I like the Mahle/Mann/Hengst brands.
Some of these cars I work on have engines worth 30K for a replacement (Audi S4/RS4,etc)so I will choose the original German filter as a rule.

Here is some interesting reading......I googled "oil filter comparison" and found this,pretty cool. He does state the Wix/Dana?Napa are some of the better ones out there in regard to domestic manufacturers.....
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/index.html

Thomas, I agree with you about Mahle for German cars in general. But for a full-flowed aircooled VW, the Wixx 51515R from NAPA is the BOMB. Period. The R stands for racing, and it is designed to handle super high oil pressure, which some of us here have experienced with thick oil, cold temps, and blown off filters. I will use them until this car is gone!

HEY VINCE U EVER BLOW A FRAM FILTER ON THE WEST COAST?

The last seal I blew still has a smile on her face...

You didn't mistake a male otter for a female seal again did you?

The water was cold, I was surrounded by Kelp, my goggles were fogged, it could happen to anyone..

That would explain all the sealife migrating out of Pismo recently.....

Nice resource link, Thomas....Thanks!

I don't know if Fleetguard makes small filters at all, or if they make filters for VW aftermarket applications. When I add filtration to the engine I'm planning for next winter I'll be looking to find out.

Yep, and There was even a horse today, a white Arabian stallion named William swimming south toward Malibu from Santa Barbara a little over a mile from shore.......word travels fast in the universal language of love.....(BIG stallion, Vinny......:) ......)


On the topic:

aircooled.net tech articles has a recommendation not to use a 30 psi oil pump in a street engine. They say 26 psi is plenty and the higher pressure of the 30 psi pump can result in blown seals and filters.

That's in case you have a 30 psi pump working, Tom.

i was using the wix 51515R with no problems but then i found out that the R version only filters down to 61 microns whereas the 51515 goes down to 21 microns.
the tradeoff is that the R version has a higher burst value but id go with the smaller micron filtration. just my .02 cents.

I think there is a bit of confusion in an earlier post. The article refers to 26mm versus 30mm oil pumps...not psi, but the 26mm and 30mm refers to the size of the gears in the pump (length). A 30mm pump will move more oil than does a 26mm, and all things being equal the pressure may well go higher with the 30mm pump. But that assumes the pressure regulator valves are not doing their job well. They should, on a dual bypass block, keep the pressure under 100psi...generally under 80 psi if all is working properly.

You're right Jim, and it was my stupid mistake as I knew that but was thinking in pressure when refering to that article.

Anyway, I only wanted to point out that the pump warning does exist within aircooled.net but didn't take time to go back to it to clarify for myself what was said. I don't know whether it would or wouldn't be a factor here.

Bob, here's some micron information

A micron is 1/25,000th of an inch. A human hair is about 150 micros; the smallest thing that can be seen with the naked eye is about 10 microns

So, the difference between 61 and 21 is absolutely minimal

Larry, if a human hair is 150 micros and the R filter gets all those particles to 61 micros that seems like alot of BIG things interacting with the bearing clearances, camshafts, cylinder walls etc.

Your bearing clearance is typically 0.002 to 0.003 (51-76 microns), and the #2 main and rod bearings can be as tight as 0.001 (25 microns). So that 61 micron filter might not be enough. Race engines run looser clearances to begin with so the larger particle size is ok. Then again, that doesn't matter much if you keep blowing your filter and running without oil.

The micron thing is a game played by filter manufacturers. Consider that stock VW's have no oil filter and only a screen that passes 900 to 1500 microns and those engines were usually good for 100,000 miles plus. I'd still use the R version due to it's oil pressure rating.