Brake Master Questions

I too just discovered fluid loss and find my carpet soaked in fluid (drivers side)

Front to rear steel line is bad.....

Which of us are you replying to Alan?   I assume Bull on this one.

 

" Front to rear line is bad" ....

A steel brake line is affixed to the rearward port on the master cylinder, the line passes through the bulk head, then is looped around the pedal assembly and secured along the driver's side tunnel with flat steel tabs. The line exits the pan tunnel area and connects to a tee block mounted on the left frame horn. A leak in that line can easily weep across the tunnel sheet metal to the passenger side

This sage information comes from Alan's experience having built/refurbished/modified more than 33 Speedsters! 

Sorry Alan. In my response to your " rear line is bad" I was asking if the response was for "Bill" and I typed "Bull".  Bill had the wet drivers side carpet.  I would never suggest that you didn't know what you were talking about.  just to be clear.

To clarify, my leak showed on the garage floor under the passenger side front by the in front of the end of the pan itself.  My floor in the cabin is dry as is the pedal area.

The fact that you carpet is dry makes Alan's idea even more likely.  The line he is talking about would not have a way to drip in the cabin, just outside.

"my leak showed on the garage floor under the passenger side front by the in front of the end of the pan itself.  My floor in the cabin is dry as is the pedal area."

 

I had that exact same thing happen on a beetle sedan years ago.  Had a leak at the fitting on the Master Cylinder which leaked onto the pan below the MC.  None of it got into the cockpit and the carpet was never wet, but it somehow traveled across the front and dripped on the floor from a hole in the pan on the passenger side, ahead of the foot bulkhead.  

 

The brake fluid gets in there between the different metal pieces and is almost impossible to get out.Used a bunch of solvent to clean it up, then sprayed paint and undercoat all over everything to prevent blistering and subsequent rust.  

 

I watched the area for several years after that and kept seeing minor new paint bubbling each spring which I'd wire-brush and re-paint.  After several years, it finally stopped eating the paint and went into "peaceful co-existence".  

Thanks for the input guys.

 

Gordon:  what you described is what I suspect.  My car has sit for the past 5 months in the garage ( same state of Ma. as you) and the brake pedal went to the floor.  No obvious leaks or wet spots on the pan under the master.  What I did have happening last driving season was intermittent smaller spots on the floor of the garage in relatively the same spot.  At first I thought that maybe the steering damper had puked its fluid and was leaking a little.  It would come and go but was nothing too big. I did have to hit the brakes with a quick pump first to get a high brake pedal but the brakes worked just fine and the fluid level stayed right there.  I suspect while sitting the seals in the master dried and maybe allowed fluid to seep out in a greater amount over a longer period of time.  It did just as you described by coming out the front of the pan by the front axle beam.  The spot has a little bubbly "fluffy" paint if you know what I mean ( I'm sure you do....it's not a pretty site).  Just the lack seeping fluid someplace around or on the master ( I felt all around the body of the cylinder) made we wonder where the heck it came from.  One thing I do know for sure and that there are no brakes.

Again, thanks all for the responses.  I guess I know what I have to do know....it just a matter of what cylinder to use.  I do have 4 wheel disks for we'll see.

Regards,

Frank

Hey Gordon: since you don't live too far from me ( I'm in Newburyport) how'd you like to share your expertise and help me replace the master?  I'll buy you lunch or dinner at the restaurant of your choice.  Hey, we can even use my Speedster to get there that way I'll be sure of a quality job.

Might be do-able.....

 

I'll be heading out to Eastham on the cape to help Al Gallo out with installing his new engine, plus I'm doing a lot of stuff to my own car, PLUS my mighty diesel pickup died just the other day and I'm getting THAT sorted out (and diesel's are ALWAYS expensive to fix ) but I should be able to find time in the next couple of weeks.  I'll even bring my pressure brake bleeder along!

 

email me at speedstahguy at gmail dot com And we can work out logistics.  Right now, I'm watching the UCONN ladies devastate those women from Notre Dame......

 

GO HUSKIES!!!!!!!

Thanks Gordon.  I'll send a note along but it sure seems you have quite a bit to do already.  Maybe a social visit.  I get out your way for work here and there.  Maybe I can get a look at your CMC and get some ideas ( you do have a CMC don't you?).
Frank

Frank, get a 1971 Beetle master, it has dual pistons to separate front/rear brakes.

 

Looks like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brake-...ly-New-/310718934679

 

Also, it has smaller orifices in the front to give higher pressure to the front calipers. There are two versions of this M/C, a drum and a disc.

 

For your 4 wheel discs, it is recommended to remove the internal pressure valve inside the M/C so your discs won't drag.

 

Really good information: The fluid input and output ports are all on a 90 degree interval, as in 12 o'clock or 3 o'clock. The 45 degree ones are for the brake switches! Don't get them confused, the brake switch ports are NOT to be used for calipers/wheel cylinders!

 

Remove #10 from this pic for 4 wheel disc: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.thesamba.com%2Fvw%2Fgallery%2Fpix%2F455523.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shoptalkforums.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D122224&h=375&w=797&tbnid=xtO6V1P4HWszFM%3A&zoom=1&docid=ULFUQWLkWtA9xM&ei=509FU_6AHObI0QHkpoDQCA&tbm=isch&ved=0CLoCEIQcMEk&iact=rc&dur=1330&page=3&start=61&ndsp=39

Hey Danny,

Thanks.  That looks like my M/C with the ports for brake lines at those locations.  The 45 degree ports on my existing part have switches in them: one has wires to it ( I assume brake light switch) and the other has a switch but not connected( assume brake fluid level warning)). I'm not sure what is in my car at this point as just about nothing is stock.  I've been told to be sure to buy a German made master though as they seem to be more reliable.  It could be a master from a Beetle though.  How would I know?  Pull it and find a part number?  It looks a hell of a lot like the link you show for eBay.  Many are probably like that though.

Frank

Hey Gordon:

How about them Huskies???

 

I'll see if I can find the different part numbers or what they fit. Both disc and drum dual M/C are in the 66-69 Bug Bentley manual. The old single action is in there too.

 

The other brake pressure switch can be wired in parallel or left as a spare to move the wires to when the other one craps out someday

Mine was as Alan said. New brake line and she's all dry!