Bought a pig in a poke

Well, after owning 2 replicas speedsters years ago, and a Spyder for the last 5 years, I came across this beast for not a lot of money, so I bought it. As you can see it needs a bit. While it was fitted for all the trim and the like I don't believe this was ever a completed car. There is are no signs of it every having a wiring harness, a battery, or for that matter a chassis.

Now for the need for all the experts on this site.... notice this has a built in fiberglass pan. My other Speedsters used only the VW pan parts....that would suggest a custom chassis to me....

Also, all the subframe in this body is aluminum. In my other 2 this was all steel tube. Also, this was built for bullet tail lamps and you will note the louvered engine cover....

I am wondering if this was originally intended for a MetalCraft tube frame? Anybody seen anything like this? Anybody have an aluminum subframe in their car? My 2 cars were were both early Intermecanica's, I have worked on a Fiberfab and a couple of Classic Cars, but that is my experience on these. Your ideas on this would be appreciated.

So, I am thinking this needs to be an outlaw as it moves toward a more completed state.....

The hinges on the doors are robust, all the subframe is aluminum, the fiberglass is hand laid, everything suggests a professional build by an experienced party.....

Wow!
You are a brave man Mr Dubois.
Good Luck on your new hobby!

Hey Jim,
This one has me baffled...funny placement of the defroster tubes
(maybe a shade tree add on) the louvered deck lid etc makes it somewhat unique.
"Where there's deep pockets, anything is posible" :) ~Alan

Alan,

I was hoping you knew immediately the origin......so I don't feel too bad if it is new to you to. Regards the defrost tubes and the like, not a shade tree add on....it is all aluminum and is all very professionally welded together, including the defroster tubes. Between the aluminum subframe and the fiberglass floor and tunnel it is confusing to me as to who made it..... I am supposed to get the paperwork file as well as all the metal body trim parts, headlamps, grill, windshield and the like tomorrow. But, no idea what is in the paperwork, if anything. It was 50 miles from the body....more of the pig in a poke.....all that was sight unseen....other than the windhield (cracked). So now I need 2 windshields, one for this and one for my Spyder....

I did some clean up on the body this afternoon. The body was originally white gel coat, never painted from what I have.

I have a spare engine in the garage, a transmission, a full set of new guages, and a lot of other parts ready to go. I also have located a completely refurbished chassis with a lot of very nice enhancements. I will pick that up Sunday. Most everything that has to be done to this car, I have done before, and can certainly do again. Keep me off the street and outta' the bars for a few weeks...more fun and cheaper in the long run than golf.....

Several years ago (like 2004, if memory serves), there were a couple of guys from Vancouver that had a couple of bodies similar to this on listed on either ebay or the Samba. I contacted them to ask some questions, but the emails are long gone. The pictures I saw were of a body and AL subframe. That's the only time I've ever seen anything done in AL.

Maybe it's the same car, maybe not. Either way, I think it's pretty cool.

Jimbo - That looks like the 'perfect' blank canvas to create your next outlaw! We look forward to progress pics! Good Luck!!

Jim, give Carey a call at Special Edition, he would probably give you a nice two-fer deal on some windshields. That looks like a cool project.

Stan,

Appreciate your observations regarding the AL frame. This car has been sitting out in the Texas sun and weather for some fair number of years. How long is anybody's guess, but mine is 5-10 years based on the break down of some rubber as well as interior paint and body primer....by the way I have commenced the sanding off of the last coat of primer, I think it was more a sanding coat than true primer, and the body is in excellent shape save a couple of spots that will require some fiberglass work as a result of dings sitting at an autobody shop awaiting payment/commitment to finish/ or ultimately, how do I get rid of this thing?

DannyP, thanks for the reminder about Carey. He and I spoke regarding my Spyder windshield sometime back. I do make it to Indiana on ocassion, and I plan to stop by Carey's place next time through the area. And 2 windshields loaded in my truck make absolute sense....a lot more than trying to get them shipped in.

So, hopefully by tomorrow I waill have a chassis for the car, what I have located is pretty exciting, if it is as represented. Photos will certainly follow on that.....

Well, I am just a dope, and don't know 2% of what the others here do about these bodies, and how they are put together, and by whom, professional and amateur alike. But your description has me thinking that this body will have some serious rigidity problems. A FG pan?? What is that going to be like? The steel pan in a VW, and the "hump" especially are what make the VW a car at all. Aluminum sub-frame? Aluminum has no where near the stiffness of steel, so the design of the space frame, if out of Al, would need to be properly engineered, and how they'd get all of that done right and buried in the shell is a big mystery to me. Aluminum has great stiffnes to weight ratio because it is so light, not because it is so stiff. Designing a structure w/ Al and designing one w/ steel are two VERY different things. But maybe it has been done right and you have a fine thing there that can be worked into a sweet ride. Is this thing supposed to sit on a VW pan? Maybe I have misread your descriptions. One thing to think about: maybe there is a reason it was so cheap? I'm just sayin' . . .

