Brand new alternator destroyed itself leaving me stranded...

So... I see one of 2 possibilities here.

1) welcome to the modern world of $h!t QC regardless of the name brand...  it's become a joke around the shop that we rebuild, remake, modify and/or heavily test every part we use and nothing is usable "out of the box" anymore.  The labor time we put into a build has nearly doubled due to this and that is not a joke.

2) the threads are pulled out and not actually loose due to an overtightened fan belt.

More important than that; this is also the turning of your cooling fan and how your engine survives.  When the alternator failed you should have gotten an alternator/fan failure light in your combination gauge and subsequently you should have seen your oil temperature gauge start to climb.  What concerns me is that your car SHOULD have run off the battery until the battery was drained dead, which isn't a quick thing unless you had a previously weak battery or had a ton of accessories running (and even then it'll run off the battery surprisingly long, 20-30 minutes or more).

Check for any blown fuses

@chines1 posted:

So... I see one of 2 possibilities here.

1) welcome to the modern world of $h!t QC regardless of the name brand...  it's become a joke around the shop that we rebuild, remake, modify and/or heavily test every part we use and nothing is usable "out of the box" anymore.  The labor time we put into a build has nearly doubled due to this and that is not a joke.

2) the threads are pulled out and not actually loose due to an overtightened fan belt.

More important than that; this is also the turning of your cooling fan and how your engine survives.  When the alternator failed you should have gotten an alternator/fan failure light in your combination gauge and subsequently you should have seen your oil temperature gauge start to climb.  What concerns me is that your car SHOULD have run off the battery until the battery was drained dead, which isn't a quick thing unless you had a previously weak battery or had a ton of accessories running (and even then it'll run off the battery surprisingly long, 20-30 minutes or more).

That was my first thought, that I may have had the belt too tight.. what is the correct procedure for installing/tensioning the fan belt?

I only smelled the pulley burning into the alternator for about 25 seconds before the car shutoff and I pulled over. I don't think my fan stopped running for very long.

Didn't have smoke out the tailpipe like I blew my engine

@Jack Bolton

DANG, Jack! Glad it didn't get any worse that what you've described.

As for fan-belt tightness, you may already know that fan-belt tension is adjusted by adding or removing the shims between the two halves of the pulley (with the excess shims being placed behind the cap/nut used to tighten the two pulley halves together). You should be able to deflect the fan belt no more than 1/2 inch. The  attached pic is the best I can find (on short notice) to demonstrate that deflection.

Click on pic to enlarge...

Hope you find this info helpful!

Use shims between the pulley halves to tighten and loosen the belt.  Tons of info on Google about how to do this.  In short, more shims between makes it looser, less makes it tighter. Excess shims go under the nut.   Once you have the halves tightened and torqued (43 ft/lbs), spin it around a few times and recheck that it is tight, and then test your belt tension.  The factory instruction on testing belt tension is pretty nebulous  in that they don't/can't tell you how hard to push on there belt, but a moderate push on the belt with your thumb and it should move roughly 5/8"  (factory spec is 1.5cm or 0.600").  I've also seen old VW guys grab the belt and twist it, saying you should be able to twist it 90 degrees easily and that is the same tension...

Too tight of a belt can cause several issues, and in theory could cause the one you've experienced.  I actually watched a guy over tighten his belt and take off down the street, ripping the alternator and fan out of the doghouse and breaking the oil stand in half.

As for your failure, I'm thinking it must have started to separate and stopped charging before it ate itself up.  That's the only explanation as to how it ran the battery down, but its hard to say and all guess work at this point...  Did you ever get a warning light?

@chines1 posted:

As for your failure, I'm thinking it must have started to separate and stopped charging before it ate itself up.  That's the only explanation as to how it ran the battery down, but its hard to say and all guess work at this point...  Did you ever get a warning light?

Unfortunately the way this car is wired isnt like most speedsters, the signal wire doesn't go to a light, but instead to a relay.

My battery is still healthy, 12.8 volts

Is the ignition tied into the power wire going to the alternator? The stud on the top of the alternator is all loosy goosey...

Broke my pulley too

I believe my fan tension was correct, I had done some research and had about half an inch of deflection and the belt would turn just bout 90 degree's

I think the bolts did back themselves out, the threads are not stripped ...

Welp, looks like it.  One more thing for everyone to be checking with new alternators.  On your replacement I'd pull them one at a time and loctite them.

@Nolan posted:

Check for any blown fuses

I found a brown fuse! I'm sure this is why my power disappeared! Thanks @Nolan

@chines1 posted:

Welp, looks like it.  One more thing for everyone to be checking with new alternators.  On your replacement I'd pull them one at a time and loctite them.

The one I hate the most is the new clutch kits...

When the alignment tool isn't correct and they make you align it with your eye balls, pretty frustrating..

Or what about the mechanical fuel pump I bought from O'Reilly's that had a faulty spring..

Oh yeah and that over time when I got a crank seal that had excess rubber that caused the seal to leak after putting the engine and transmission back together..

My friend/mentor and I have theory that china wants to screw us as hard as possible, so they sell parts that are 1/10th the price but only have a 50% chance of working correctly.

This is a Bosch alternator, thought I did the right thing by ordering parts from  name brand, like you said can't trust any of em!

Can anyone tell me which way this air port on the fan shield goes? Does it face up like in the picture or does it need to face down?

Vent faces down.

@LI-Rick posted:

Vent faces down.

Thanks a ton rick!

This was the email response I got from one of the guys at CBperformance, can anyone verify that this is legit? not sure if the heat expanding the metal would be enough to make the pulley make contact with the alternator... there is at least an 1/8th inch of clearance there and I don't know that the metal would expand that much..

