Nic: Don't feel too bad.......we've ALL probably snapped a bleed valve at one time or another because they've rusted in. Only thing that is less forgiving is the brake line coupling that rusts to the line and twists it into a crimp and destroys it when you try to remove the coupler.
Two approaches:
1. soak the bleed valve with Marvel Mystery Oil to penetrate it - let it sit for 30 minutes and soak it again, then use an "Easy-Out" to back the bleeder out. You'll need a new bleed valve (NAPA or a foreign auto part store).
2. If that doesn't work, try heating it gently with a propane torch and then use an "easy-out" to see if the bleed valve will come out.
If not, then I'm afraid that you're in the market for a new wheel cylinder. They're something like $15 bucks each and easily replaced. Try loosening the others before you head for the auto parts store - you may need more than one wheel cylinder.
gn
thanks.... again..... :)
new right rear wheel cylinder installed. as well as the new master cylinder. (bleeder screw in the new wheel cyl is different size than old ones)... matter?
Tried pumping the brakes with my Bleedomatic hooked up and the bleeder open, got about a half inch of fluid into this little tiny jar and now nothing but air....
so i went out and bought a hand-vacuum pump to suck the air out. 35 bucks.... all i get is air. so I get my friend, have in pump up the brakes as I open the bleeder as he holds down the pedal after 3 pumps. air comes out. NOTHING ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im ready to go get 2 more jack stands... take all the wheels off... remove the mc, drain and flush all lines.... put discs on it, and bleed.... If im gona spend this much f'n time on such a simple task i might as well be spending some $ and improving the car in the mean time right?
ready to sell..... what is going wrong? please help :)
Tried pumping the brakes with my Bleedomatic hooked up and the bleeder open, got about a half inch of fluid into this little tiny jar and now nothing but air....
so i went out and bought a hand-vacuum pump to suck the air out. 35 bucks.... all i get is air. so I get my friend, have in pump up the brakes as I open the bleeder as he holds down the pedal after 3 pumps. air comes out. NOTHING ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im ready to go get 2 more jack stands... take all the wheels off... remove the mc, drain and flush all lines.... put discs on it, and bleed.... If im gona spend this much f'n time on such a simple task i might as well be spending some $ and improving the car in the mean time right?
ready to sell..... what is going wrong? please help :)
Nic,
Deep breath and a cold one ..... you're missing something and that something is probably a minor thing ( been there and done that)
Start again by checking at the master cylinder by cracking loose one of the two lines there a turn or so will do and push on the brake pedal ...do you have fluid now?
Top off the fluid and continue.
Now, do so at the offending line(s) to wheel cylinder(s) fitting(s) this isolates where the problem(s)is .
Alan
Deep breath and a cold one ..... you're missing something and that something is probably a minor thing ( been there and done that)
Start again by checking at the master cylinder by cracking loose one of the two lines there a turn or so will do and push on the brake pedal ...do you have fluid now?
Top off the fluid and continue.
Now, do so at the offending line(s) to wheel cylinder(s) fitting(s) this isolates where the problem(s)is .
Alan
what is cracking loose the front lines going to do... could i have them so tight that fluid isnt flowing but air is being pushed out.... this just doesnt sound logical.
presure doesnt build with the pedal pumping, but i do hear a spshsht. when i open the bleeder.
i was told i didnt have to bench prime the mc because it sits level in the car and will take care of itself.
I only have 2 jack stands, so im gona go but 2 more tomorrow so i can level the car out. thinking right now, i could have air in the rear of the mc because the car is tilted forward right now....
will see tomorrow and check back... as for tonight, I've got a bottle hooked up to the right rear, and the pedal is pushed all the way down... maybe gravity will do its job????? :)
later... cold one helps :) so does a hot neighbor that comes out and says what are you workin on.... yada yada, well, what are doing after this :)
presure doesnt build with the pedal pumping, but i do hear a spshsht. when i open the bleeder.
i was told i didnt have to bench prime the mc because it sits level in the car and will take care of itself.
