Brand New Alternator not charging

"Does the alternator need to be grounded? I have one ground wire on the back right corner of the car that is not hooked up and Im not sure where it belongs, It was hanging under the car when I purchased it."

Not quite sure about that one - Can you provide a photo of it?

There should be a braided ground strap from the front transmission mount to the frame/pan/chassis to provide ground to the engine.  

The alternator gets grounded through the stand it sits on, and then through the engine and transmission to the frame/pan via that braided strap.

As you've found, there are only two wires going to the alternator:  A large, 8-10 gauge wire connected to the Alt post on top, and a much smaller, 14 gauge wire.  That little wire goes to your dash gauge Alt light on the bottom of the Tachometer.  If that dash light is burned out, the alternator will not charge because it gets its charging signal through that light.  If the light is burnt out or not making connection, the alternator will not charge.

The other side of that dash bulb must connect to +12 volts at the fuse panel - NOT GROUND.  On my car, that wire connects to the ignition circuit so it sees +12 volts when the engine is running and the alternator starts charging.  

So you need to insure that the wire from the D+ connection on the alternator (it is a 14" fast-on tab there) to the dash bulb is making connection at both ends, that the dash bulb is OK and making connection (light sandpaper here and there could do wonders for you) OR that the wire from the bulb to the fuse panel is providing +12 volts to the bulb when the key is on.

Let us know how you make out.

@Gordon Nichols posted:

That little wire goes to your dash gauge Alt light on the bottom of the Tachometer.  If that dash light is burned out, the alternator will not charge because it gets its charging signal through that light.  If the light is burnt out or not making connection, the alternator will not charge.

The other side of that dash bulb must connect to +12 volts at the fuse panel - NOT GROUND.  ... Let us know how you make out.

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Go ahead and ground the alternator, but connect the wire everybody is talking about to the idiot light.

@Gordon Nichols

Got it fixed! Thanks for the quick reply. Found out that my car doesn't have an "idiot light" The signal wire was going to a relay, When I first got the car and was trying to button up the wires hanging down from under the dash the wires to this relay got disconnected, I thought I had put them back correctly but obviously not!

Found out which wire went where and now the alternator charges, now to get my blinkers to start working again... randomly stopped working.

That's GREAT!  Good sleuthing....   And Happy Charging!

I can't help with the Blinkahs, though.  Mine use an OEM VW Blinkah flasher with four wires on it and it was hard enough to get that running.  If it is intermittent, then it's most likely a loose connection so turn them on and start messing with the wiring under the dash to see where the loose connection is.

If you turn them on and a bulb lights but the other end doesn't then start looking from the switch to that bulb/end for something loose.  Usually, if a bulb is out or disconnected, the flasher will act weird.

We have these signs near Boston, just so the "Massholes" unnah stan:

That's especially true for @Al Gallo out on the Cape Cod Sand Bar with all of those brain-numbed tourists from New York and Connecticut.

Hey, come to think of it, check out that hanging ground wire at the back right corner that you mentioned.  That might be the source of your Blinkahs not working.

Here is a photo of that ground wire, I don't think that is the source, simply because it's never been connected and my blinkers did work before this week. I couldn't find the flasher anywhere! So lost...

@Gordon Nichols I'm also curious, if I wanted to rewire the entire car, where would I start? Is there a wiring kit that isn't thousands of dollars?

I'm pretty sure a blind chimpanzee wired this car together and it has all kinds of loose ends.

They used eyelets and quick connectors as butt connectors and taped them up. When I crawl under the dash it makes me want to barf.

I'm planning to rent my Speedster to tourists, I need it to be as reliable as possible, I think wiring is definitely a really important piece to this puzzle.

Welcome to the madness was no joke!

@Jack Bolton posted:

@Gordon Nichols I'm also curious, if I wanted to rewire the entire car, where would I start? Is there a wiring kit that isn't thousands of dollars?

I'm pretty sure a blind chimpanzee wired this car together and it has all kinds of loose ends.

They used eyelets and quick connectors as butt connectors and taped them up. When I crawl under the dash it makes me want to barf.

I'm planning to rent my Speedster to tourists, I need it to be as reliable as possible, I think wiring is definitely a really important piece to this puzzle.

