Brake Cabling Question

Ummm...  I may be stupid (many have said so), but that picture looks like a Speedster under-dash handbrake.

@Lane Anderson posted:

Ummm...  I may be stupid (many have said so), but that picture looks like a Speedster under-dash handbrake.

Hey, Lane. Yes, it is a 356 diagram, as it’s all I have to illustrate what I’m looking for. 😉   I’m hoping someone has a photo of how they mounted the coupling I referred to, on the firewall of their Spyder.  

356 Speedster/Coupe umbrella handle  and Spyder hand crank lever -- two VERY different things, so far as I know.  Could an under the cowl umbrella be put in a spyder?  I 'spose . . .

@El Frazoo posted:

356 Speedster/Coupe umbrella handle  and Spyder hand crank lever -- two VERY different things, so far as I know.  Could an under the cowl umbrella be put in a spyder?  I 'spose . . .

Yes, sir, I understand. 😊 I’m interested in how the Spyder guys have mounted items 16, 6, and 7 from my attached diagram. I’m assuming those items are common to both 356 and Spyder E brake setups.  Thank you.  

My guess is that you're on your own and will need to modify it quite a bit. I think the biggest obstacle will be because your Spyder frame is very different from a 356 plus the engine and trans are turned around.  I can visualize the pull handle under the dash and it related parts probably working but after that, the down stream mechanism most likely will change.  In my Spyder, I rather like the nifty little ratchet set up next to the shifter. I probably won't use it much but it's nice to have on occasion ...........Bruce

@aircooled posted:

My guess is that you're on your own and will need to modify it quite a bit. I think the biggest obstacle will be because your Spyder frame is very different from a 356 plus the engine and trans are turned around.  I can visualize the pull handle under the dash and it related parts probably working but after that, the down stream mechanism most likely will change.  In my Spyder, I rather like the nifty little ratchet set up next to the shifter. I probably won't use it much but it's nice to have on occasion ...........Bruce

Thanks, Bruce.  

As I mentioned in my original post above, I just purchased a Spyder handbrake (just like your nifty little ratchet set) from Vintage Speed.  Like yours, it will be mounted on the floor right next to my shifter.  I have no intention of installing an under the dash umbrella hand brake.

The diagram I posted from a 356 was just to illustrate items #16, 6, and 7 in the diagram, as I’m assuming those parts will be similar to the Spyder (and I could find nowhere on the WWW a brake cabling diagram for a Spyder).  

If you have the floor mounted handbrake like mine on your Spyder, do you have a photo of the coupling mechanism on the engine side of the firewall illustrating how it’s configured and mounted?

Thanks!  

This isn’t my car, but I’ll be mounting my handbrake exactly like this.  You’ll notice that a single rod or cable runs from the bottom of the brake to the engine bay.  At that point, a coupler is used to attach the two emergency brake cables that run to each rear tire.  I’m hoping someone has a diagram or photo of where and how that junction is mounted in their Spyder.  Thanks again.  

John, is your plan to use OEM handbrake cables? Personally, I wouldn’t even worry about those umbrella handbrake parts. I would get a j hook, a wing nut, and a length of u channel. Drill a hole for the j bolt in the middle, and cut a slot and hole for the cable ends in the channel. Hook the j bolt into the parking brake, attach the cable ends and adjust with the wing nut.
I’d draw a picture but I suck at drawing.

I did my best. Don’t judge.  

Obviously not to scale, but hopefully conveys my idea.

Alternatively, ask Carey or Greg how they do it. I doubt they use any of the umbrella handle hardware.

Alternatively, you could use one of these doodads,* a length of threaded rod, and a pair of nuts (for adjustment) to attach to parts nos 16 and 6, which would automatically attach to the cable ends.

*technically “clevis pin rod ends.”

@dlearl476 -- Thank you for taking the time to share this with me.  ;-)

I have all of the necessary cables for the installation -- both the one running from the hand brake, and the two running to each rear disc brake assembly.   The coupling itself isn't really the issue, it's just that I'm looking for information on how and where this coupling is mounted in the Spyder, as it looks to me that a return spring will also be required?  I'll take your advice and contact Carey & Co. and see if they can share a photo with me. 

Thanks again, Sir! 

It appears to me Vintage uses a rod and heim joint to get into the engine compartment, and then changes over to the cables. Here is a picture of their handbrake kit.

I think what I would do is machine a derin bushing that attaches to the firewall and supports the rod. In the engine compartment I would just make an equalizer bar to attach the brake cables.

@LI-Rick -- Thank you, Sir. Much appreciated. 😉 

I still need to get my head around the routing of the engine bay cabling in a Spyder, as I know I have to avoid any 90 degree angles.  As far as the return spring thing goes, I believe I've now learned that the return spring is contained in the caliper itself.   I'm going to confirm when I get back home today. 

@LI-Rick posted:

an equalizer bar…

Thanks for posting that Rick. I was wracking my brain trying to remember what those were called. Same with clevis pin rod ends  (I cheated and found it on google)

Getting old has its advantages. Remembering words ain’t one of ‘em.

Do you have anything in your engine bay currently for ebrake cables?  

We use about 3' of tubing that almost double 90s for the cables (More like 80 out of the tunnel and 70 back towards the caliper.  Stock VW cable housings plug into it there and run to the caliper.  From the handle we run a riot similar to rio what is posted above from a Vintage except we just 90 the rod and drill a hole in it for a cotter pin.  The rod is threaded on the rear end and runs to a plate with 3 holes like David Earl drew, the threaded parts of the cable ends go through the outer holes and provide your adjustment point.

I can take pics of nay this tomorrow if you'd like.

@chines1 Carey, thank you very much for the reply, Sir, and I do follow your description.

I do not currently have anything in the engine bay for E brake cables.

I would most certainly appreciate any photos you are able to share, and please do so at your convenience.  I've got the routing in my head, but would of course rather specifically follow the way the experts do it at Special Edition. 😉

@aircooled posted:

My guess is that you're on your own and will need to modify it quite a bit. I think the biggest obstacle will be because your Spyder frame is very different from a 356 plus the engine and trans are turned around.  I can visualize the pull handle under the dash and it related parts probably working but after that, the down stream mechanism most likely will change.  In my Spyder, I rather like the nifty little ratchet set up next to the shifter. I probably won't use it much but it's nice to have on occasion ...........Bruce

I'm trying to figure out what rear or mid-engine has to do with e-brake cables, other than maybe the length?

@chines1 posted:

Do you have anything in your engine bay currently for ebrake cables?  

We use about 3' of tubing that almost double 90s for the cables (More like 80 out of the tunnel and 70 back towards the caliper.  Stock VW cable housings plug into it there and run to the caliper.

Pretty much the way Vintage does it. Through the firewall, about a 90 degree bend, then over to the trailing arm, another 90, and back a few inches. Cable housings from the tubing to either backing plate or caliper. I greased the cables in the tubing as well as the flexible housing.

I ran my cables forward between the seats to an aluminum bar with three holes in it. My cables weren't equipped with swaged ends(from Airkewld). I used VW throttle cable clamps to hold the cables. I used two nuts on the rear to lock in the adjustment, on 1/4-20 threaded rod. The threaded rod has a clevis at the e-brake handle end.

Since the calipers are self-adjusting, I haven't touched the cable length since the original install in 2017.

Danny....yes, the length is probably different. Plus it sounds like he hasn't installed any sort of mount to terminate the pull rod and continue with the cables to the brakes. A picture to two from Carey will probably answer his questions.  While thinking about it, it seems that a return spring would be a good idea to keep things in tension and nothing is flopping  around ...........Bruce