Lemme’ guess. David from CBP?

Jack, when you first posted your pictures, I noticed the fan belt was pretty low in the pulley which would mean it was really tight or the wrong size belt for sure. But I see that the pulley also broke which could make the belt look lower between the pulley halves. When I ran VW power my belts were right level with the top of the pulley and the 1/2 in play was checked.as Jim said. Those shims are an important part. Good luck getting the car sorted.

Dave

@Stan Galat posted:

Lemme’ guess. David from CBP?

Spot on

@Butcher Boy posted:

Jack, when you first posted your pictures, I noticed the fan belt was pretty low in the pulley which would mean it was really tight or the wrong size belt for sure. But I see that the pulley also broke which could make the belt look lower between the pulley halves. When I ran VW power my belts were right level with the top of the pulley and the 1/2 in play was checked.as Jim said. Those shims are an important part. Good luck getting the car sorted.

Dave

Yeah the pulley was broken which caused it to look all "hammajang" as we say in Hawaii

I do believe I had the belt tensioned correctly, it has a half inch of deflection Like someone recommended above..

The belt was up on top of the pulley, not sitting super deep like in the pictures.

@Jack Bolton posted:

Spot on

It's not just you, Jack. I think it's David's goal to singlehandedly run CBP out of business with his astoundingly poor customer service. Every question or special request is met with a flat "no". Ask to buy bare Panchitos from Mark, and the answer is "sure". If you have the misfortune to ask David -- it's "sorry, no-- we don't sell them like that".

Ask Mark for help with a programming issue with the Black Box and he'll spend half a day helping you figure it out. Ask David, and he'll tell you it's user error.

I miss Daniel.

It looks like my belt that's decently new has started to fall apart, this tells me my tension might have been to tight after all, what do you guys think?

How can I find the correct belt for my alternator? I'm wondering if that belt I got from AutoZone is the correct belt... I took off the original and it's long gone in the landfill somewhere.

I did compare the two when I purchased it and they were identical in size, I can't remember if I compared the teeth size/spacing.

I have a 1970 vw engine in my car,at the parts stores do I just lookup a fan belt for a 70's beetle?

Is the belt for the generator the same for the alternator?

That belt wear looks more like a belt that was spinning on a pulley that wasn't, melted in the middle from friction.  That's what I'd have expected to see based on your failure.

Teeth vs. no teeth or tooth count isn't important, that's more for anti-belt roll, added flexibility, minor offsets in pulleys when compared to a solid belt.

The part number of the belt reveals the details, end number is the size.  11AV890 is 890mm long.  There are so many different pulley diameters that there isn't a "standard" for most of us.  That said, my parts book lists the most common stock belt size as 912mm and 2 variants at 905mm and 917mm.  So you may be a touch short.  You'd just have to test after install and torque/spin/retorque.

Just a thought: You could install one of those serpentine belt kits that make it super easy to adjust tension.  I had one on my Speedster and really liked it.

I just saw this on the Pat Downs website which is a Gates belt and gives the dimension at 36".  You don't need a racing belt, but he recommends this as a stock-length belt for racing engines.

https://shop.patdownsperforman...s-powerated-fan-belt

From Carey's post and using the Google Conculater 5000 to convert lengths, a 912mm belt is 36 inches long.   An 890mm belt is only 35" long so that would potentially make it really tight.

@Gordon Nichols posted:

I just saw this on the Pat Downs website which is a Gates belt and gives the dimension at 36".  You don't need a racing belt, but he recommends this as a stock-length belt for racing engines.

https://shop.patdownsperforman...s-powerated-fan-belt

From Carey's post and using the Google Conculater 5000 to convert lengths, a 912mm belt is 36 inches long.   An 890mm belt is only 35" long so that would potentially make it really tight.

Thank you so much for this! The belt at AutoZone I found was a little bit larger, sounds like I may have made a mistake and gotten to short of a belt after all.

I'll try their belt and see what the tension is like

I assume you also have a new alternator pulley?  Shims to go with it?

@Gordon Nichols posted:

I assume you also have a new alternator pulley?  Shims to go with it?

I had purchased a new pulley because mine had some rust on it, for $35 I was willing to get a nice shiny pulley.

Throwing the rusty one back on there for now, and I have 8 shims total..

The rust is on the face of the pulley, just superficial. Sure I could scrub it up with some steel wool

At AutoZone getting a 912mm belt

Do yourself a favor.  Mount the new pulley to the alternator and give it a spin.  See if it runs true.  If it runs reasonably true, then install the belt with all 10 shims between the pulley halves.  Then spin the motor over by hand to settle the belt.  Check tension.  If it is loose, take one shim out at a time and repeat until the tension is correct.  This will take you a little longer, but you will get it right.  I have seen people sort of guess at it, put only a few shims in, tighten, say all good and then wonder why the pulley is wobbling.  The reason is they get the belt hung up on the pulley and the pulley halves never come together properly.

@LI-Rick posted:

Do yourself a favor.  Mount the new pulley to the alternator and give it a spin.  See if it runs true.  If it runs reasonably true, then install the belt with all 10 shims between the pulley halves.  Then spin the motor over by hand to settle the belt.  Check tension.  If it is loose, take one shim out at a time and repeat until the tension is correct.  This will take you a little longer, but you will get it right.  I have seen people sort of guess at it, put only a few shims in, tighten, say all good and then wonder why the pulley is wobbling.  The reason is they get the belt hung up on the pulley and the pulley halves never come together properly.

Thanks for the advice! Ill follow this and do the shims one at a time!

And please make sure you put the extra shims between the outer pulley half and the nut. They are all needed in there.