Welcome to the madness was no joke!

I've wired at least 40 Speedsters using Greg's Vintage Motorcar's  wiring harness. It's made right the lengths are correct, all that's needed are your two relays, flasher and a few well placed grounds.

@Alan Merklin is this the harness you are referring too? https://www.vintagemotorcarsin...duct/wiring-harness/

Are there any writeups on how to wire a speedster, start to finish?

$329 is a great deal!

Yes, that is a great deal.  I was gonna mention that one, too.  It has everything you need, and nothing that you don't and applies to any builder's car.

When you order it, ask if they have the wiring diagram and wire colors for each destination, too.  I would trust Alan as he's done a boat-load of cars with that harness.  I once had the old VS wiring diagram (got it off of here) but I don't know if that is still valid for color/size/destination with Greg's new shop so try to get a current one (and maybe post it on here).

If your car is a vintage, the flasher might sit on top of the steering column.

If it's a home-brew car it could be anywhere, but probably under the dash somewhere within 3 feet of the directional lever/switch.  Typically a round, silver can about 1-1/2" across and 2" tall with two or three 1/4" fast-on tab connections on one end.  

Lord knows, it might be in the Frunk - stranger things have happened, especially with me!

s @Jack Bolton posted:

@Alan Merklin is this the harness you are referring too? https://www.vintagemotorcarsin...duct/wiring-harness/

Are there any writeups on how to wire a speedster, start to finish?

$329 is a great deal!

Yes there is an updated schematic just ask Anna-Greg at Vintage Motorcars for it when ordering, it's simple to follow and if you get hung up just ask Greg or message me.

d

You could invite Alan (and me!) over to install it for you.  All we ask is a couple of beds and Kona coffee…….    🤷‍♂️

Some Saimin would be nice.  And the occasional Kona beer.  🤪

We don’t ask much.

Maybe put the beds at the Mauna Lani, OK?

Aloha @Jack Bolton

My family and I are moving to Waimea, B.I end of July. My 550 Spyder replica from VMC will be on island before we get there. If you ever wanna go for a ride or need some mechanical help once my  tools get there I’m happy to try & help.

Feel free to shoot me a PM

@Gordon Nichols posted:

You could invite Alan (and me!) over to install it for you.  All we ask is a couple of beds and Kona coffee…….    🤷‍♂️

Some Saimin would be nice.  And the occasional Kona beer.  🤪

We don’t ask much.

Maybe put the beds at the Mauna Lani, OK?

I would gladly invite you gentlemen over for a stay!

The speedster needs some love for sure, I really want to rewire it so I have the peace of mind.

We have fresh fish too if you are into that kinda thing

I used to work at the Mauna lani actually! What an incredible place to stay, I think the only bed I could afford would be the ones the Hawaiians used, some palm fronds on the beach might work alright, maybe the golf course would be a good spot to setup camp!

Jokes aside, if you want to plan a trip give me a call! 808-987-3835

@Alan Merklin

@Gordon Nichols

By the way, today on a test drive I broke down... Again...

This time I was just out of gas! New lesson learned, don't let the fuel gauge go below 1/4 tank!

@Chappy posted:

Aloha @Jack Bolton

My family and I are moving to Waimea, B.I end of July. My 550 Spyder replica from VMC will be on island before we get there. If you ever wanna go for a ride or need some mechanical help once my  tools get there I’m happy to try & help.

Feel free to shoot me a PM

@Chappy Aloha Chappy! Thanks for the offer! Definitely will have to go for a cruise sometime once you get here! I'll be continuously working on this car by the looks of it.. welcome to the madness was no joke 🤣

When I first retired seven years ago I was going to put myself out there for Speedster specific build services...... " Fly - Dine and Pay Me "

@Alan Merklin posted:

When I first retired seven years ago I was going to put myself out there for Speedster specific build services...... " Fly - Dine and Pay Me "

@Alan Merklin whereabouts do you live? This would be an incredibly valuable service!

I'll fly you out with my airline miles and give you the guest bedroom! Fresh fish on me!

