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Some of you know that I've considered swapping out the rear drums on my car for disks, even though most folks have told me that it's not really worth the extra expense unless you have serious power. I wouldn't listen because I am particularly inept at adjusting the drums, and I think the rear brakes aren't doing their share. Finally, I bought the whole kit and kaboodle from Carey that he uses when a customer wants rear disks.

Well, as often is the case, things didn't go as planned with some fitment issues that prevent my from using the disks with my exhaust. I won't bore everyone with the story, but I have my drums back and are quite happy with them because of what I will detail below. Carey is going to buy the majority of the kit back from me. I say majority, because seals and gaskets were used, and part of the kit included a new master cylinder meant for 4-wheel disks. I kept that MC, which is the point of this (long winded) post.

The new MC has a 20.5mm bore compared to the 19mm bore of the stock unit. That makes the braking effort a bit higher, but the feel is MUCH better. It's more progressive and easier to modulate to avoid locking the front wheels. Ken, my VW mechanic friend who helped me with the attempted install suggested that I use larger wheel cylinders on the rear brakes to bias the braking force a bit toward the rear, which I think the car needs, although not as badly as before. Ok, here's the question that you were wondering if I would ever get to: The stock wheel cylinders are 17mm, but larger ones are available. Is there a way to calculate an optimum size, and if so, what is it?

Formerly 2006 Beck Speedster (Carlisle build car), 1964 Beck Super Coupe

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Some of you know that I've considered swapping out the rear drums on my car for disks, even though most folks have told me that it's not really worth the extra expense unless you have serious power. I wouldn't listen because I am particularly inept at adjusting the drums, and I think the rear brakes aren't doing their share. Finally, I bought the whole kit and kaboodle from Carey that he uses when a customer wants rear disks.

Well, as often is the case, things didn't go as planned with some fitment issues that prevent my from using the disks with my exhaust. I won't bore everyone with the story, but I have my drums back and are quite happy with them because of what I will detail below. Carey is going to buy the majority of the kit back from me. I say majority, because seals and gaskets were used, and part of the kit included a new master cylinder meant for 4-wheel disks. I kept that MC, which is the point of this (long winded) post.

The new MC has a 20.5mm bore compared to the 19mm bore of the stock unit. That makes the braking effort a bit higher, but the feel is MUCH better. It's more progressive and easier to modulate to avoid locking the front wheels. Ken, my VW mechanic friend who helped me with the attempted install suggested that I use larger wheel cylinders on the rear brakes to bias the braking force a bit toward the rear, which I think the car needs, although not as badly as before. Ok, here's the question that you were wondering if I would ever get to: The stock wheel cylinders are 17mm, but larger ones are available. Is there a way to calculate an optimum size, and if so, what is it?
Can't answer your question about the wheel cylinder diameter but rather than do a "hit and miss" on the wheel cylinders, why not install a brake bias proportioning valve. With that, you can fine tune the bias and plumbing isn't that difficult.

Remember, you want the fronts to lock up first. Roughly 75% of your braking is done by the front with the remaining 25% by the rears.

If the car has a perpensity to lock up the rears first then
install the proportioning valve between the master cylinder and the rear brakes.

see: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-260-8419/
Good tip about the proportioning valve. The fronts DO lock up first, but then the car keeps on moving as if the rears are weak - at least it did on the old MC. I haven't tried a panic stop on the new one. How does a proportioning valve work on a dual circuit system? To bias more toward the rear I would assume that it would be installed in the front and used to slightly restrict flow on that circuit. Is that correct?
Lane---two T.O.D.s ago Alice and I were steaming along I-40 West of Nashville and I topped a hill doing 75 and there were cars sitting in both lanes so I had my forst experience with a panic stop in my VS with discs on front and drums on back. Man, I went every direction but straight---Damned scarey! And dangerous. The brakes always worked fine but when my tail was on the line the brakes wimped out.

I installed the rear drums from C. B. Performance and they fit great and the installation wasn't too difficult. Because of some reviews, Cary's in particular I consulted with some knowledgable guy at C.B. and he said that 99% of any problems are due to not observing the torque table that comes with the kit. There was a flashing problem from the casting on the master cylinder which was easy to smmoth.

I haven't quite duplicated that stop outside Nashville but I can tell the difference in 4 wheel discs in a majot way. You are going to stop quickly and stay going straight.

I have read sone say it's not important. I can't agree with that.

A handy as you are you could easily get these discs on. Give C.B a call.
An Ol' Skool trick would be to fit front wheel cylinders in the rear.

Lots of the VolksRodders do this. After cutting away the forward metal, extending the beam, mount, and removing the fenders, the stock weight, center of gravity and movement under braking has all shifted around. With the less weight up front, and without the front cylinders in the rear, the Rod would easily lock up and the car would become a sled.

Maybe?

I did it on my Fiat (Super Beetle fronts, something like 23/24mm) but it's not being driven yet, so I can't tell you how it performs. No empirical knowledge here, only faith.
The sidewinder muffler was so close to the caliper (when in the 9 o'clock position) that the hose couldn't connect. When rotated to 12 o'clock, the e-brake spring on both calipers dented the outer tube of the shock absorber. I drive the car for a couple of miles, and had very little pedal (e-brake not connected). Carey said that hooking up the e-brake would "preload" the rear brakes, but after seeing the dents, I decided that it was getting too close to Carlisle for experimentation.

Jack I may talk to you about your CBs, but the drums feel MUCH better with the new MC. I may have learned my lesson about leaving well enough alone.
That's the same kind I have, TC. Jack has a Type-4 now, so his must be different.

Bill, the A1 sidewinder muffler has to be modified to fit a Beck because of the frame design. Space is very tight back there between the tire and the frame - even more-so with my wider tires. Carey told me he has to modify the muffler a different way for disk brakes. Shoulda reminded him that I swapped to the sidewinder before buying the brakes. Might have saved myself some grief.
Lane, you're correct in your explanation of the proportioning valve. If you're having a problem with one set of brakes (front/back) then the valve will reduce pressure to that circuit alone.
In other words, if you want more rear braking then reduce pressure to the front brakes.(be careful because if the back locks up first, your car's tail may decide to do a 180 degree rotation)
T.C.--yes--that's the one. Tiger said he had one specifically to fit Type IVs converted to upright and it did fit perfectly.
Wewere all; surprised by that HP gain and it might say more about the Vintage header and muffler than the A-1 Sidewinder. The Vintage was a very large barrel-looking deal---unattractive and inefficient, I'm thinking. He Also welded in a bung for an AFR meter and used mild steel ceramic coated. I think it was more $$ than the one you show though.
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