I only have 2 jack stands, so im gona go but 2 more tomorrow so i can level the car out. thinking right now, i could have air in the rear of the mc because the car is tilted forward right now....
will see tomorrow and check back... as for tonight, I've got a bottle hooked up to the right rear, and the pedal is pushed all the way down... maybe gravity will do its job????? :)
later... cold one helps :) so does a hot neighbor that comes out and says what are you workin on.... yada yada, well, what are doing after this :)
cant wait to see if simply making the car level helps out with this problem im having :)
will post agian in a bit... still feel free to enlighten me to another possible solution, (in case leveling doesnt work either and im forced to pull a ferris buelers day off on the damn thing)
will post agian in a bit... still feel free to enlighten me to another possible solution, (in case leveling doesnt work either and im forced to pull a ferris buelers day off on the damn thing)
boy did allen hit it on the head....
too make a long story short. im a f'n idiot.
ok, fine... ill elaborate more ;)
well.. when i took out the left rear bleeder screw to take to the shop, to match because the one they originally gave me wouldnt fit even if i were able to extract the broken one, which i couldnt...
btw, the one NAPA gave me when i didnt have the left rear match happened to be the same size as the one that came with the cylinder i had to replace - meaing: i must have older brakes than i thoughtor something at least besides 68+ beetle?)...
Anyway... i forgot that ALL the fluid in the rear of the reservoir leaked out while i had the bleeder out to use it as an example for NAPA. So i had been sucking air INTO the rear system through the reservoir through the MC. Now that ive got it full, ive used 2 quarts of fluid and need to go buy more. it was pretty dark brown crap that came out anyway. And now that I do know whats going on, I think im going to just go buy all 4 discs :).
288 for front, 290 for rear. dont know if that would be for the bolt pattern i have though, but i do have adapters so i guess if i got the discs drilled correctly, i'd have to buy new wheels because the offset would be 1/2inch off. ARG!
too make a long story short. im a f'n idiot.
ok, fine... ill elaborate more ;)
well.. when i took out the left rear bleeder screw to take to the shop, to match because the one they originally gave me wouldnt fit even if i were able to extract the broken one, which i couldnt...
btw, the one NAPA gave me when i didnt have the left rear match happened to be the same size as the one that came with the cylinder i had to replace - meaing: i must have older brakes than i thoughtor something at least besides 68+ beetle?)...
Anyway... i forgot that ALL the fluid in the rear of the reservoir leaked out while i had the bleeder out to use it as an example for NAPA. So i had been sucking air INTO the rear system through the reservoir through the MC. Now that ive got it full, ive used 2 quarts of fluid and need to go buy more. it was pretty dark brown crap that came out anyway. And now that I do know whats going on, I think im going to just go buy all 4 discs :).
288 for front, 290 for rear. dont know if that would be for the bolt pattern i have though, but i do have adapters so i guess if i got the discs drilled correctly, i'd have to buy new wheels because the offset would be 1/2inch off. ARG!
btw, i wasnt a complete idiot.... i was checking the reservoir, however, i am in an apt garage without lighting. so as it gets dark towards the front of the car in there, i used a flashlight to check to make sure the reservoir wasnt getting low. well, the flashlight only lit up the FRONT half, not BACK half....
There you go, Alan does it again! You da man!
rears bled, front left bled. front right.... one lug is stripped and wont come off so i think im gona have to cut it off and install a new stud. not cool... but im glad to have the brakes bled, now i just have to adjust them all so i have a stiffer pedal. someday I'll get to drive it again. :)
btw, the bleedomatic is great, but the bottle is too small. (& i accidentally crushed it in the garage door this afternoon.
The $35 vacuum pump doesnt work as well as it should have, only because the hose and adapters dont completely seal i think.... its ok though, my friend who is a mechanic will probably buy it from me.
btw, the bleedomatic is great, but the bottle is too small. (& i accidentally crushed it in the garage door this afternoon.
The $35 vacuum pump doesnt work as well as it should have, only because the hose and adapters dont completely seal i think.... its ok though, my friend who is a mechanic will probably buy it from me.
Nic.....
You sound like a lot of other back-yard or home garage mechanics trying to get through problems as best they can. You've made great progress, though!
I usually go through at least a quart of fluid every time I bleed brakes. I suppose you could get them done with less, but, hey! Brake fluid is cheap and it's nice to flush out the lines and such (as you've found out).
Don't worry, you're almost there and you WILL get to drive it again real soon!