Kona brewing has some killer beers 🍺 🍻

@Jack Bolton posted:

@Alan Merklin whereabouts do you live? This would be an incredibly valuable service!

I'll fly you out with my airline miles and give you the guest bedroom! Fresh fish on me!

Kona brewing has some killer beers 🍺 🍻

I’m a novice fly fisherman but I cannot wait to get out in the Kona waters for some Mahi, Marlin and Wahoo fishing!

If anyone finds their way to the Big Island we are going to be a stones throw away from Big Island Brewhaus in Waimea, first round is on me!

My only fear of Big Island thus far is not hitting any goats in the spyder. Would not end well for either of us I’m afraid.

I am retired for the past seven years in the mountains of Elkins, West Virginia, we begin my journey out of these hills via a single lane country road that winds, climbs and dips for just over two hours while an occasional twang of a banjo can be overheard before arriving at a recognizable RT 68 a four lane interstate . Then head west young man to west to Morgantown, WV where I would board a puddle jumper to Pittsburg PA then do an about face flying eastward to BWI Baltimore where I would again do an about face to fly west ....that's how the cookie crumbles out here.... but I love it and the people are friendly and kind hearted. :~)

I don't want to rain on the party here, but I believe Jack has Mike Pickett's injected car, so a VMC harness will be about half the wiring needed to "rewire".

@Stan Galat posted:

I don't want to rain on the party here, but I believe Jack has Mike Pickett's injected car, so a VMC harness will be about half the wiring needed to "rewire".

Not raining on the party! I did get the pleasure of riding in Mike Pickett's car and that car was immaculate, nothing needed and completely transformed from when he bought it.

The car I bought was in los Angeles and I bought it from a dealer "Dennis buys cars" it was a trade in and was built by CMC.. well built by an individual after he bought the kit from CMC.

Like I said, this car looks like a blind chimpanzee wired it, definitely not Mike Pickett's work. In fact, when I rode in mikes car before he sold it, I didn't see a single wire in the entire car, mine are hanging out the bottom of the dash like someone tossed a bundle of cooked spaghetti up in the dash... I'll take some pictures and show you what I'm dealing with..

Got it -- and I'm sorry to confuse both you and the issue.

Please proceed with your normally scheduled program!

Pictures of my mess of a car.

Embarrassing to even post these. Like I said it makes me want to barf 🤢 🤢

@Jack Bolton posted:

Pictures of my mess of a car.

Embarrassing to even post these. Like I said it makes me want to barf 🤢 🤢

You're lucky the previous wiring expert didn't purchase a 200' roll of red 14 gauge Chinese wire, some assorted lamp zip cord with friction tape and wire nuts .....

The flasher relay is circled in red.  What is the thing circled in yellow?

At 60 cents a pound you have $$$ worth of excess copper wire!

@WOLFGANG posted:

The flasher relay is circled in red.  What is the thing circled in yellow?

At 60 cents a pound you have $$$ worth of excess copper wire!

That's the Bluetooth radio microphone so I can chat on the phone.

Thanks for pointing out the flasher relay! How can I test it to see if it needs replacing?

@Alan Merklin posted:

You're lucky the previous wiring expert didn't purchase a 200' roll of red 14 gauge Chinese wire, some assorted lamp zip cord with friction tape and wire nuts .....

I guess it could be worse, but I'm sure you understand a newbie looking up in there is quite the doozy.

.

Jack, how are your flashers failing?

Intermittently? As in working today. but not yesterday? Or, only after you slam the driver's door three times?

All at once failed or only one side at a time, or maybe only one lamp failed at a time?

Knowing this will help the diagnosis.

Also, since you now know where the flasher is and it looks like you can inspect the wires leading to it, you might as well replace it, or at least get a replacement for when it does fail. Most NAPA stores have them for around $15, but first check if you have the two- or three-wire kind.

BTW, you needn't be ashamed of your wiring. Whoever did it was a sensitive artist. He appears to have been inspired by the earlier work of Jackson Pollock:

.

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@Sacto Mitch posted:

.

Jack, how are your flashers failing?

Intermittently? As in working today. but not yesterday? Or, only after you slam the driver's door three times?

All at once failed or only one side at a time, or maybe only one lamp failed at a time?