Chassis has arrived for the pig....Just FYI, and I don't remember describing the body as "cheap". It is better made/ engineered than the last 2 (circa early 80's IM's) Speedsters I have owned. I am on ocassion a mechanical engineer, not structural, but I certainly know enough about strees analysis and rigidity that I am not concerned about the rigidity of this sub frame, this is very well done and has a number of braces and the like that was not in my steel framed bodies, and there is a matter of thickness of the steel tube versus the aluminum tube that I have....

The new chassis is pretty much that, newly rebuilt, I am going to need to shorten it, not a real issue as I have a plasma cutter as well as at least 3 different methods of welding it. This does have air bags, which I may pull off, I don't care for the concept and don't need the new AirKewld system

more chassis details, new SoCal wide 5 disk brakes, "0" offset, with emergency brakes, all new everything including tires rims bearings ball joints etc etc.....transmission is an unknown so far....with title. Too bad I have to cut it to shorten....

OK, I stand corrected. Guess I misread your description of what you had there. When all buttoned up, sounds like this chassis will be plenty stiff. At the rate you're going, seems like the car will be on the road pretty quick. Good luck w/ the hacking and fitting, and keep the pictures coming.

You Keepin the Air ride? That is a good lookin system...

Kelly, appreciate the input, keep it coming. The fiberglass pan in this is nicely done, but I think I will have to cut it out if I am going to use the chassis approach that I have. Otherwise, it would require a custom chassis I think...to use the fiberglass.

Incidently, the standard cut pan that is used in many of our cars does not really add much to the structure. The tunnel and the subframes in the body provides the structure, where in a standard VW it is the tunnel and the heater ducts that provide the structure.... the pan material is only about .035" thick and does not provide much of anything, even bolting seats to it is marginal, and seatbelts? Not good, even with reinforcments, unless it is welded to the tunnel on the inside and to the subframe on the outside ........unless your name is Cory, and lets don't go there with his chassis.....I am too lazy to do that!

In any event I have my work cut out for me.....

And Barry, I suspect I will replace the airbag system with coil overs, but that is still up in the air.....no pun intended...

OK, so the thing you have WAS designed to work as is, no pan required? If so, I'd be very suspicious of that wrt having a rigid frame. For my car, I went for the hybrid structure, where a welded (steel) tube frame comprises about 2/3 or more of the car "body" and the only remnant of the donor car is the back end strong-back where the trans and suspesion hang on. Supposed to be stiffer than just a pan from front to back. And when we say pan here it is not just the sheet metal where you put your feet, but the rails and tunnel welded thereto that provide a stock VW its rigidity, such as it is. I think all the FG shells come w/ some sort of metal tubes cast inside, but just those, while very helpful, are not enough to give you what you want for a sporty car. But enough of this blather, we want to watch you make your materpiece -- and I am sure it will be just that.

Kelly,

I believe the body was designed to sit on a MetalCraft chassis, or something very similar. The MetalCraft chassis was a very nice little solution to a better handeling Speedster....as I best remember it had A arm front end and IRS / A arm rear suspension...my recollection is not to be taken as anything more that, very dim....I have only seen the flyer for the MetalCraft chassis, it was a tube chassis without a pan. Hence, a car needed interior floorboards, like mine has.

What I am planning to do is remove the fiberglass floorboards and use the shortened VW pan approach. I suppose I could cut the pans off, leave the VW tunnel. I would still have to remove the fiberglass tunnel....

I am not certain how many chassis MetalCraft made, I have seen one for sale a few months ago but it was Manx length which is about 2-4" too short for a Speedster..... I may still have a flyer from them in the files, if I do I will post it.....

Jim,

if you pull off the air bags / pump, etc, drop me an email. I'm interested in buying it.

An update on the project: I pulled the rolling chassis apart in preparation to shorten it. Glad I did that. The rolling chassis that is"ready to drop your body on and drive" proved my old adage. "Inspect everything, trust no one". Many of the bolts were no more than finger tight. I didn't find a single bolt that was truly "tight" or torqued to any VW specification. Really scary thought that if I were building a VW I could have just bolted on a body and driven...and killed myself or somebody else....

In any event the air bag system was very well done and it came off cleanly. I would be temped to leave it off if not for the brackets welded to the rear support arms. Removing those would be a bit messy.

I am also still considering replacing the 4" shortened front end with a conventional width set up, but that will call for longer bars, those that replace the torsion bars in the front end when using air bags. Anybody have an opinion on the value of a 4" narrow front end other than using wider tires? Seems like the problems of alignement and the like superceeds the value of only wider tires. And now would be the time to do a replacement.... your thoughts please?

The 4 wheel wide 5 disk brake system is in fact SoCal, and they weigh a ton, but I knew that when I bought the chassis.

The intent is still to do an "outlaw" car and I tend to run more to vintage look of outlaw than the "tuner" approach....

Looks like so far so good!!