brake pull

What can anyone tell me about "brake pull"? It was never an issue before I did the conversion to wide 5's (changing rear drums & front rotors).
I get a pretty good tug to the right when I brake now. I had the car aligned a week or so ago and it's still there. I adjusted the rear toe and it's still there. I'll check the calipers on monday when I can get it on a lift but I'm pretty sure they're snug. What else could it be?

It's not the front, it's the rear.

The brake shoes on the right rear are slightly tighter than those on the left. When you apply the brake (pedal), the right shoes hit first and hardest, thereby "brake-steering" the car to the right. Probably because the new rear drums are not the same ID as what you had before (it only takes several thousandths to make a difference).

You have three options:

1. Live with it, or

2. Loosen the right brake shoe adjusters just a skosh and re-try (street test). Repeat until it doesn't pull any more, or

3. Tighten the left brake shoes just a skosh and re-try (street test). Repeat until it doesn't pull any more.

I prefer #2, your opinion may vary.

Note that the shoes for the emergency brake must be adjusted similarly as the main shoes. It is entirely possible to have it pull one way with the E-Brake, and pull the other way when you step on the brake pedal. The E-Brake shoes are those rearmost, while the main shoes are on the front of the assembly. the E-Brake shoes can be adjusted both at the back plate at the wheel, AND at the handbrake lever in the cockpit. Visit your VW service manual for proper procedures.

It's a delicate balancing act adjusting those rear shoes.

Fortunatly, you don't have to do it very often.

(And THAT's why the World went to automatic adjusters.....)

gn

Sounds exactly like the pull situation I had. And the solution was exactly as Gordon describes - in fact, Gordon did the adjustments. I'm considering getting rear disks just to avoid having to adjust the brakes. Never had much luck doing it myself.

What's the big deal? You adjust them (OK, so it might take two or three go-arounds to get them right) but then they hold the adjustment for several years - sometimes longer - before you need to spend another 45 minutes adjusting them again.

That, in opposition to, What? - $700 bucks for a rear disk brake set?

hmmmmmmm..........

Gee....now that I'm getting my "Southern Worhshop" set up (it took a while to get around to it - I've only been here for five years!!) maybe I can put out a shingle and start working on cars again.

Let's see....got four nearby, and Lane up in Charleston, and Kevin Haskins..... Think I could make a living on six cars?

No, but it might help offset the "retirement income slump" you(Gordon) are currently in!

I don't have that many near me, but I will work on them, as long as they are aircooled. Plus, I am not retired yet.

Pretty soon Lane will be selling his car and buying a Miata, say it ain't so! Lane, you don't need no stinking rear discs. Adjust 'em or have Gordon do it, just a good excuse to have a beer with the man, if you ask me.

"...selling his car and buying a Miata"?!?!?!?

ARE YOU MAD!!!!!

There's nothing wrong with Miatas, but I like my Speedster, thank you very much - particularly after the last few days. I don't like adjusting the brakes cuz I tried a couple of times and never did get it right. I hate having to beg for help from Gordon.

Oh, and the rear brakes that Carey recommends are less than $500 for the set, including e-brake.

Along these lines...I have replaced the master cyl. due to the brakes 'leaking down' over a few days. The car stopped fine when pumped, my logic indicated mstr. cyl. Now, I can't get the brakes bled. I can get them to hold, but at about 1" from pan. '79 VW super with drums all around.

Thanks,

george

Nope, never, ever had to do that. My calipers always slid back and forth so everything self-centered.

George: hmmmmm.....did you bench prime the master cylinder?

It's tough to get the bubbles out of the system if it hasn't been bench primed.

A pressure bleeder would be nice, but those are pretty scarce (although a lot of local garages have them).

In lieu of that, bench prime the MC, and then try bleeding again in order: right rear, left rear, right front, left front.

That aughta do it, unless you have a new, leaky MC (not unheard of with Brazilian, really common with Asian/Chinese ones).

Lane will drop by to balance/adjust your rear drums ;>)

On my D i had a simular problem I shimmed the calper mounts with steel shim stock to center up the pads. Very ODD but it worked. have any of you had to do that trick.

My brake handle is set to lock the rear wheels 2/3's the way up . tweeking it at the handbrake nuts is the best way to tune that out turning the tight wheel and backing the nut off to match the other wheel when spun tud the handle one more click and spin the wheels again and again untill they're the same.

Gordon,
"the new rear drums are not the same ID as what you had before (it only takes several thousandths to make a difference)."
Huh? What are you smoking?
That's crazy. The brakes don't care about the size difference between the drums. They only care about how far they have to travel to get to them and how much pressure it will take to cause enough friction to stop the drum from turning. If you adjust the drum brakes properly or at least the same, side to side, size Doesn't matter. They do care about pressure or something wet or oily on them that can cause loss of friction.
I'd check those things,after checking that both stages of the master cylinder are working and the wheel cylinders are working and size, side to side are correct (or at least the same size per axle) and that the system is bled.
If you are adding the emer. brake adjustment as part of the fix, you're asking for more problems and variations. The emer. brake shoe should only come off of its stop when the Emer. Brake is Engaged.
Anyhow, that's how my logic works,
Greg

Greg:

You're logic's fine, but go back to the top and Mickey mentioned that his pulling problem started after he changed his drums on the rear.

What I was referring to is that the new drums are not the same ID as the old drums (maybe off by a few thou) and since he didn't change the settings of his rear shoes but DID change the drums, the shoes are now out of adjustment to the new ID of the new drums.

If he had never changed his drums, everything you wrote is spot on.

And if Mickey had left well enough alone and didn't change his rotors/drums to "look cool" we wouldn't be writing all this much!!

Gordon,
Gotcha, er.. I meant You Betcha!

Mickey,
if you didn't change shoes, or re-adjust brakes, then you'll have to adjust the brakes and wait until the shoes "wear-in" to fit the radius of the Drums.
Or...
Replace the brake shoes. Have them arced (sp?) to the Drums.

Greg

Boy....THAT's something I hadn't heard about doing in a while.....

Greg must be as old as I am (and dirt's beginning to look pretty young!!)

;>)

Back when I got my rear disc kit they did not fit good at all. I finally went hack to type 3s with the 2 peace drums almost as good but with more wheel well clearance. i never like how cose my tire were to the body.

The only thing that has not been discussed is oil/grease cotamanation on the brake shoes. It not only will make it pull but can also make them chadder when applied hard. Im guessing all your parts are new, But if ya did get grease or oil on a drum or shoe it could do this.. grab a can of brake cleaner and wash it off,

When I adjust brakes,I turn the wheel a time or two as a snugg up the adjusters untill they drag just a little and use that to try to match them up by feel.. then raises and lock the hand brake a time or two to seat them in release it and recheck the wheels again.

Trial and error,, hopefuly with less tying and NO errors. Good luck guys..

I use much the same process as Barry, but instead of using the handbrake to center the shoes I just jump in the seat and push hard on the brake pedal a few times. Same result, but I keep my right hand free for a Guinness....

gn