Knowing this will help the diagnosis.

Also, since you now know where the flasher is and it looks like you can inspect the wires leading to it, you might as well replace it, or at least get a replacement for when it does fail. Most NAPA stores have them for around $15, but first check if you have the two- or three-wire kind.

BTW, you needn't be ashamed of your wiring. Whoever did it was a sensitive artist. He appears to have been inspired by the earlier work of Jackson Pollock:

.

.

Thanks for the message, and the laugh! My friends cant believe I have not heard of Jackson Pollock, I guess he's kinda famous, who woulda known.

My blinkers worked when I first got the car, then I noticed they were not working. Then they worked again one day. Next day they didn't work, they have not worked since then. I believe its something simple, loose wire I suspect. Ill track the wires from the flasher tomorrow!

I would turn the key on, flip the directional lever to one side so it should be flashing, then reach up and simply move the wires around near the flasher to see if it starts flashing.  If no joy, then follow the wires to where-ever they go from the flasher to see if it suddenly starts working and then find out why that part makes it intermittent.  

At least it's a start.

Buy the harness.

Wow.

I'm with @Stan Galat.  That wiring is a mess.  It'd be a bunch of work to change it out, but once done, you shouldn't have further issues.  With what you have I suspect you'll be chasing problem after problem forever.

Chances are that you either have a bad flasher relay, or not enough load to activate the relay due to a bad ground or bad bulb.  The latter is less likely or it would (usually) work in one direction and not the other.  Could also be the turn signal lever itself, it has contacts that slide together and make the connection, and I believe from your photos you have the old VW style which are "bumps" pressed into a copper plate.  These can wear down flat or build up corrosion.

FYI: The stamped metal can style flasher relay that is pictured (commonly NAPA or Bussman brand) are pretty crappy and prone to failure these days.  I guess you can't expect much for $4.  Spend the big bucks ($10 maybe) and get the next step up which comes in a smoked clear plastic case (CEC, Novita brand) they tend to be better quality.

In all honesty, the OEM VW wiring was a rat's nest!  It just was hidden by a cardboard cover.

I bet a ground has come loose or corroded somewhere in that mess! I'd be very suspicious of all those crimped blue butt connectors.  You could remove them one at a time cut the excess wire (leaving may a foot), ensure the ends are clean (not green), slip on heat shrink tubing, new bare butt connector, crimp and solder, then cover with the shrink wrap, heat to shrink.  You could use bread ties to temporarily organize and, when cleaned up, use small nylon zip ties and that black accordion split wire covering.  Then use nylon zip ties to hold it all up to cross member (out of view and eliminating vibration). Just watch out for smoke stored in all the wires!!!!!

I'd replace the turn signal flasher with a heavy-duty one or one that also works with LEDs. 

@Alan Merklin posted:

You're lucky the previous wiring expert didn't purchase a 200' roll of red 14 gauge Chinese wire, some assorted lamp zip cord with friction tape and wire nuts .....

That option comes "free" as a "feature" on JPS. Pretty much two colors, red and white that they use.

I really don't have anything useful to add here that has not been said. An earlier remark about a single reel of red Chinese wire being used to wire a speedster pretty much describes my car, which was built to my order by a "reputable" commercial builder.  There is the occasional white wire in there too.  So I feel your pain.  It's all to easy to get wires mixed up when tracing or trying to redo something.  Oh, the stories I could tell. 

We don't have a full picture of this car yet, but from what you show and tell here, I hope the price was right.  This tub looks like it needs a lot of TLC.  I'll further observe that "hand built fiberglass Speedster wired by a blind chimpanzee" and "reliable transportation" are oxymoronic phrases.  AKA: The Madness.  I wish you luck.

@WOLFGANG posted:

I'd replace the turn signal flasher with a heavy-duty one or one that also works with LEDs.

I'm probably wrong here.

But, I purchased a couple(to have a spare) LED flasher units. They are specifically designed to work with LED turn/stop lights and NOT incandescent bulbs.

So I'm going with either/or and NOT both. My two pennies.

And Kelly, having a JPS, makes my afore-mentioned point. Kelly got red. Tom Dewalt got mostly white wire...