Adjusting the brake shoes at all four corners has everything to do with brake pedal height (assuming you've already adjusted the pedal for correct free-play). Just take your time and try to get them all about the same. If one side is a little tight, it will cause the car to pull to that side when the brakes are applied. The solution is to either tighten the other side to match (if you can) or back off the side which it's pulling toward. This is a trial-and-error approach and gets the four corners "tuned in". BTW: I have a slight pull to the right when I step on the pedal, and a slight pull to the LEFT when I pull on the hand-brake (two different shoes on the back causing this). It's not too bad, though, and I'm too lazy to correct it right now (or too busy building my wife's greenhouse before Carlisle!!).
gn
You sound like a lot of other back-yard or home garage mechanics trying to get through problems as best they can. You've made great progress, though!
I usually go through at least a quart of fluid every time I bleed brakes. I suppose you could get them done with less, but, hey! Brake fluid is cheap and it's nice to flush out the lines and such (as you've found out).
Don't worry, you're almost there and you WILL get to drive it again real soon!
Adjusting the brake shoes at all four corners has everything to do with brake pedal height (assuming you've already adjusted the pedal for correct free-play). Just take your time and try to get them all about the same. If one side is a little tight, it will cause the car to pull to that side when the brakes are applied. The solution is to either tighten the other side to match (if you can) or back off the side which it's pulling toward. This is a trial-and-error approach and gets the four corners "tuned in". BTW: I have a slight pull to the right when I step on the pedal, and a slight pull to the LEFT when I pull on the hand-brake (two different shoes on the back causing this). It's not too bad, though, and I'm too lazy to correct it right now (or too busy building my wife's greenhouse before Carlisle!!).
gn
discs dont need adjusted do they....
288 for front
290 for rear discs
even after getting all this fixed now, I am still thinking about converting just so I dont have to adjust these :) Or, how much are new shoes - Faster than readjusting - they were adjusted to new so i could just throw new shoes on em right and they'd already be adjusted? its not that easy is it.
288 for front
290 for rear discs
even after getting all this fixed now, I am still thinking about converting just so I dont have to adjust these :) Or, how much are new shoes - Faster than readjusting - they were adjusted to new so i could just throw new shoes on em right and they'd already be adjusted? its not that easy is it.
Hey Nic, by the way I'll bet there's more than a few of us here following this dialog with interest, knowing we may be dealing with the same or similar problem. So don't be too hard on yourself man. I've got drums too, luckily they're working fine - at the moment. When I do have to dig into them, I'll be looking back at this discussion.
Yeah, Nic, you're the guinea pig for the rest of us.........
Let's see.......NO! Disks don't need to be adjusted.
Come on, now, adjusting your drum-brake shoes is the easy part! It doesn't take long to do, either! (OK, maybe 15 minutes per wheel, tops).
Shoes are under $20 per set (wheel) at Mid-America
Pre-adjusting them "for new" is a myth, especially of you have used drums which have a wear lip. You can maybe get in the ball park, but that's about it.
The only way to do it right is to do each shoe on each wheel independantly until they "scuff" the drum, then hop in, press the brake pedal a couple of times (to re-center the shoe) and re-adjust until it consistently scuffs the drum, then back off slightly to let it run free and your done with that shoe, and on to the next. Sounds time consuming, but it goes pretty fast once you get going.
After all that, I have disks on the front only, and drums on the rear. Seems to stop OK for me..........(even though I'm too lazy right now to correct the pulling slightly to the right!!!!)
gn
Let's see.......NO! Disks don't need to be adjusted.
Come on, now, adjusting your drum-brake shoes is the easy part! It doesn't take long to do, either! (OK, maybe 15 minutes per wheel, tops).
Shoes are under $20 per set (wheel) at Mid-America
Pre-adjusting them "for new" is a myth, especially of you have used drums which have a wear lip. You can maybe get in the ball park, but that's about it.
The only way to do it right is to do each shoe on each wheel independantly until they "scuff" the drum, then hop in, press the brake pedal a couple of times (to re-center the shoe) and re-adjust until it consistently scuffs the drum, then back off slightly to let it run free and your done with that shoe, and on to the next. Sounds time consuming, but it goes pretty fast once you get going.
After all that, I have disks on the front only, and drums on the rear. Seems to stop OK for me..........(even though I'm too lazy right now to correct the pulling slightly to the right!!!!)
gn
hows this go....
the last wagon train left st louis in 1886.... all killed by indians...
if they would have left 7 months later they could have taken the train...
Still want to be a pioneer they say?
