Bosch 009-style advance springs

 GM dizzy kits come with a assortment and will give you something that will work  Match them to yours as close as you can and then check your dwell with a timing light .. The springs can be tweaked / stretched a little also.  

  What dwell readings  did you use to have  and what are you shooting for?  (how far did it use to advance before you lost a spring?)

I've honestly never checked the dwell on this engine.  Always checked dwell first when I had points in the distributor, but since this has an electronic ignition, what's the point?  Dwell never changes with this module.  I'll be plotting the advance curve on this disti first, just to see what it is, then I'll be dialing it in to what I want If I can find some useable springs.  What I want is to get something real close to the original Porsche advance curve (Which is close to an 055 Bosch distributor).

NOBODY knows where to get these springs?

Check this out, Gordon:

http://eswebs.com/site/blog/vo...tributor-tuning.html

It's a start, and thanks!

 I think I'll take my spare over there tomorrow and play with it to see what it does and get used to the machine.  It actually spins the tach and sends a signal through it so you can check/adjust the dwell, plot the timing against "engine" RPM, check for shaft/bearing slop and a bunch of other stuff.  It even has a strobe light on it so you can see what's going on while it's spinning.  

Should be fun!

 Also take note that a photonics module can be cut down and re drilled 180 degrees  for  the screw to fit in any vw dizzy even a vacuum type.. a neat trick..

Please correct me about the curve.. I'm thinking a 31 degree travel is optimum  and with that much curve you can  set its idle position between 4 or 6 degrees before TDC and upper limit at 3,000 rpm to 28 or so  I want to know what is best on this .

Try to bring in full advance at 2K rpm. I did on mine and made it very responsive in the lower end/more snappy.

Yeah, I'm thinking that, too...

The original 356 centrifugal curve hit full advance at 2,800 rpm and full advance was 33°-37° degrees(!), depending on gas, altitude, valves, weather, deepness of pockets, etc.

Back in the day (BITD), the recommended "hot" advance curve brought on full advance at 2,200 and peaked at 37°.

Mine doesn't ping set at 32° and I have a much torquier engine than the 356 1,600, so I'm thinking of setting full advance at 34° at around 2,000 and see what happens. It's always a nudge and try effort, anyway.  If that's too much advance (but I doubt that on this engine) I can bump the stops and check it at home with a timing light.

In fact, ALL of this can be done at home with a timing lihgt, but the Sun Distributor bench just makes it all so much easier.

JBS:  Where did you get your springs?

they need more than just springs.(MR. Gasket, sold curve kits,try jegs or summit,mopar or gm kit.not sure about for springs) the unsprung weight has a limit that is limiting the advance from having a smooth constant curve,you can notch that weight where it contacts the limit so it will addvance all the way to where the other weight comes in. the dist machine will make it oh so easy& guess free.I wish I still had one.Ive been thinking about making one...but way to many other projects in the way,I just got a sunnen rod machine&electrick tubing bender I had to referb/repair before letting them in my shop,then had to tear appart my lathe that shreaded the timing belt while making some powerfeed drive parts for one of my mills. a dist machine is on my list of stuff I want back.sunn,allen.marquett,king.I dont care I can fix& use them all, probably a little easyer then making one,but making one isant hard.

   just changing the springs isant the "hot tip" ,they need more than that.the gm kits even came with new weights,some auto stores had them in stock(autoshackaddvanceorileyetc) but with those dist long gone and the ellcheepo china billet dist they may be hard to find localy.

   I like to curve them so the idle timing is about 14-16 degrees when set to 30 total. all in befor 2500,2000 perfered.

Gordon,no springs used,just a timing light and a degree pulley on the crank,I saw what the advance would come in at and it was as easy as stretching one end of the stock 009 spring to bring advance in sooner. There was only one spring in there,very easy to do. Made a huge differenc in my 1971 Westfalia van in regards to torque down low,and my speedster has very good response under 3k now.

Thanks for that.  I pulled my spare disti apart and found that it's as simple as you described.  Then, I got busy working on my late brother's Callaway Scirroco  and haven't been able to get back to it....yet.  

I have two 009 disti's - one with points and one with a reluctor module (not a pertronics) so I'll get another one of those and set up both disti's the same, as soon as we figure out how to power the module on the bench.  Worst case is I pull out the coil, too, and bench test it that way......easy-peasy.

The intent behind all of this is to get the 009, which everyone describes as not the best thing to be running on these engines and the cause of a lot of mid-RPM bogging, to perform like the "hot" version of the old 356 distributor, referred to as an 055.  All that's different on mine is the shape of the advance curve and the hotter coil, which requires a special, HEI-style disti cap.  

Once I play with mine I'll document it for others and maybe offer a 009 tune-up/alteration service if I get get ready access to the test bench (or find my own).  

I've never seen just streatching the spring fix the issue,it can help it some,or move it in the rpm range where it may not be noticed,you can also bend the ataching point for the spring.yhere are many ways to recurve a dist.I dont know if shooting for the orignal curve is the best thing to do......the vw engine is not a porsche engine......it is but it isant.the combustion chambers are totaly different witch the curve needs to be "tuned"to.along with gear ratios,cr,carbs,exhaust,cam.etc.

Thanks, Mark...

I don't plan on modifying the shape of the curve of the 009 - just moving it, as-is, down lower in the RPM range.  So the first thing I want to do is plot what the current curve is before I start messing with it.  

That should be relatively easy, I think...but this little project has taken a back seat to a bunch of other projects right now so I'll probably get to it in December when other things calm down.  I've been tearing apart my late brother's '83 VW Sirocco Callaway and should be putting that back together next week, then get back to the disti after Thanksgiving.

I'll post an article, then, on what I do and the results.

the curve is a 2 stage curve,addvance a little, then stop advancing for about 700 rpm then resume addvancing, thats where the problem is.it stops advancing where it needs it most...thus flat spot/hesitation/slugish...wow feal that cam come in....a quick smooth curve is oh so sweet.

remember this dist was for a industrail engine....I dont think it was ever used in any automotive app by vw.they were smarter than most think, they knew it didnt work for squat. but the dist itself is fine,just needs tuning.

All this talk about dizzy springs brings back some good memories. Little surprises me these days of what can fit what. We used to stuff two electronic modules into a Soob dizzy 180 degrees apart for semi redundant ignition for aircraft use. We joined them with a MDS coil joiner and onto a single spark plug. I flew a Corvair engine in my plane years ago with dual Mits modules triggered by a cut down Ford 6 cyl reluctor and it ran very well. But anyway, while gathering intel for my Soob swap a couple of years ago, I learned that a mid '80's

(or was it a mid '90's) electronic Ford Escort distributor would bolt right into the end of a Soob EJ22 camshaft and work just fine. Check the pic and look at the block off plate at the end of the head in the right side of the pic attached. Neat shyt ! I went full electronic anyway with the Megajolt system but this was a neat alternative. This pic was taken two years ago to show the Kennedy adapter package including the clutch/flywheel assy that bolts directly to the VW tranny. A true bargain for about $500.....adapter plate, new flywheel and clutch package.