HELL YES!, they're the ones that found all that damn gold!
ps. no gold was found in my brake drums. :(
the last wagon train left st louis in 1886.... all killed by indians...
if they would have left 7 months later they could have taken the train...
Still want to be a pioneer they say?
HELL YES!, they're the ones that found all that damn gold!
ps. no gold was found in my brake drums. :(
Just remember.......
The guys who REALLY struck it rich in the various Gold Rushes were the guys selling supplies to the people looking for gold. That's how Levi Strauss struck it big, and those few families in Seattle who controlled the shipping on the Upper Pacific Coast.
The guys who REALLY struck it rich in the various Gold Rushes were the guys selling supplies to the people looking for gold. That's how Levi Strauss struck it big, and those few families in Seattle who controlled the shipping on the Upper Pacific Coast.
off jack stands... sure is easy adjusting that brake pedal after you REALLY do know how it works :) - all brakes bled, but i think ill do it again when i put it up this week again to adjust all the pads out. the pedal is pretty close to the floor but i can still lock up the fronts pretty easily. I need to tap a hole in the floor where there is still brake fluid standing underneith the pedal assembly. I will probably have to take out the pedal assembly to repaint and clean it all up from the fluid leaking into the car. i will need to fix some wiring rubbing the front left tire too that i noticed while this whole think went down...
stripped a front lug, got it cut off and will replace that stud tomorrow. my adapters are to chevy...
front discs are actually 213... vw 4 lug. comes with everything. only thing that stopped me from buying them today was knowing as things go with me, i probably wouldnt be driving it again for a week or 2. :( - its already been too long... ill save that project for another weekend down the road. also noticed a nice big nail in my right rear tire - not good. and got a whole lot more aquainted with this car over the past few weeks. Got a new breather box today, quickshift kit and a few other things from cb, whom i will never order from again. 3 weeks from order to arrive, not cool for me... plus prices are higher than the local shop.
thanks again for everyones help... we'll let this thread die now. :) NEXT!
stripped a front lug, got it cut off and will replace that stud tomorrow. my adapters are to chevy...
front discs are actually 213... vw 4 lug. comes with everything. only thing that stopped me from buying them today was knowing as things go with me, i probably wouldnt be driving it again for a week or 2. :( - its already been too long... ill save that project for another weekend down the road. also noticed a nice big nail in my right rear tire - not good. and got a whole lot more aquainted with this car over the past few weeks. Got a new breather box today, quickshift kit and a few other things from cb, whom i will never order from again. 3 weeks from order to arrive, not cool for me... plus prices are higher than the local shop.
thanks again for everyones help... we'll let this thread die now. :) NEXT!
Wow. Finally got around to reading this thread and I have to say Nic, your having the worst luck with these brakes. Reminds me of all the bad luck I had with by '52 jeep (chriskate.net/jeep). The thing just seemed to be a major money pit, but when it ran it was a blast. It's gone now. I wish I were as close as you are to actually driving.
I ended up going disks all around. If you haven't already gotten them, I think from CB Performance you can get blank disks (with no bolt pattern), and then you can take them to a machine shop and have them drill out your correct bolt pattern. Then you don't have to mess around with adapters.
Oh, and I can relate to your bleeding issues. It took me forever to get my system bleed out as I replaced everything. It took quite a while and lots of pumping to get all that air out.
Good luck!
I ended up going disks all around. If you haven't already gotten them, I think from CB Performance you can get blank disks (with no bolt pattern), and then you can take them to a machine shop and have them drill out your correct bolt pattern. Then you don't have to mess around with adapters.
Oh, and I can relate to your bleeding issues. It took me forever to get my system bleed out as I replaced everything. It took quite a while and lots of pumping to get all that air out.
Good luck!
if i go with new discs drilled for the new pattern, i think im going to wait until i can buy all new rims to match the porsche pattern....
are these little calipers really it? i guess you dont need 13" dual piston calipers on these things to get em to stop eh.... ahhh, still converting the brain from chevy. :)
are these little calipers really it? i guess you dont need 13" dual piston calipers on these things to get em to stop eh.... ahhh, still converting the brain from chevy. :)
Yea the stepping up from Chebby can be a brain teaser. But it,s all good.
stepping "over" to the chevy.... Im definitely not ready to call it a step "up" :) - 400hp in 3600 lb car still feels better than 90hp in 1600 lb car. That and I can still take on/off ramps at 55 in the camaro... the speedster wants to start skippin those front tires :)