I'm sure your new system will sound really good. And it will be plenty loud enough. the Magnaflow mufflers have a great tone to them. I don't know what it takes to put sound on a post, maybe somebody better at this than I can advise.
The merged system on my IM "D" is visible but does not protrude beyond the lower rear body apron; that may be due to the fact that the engine in an IM tube frame car is about 2 3/4" farther than in a pan based replica.
I've positioned my muffler up in the same location that George's muffle is and mine won't fit. So, it is going to go vertical, along side the value covers. You would not believe the amount of aluminum fins in an older heater box! I'm going to use just part of the fins...about 10 inches, for each side. My fabricator is going to cut a section fo the fins off and weld/bolt them on to a fabricated 1 5/8 inch modifed 'J' tube, then weld on the skins from my newer, 1 3/8 " hollow, heater boxes. He is also going to modify the merged header to meet the end of the heater boxes. It isn't going to be cheap, but I should end up with a rare set-up: a merged header exhaust system with fined 1 5/8 heater boxes. I say 'should', because it ain't over til the fat lady sings (and the system works).
Ron
Ron
Ron, I just realized I never answered your question regarding my muffler. I am running a MAC muffler with a racing merged header.
You can read more about them here:
www.macmuffler.com/Sound.htm
(Message Edited 1/22/2003 10:04:09 AM)
You can read more about them here:
www.macmuffler.com/Sound.htm
(Message Edited 1/22/2003 10:04:09 AM)
Thanks Colton. I'm going down to the fabricators tomorrow (the car is finally getting on the hoist). He's also going to do some of my heater box work. Now I know why no one wants to build 1 5/8 heater boxes/merged headers combos! Cheap it will not be, but they will be finned and should work well. I just hope it doesn't sound too loud, with the Magnaflow on. I want to be "heard" but I don't want to look like some 'cheese eating, pimple faced, high school geek driving a clapped out, rusted out 68 Beetle with a stock 1600 with a stinger.
Ron
Ron
Well, the car is up on the hoist and I explained to the fabricator what I wanted, including the 1 5/8 " heater boxes. When I asked approximately how much this would cost me, he just asked me if I had a heart condition. Me thinks this doesn't sound good. Going back tomorrow with my digital camera, to check on the progress.
Ron
Ron
Well, the aluminum fins are a bust. Too much trouble trying to rebore a lump of aluminum with a steel tube in the center. Also, what to do with the square end (1/3 of the aluminum fined center had a square-holed center). If I cut off the square end each box would only be 4 or 5 inches long. Not worth the trouble. Not worth the expense.
Ron
Ron
Yeah I sure do like Eddies exhaust, very nicely done. I'm sure he's got no issue with ground clearance either. I've gotta give him credit. For me it took about two years to get a decent exhaust on my car and I've bought several experimenting with them. My wish list was being able to adjust the valves without removing the exhaust, getting decent ground clrearance, and having a decent size (at least 1.5" with heater boxes).
I found all this stuff at Custom Speed Parts. I got a stainless setup and the guy also sells 1.5" heater boxes. All I had to do was simply go to a muffler shop after installing the setup and weld on some tips, the two pipes were just a little short for the car. The exhaust is from Germany, sounds good but not too loud.
Of course all that stuff was alot of coin.
Here's the link below.
J-P
www.csp-shop.de/cgi-bin/shop2/shop_main.cgi?func=start&wkid=44705213269
I found all this stuff at Custom Speed Parts. I got a stainless setup and the guy also sells 1.5" heater boxes. All I had to do was simply go to a muffler shop after installing the setup and weld on some tips, the two pipes were just a little short for the car. The exhaust is from Germany, sounds good but not too loud.
Of course all that stuff was alot of coin.
Here's the link below.
J-P
www.csp-shop.de/cgi-bin/shop2/shop_main.cgi?func=start&wkid=44705213269
J-P, I've heard the system you have is first class. I think Jim Ward has the same one. How about some pictures.
Is your CSP system one that you have to remove to adjust the valves?
JP -
Looks like a great system
I assume the exhaust system you purchased is the - Exhaust Super-Competition Stainless-Steel, with heaters and heat-risers - Stock number 251 001 038SEVH.
I'm thinking about buying one of those myself; I have also been looking at the BAS systems.
Is the BAS High Performance exhaust system - Streetsport Stock number 21137 (www.ahnendorp.com/beetle1.html) the same system? It appears the 21137 model has some additional clamps near the point where the exhaust pipes exit out from the valance.
Does your system have those clamps?
I also the same question as GB; do you need to remove the mufflers to adjust the valves.
Thanks
PS - I'd like to see some pictures too!
(Message Edited 2/5/2003 8:47:05 PM)
Looks like a great system
I assume the exhaust system you purchased is the - Exhaust Super-Competition Stainless-Steel, with heaters and heat-risers - Stock number 251 001 038SEVH.
I'm thinking about buying one of those myself; I have also been looking at the BAS systems.
Is the BAS High Performance exhaust system - Streetsport Stock number 21137 (www.ahnendorp.com/beetle1.html) the same system? It appears the 21137 model has some additional clamps near the point where the exhaust pipes exit out from the valance.
Does your system have those clamps?
I also the same question as GB; do you need to remove the mufflers to adjust the valves.
Thanks
PS - I'd like to see some pictures too!
(Message Edited 2/5/2003 8:47:05 PM)
RE: the above posts, I imported an earlier post I made on the CSP system on another thread today. If you've read it, disregard. Jim OKC
All,
JP and I share the same system from CSP. I saved a few bucks as I already had a set of 1.5 boxes from a system I purchased from CB Performnance.
I purchased the steel version of CSP's system, as it has stainless in some sections from mufflers back & then the actual exhaust tubes feature life long coated aluminum coated steel. I prefered going the full SS system as our fellow owner J-P did. I have seen the SS system on a show car (VW Vert) based in the mid-cities area of DFW, owner is Jack Wenk of Black Gold VW Parts. The SS system is very handsome and I bet it looks great on J-P's car. But, at the time, the extra buckolas were not in my little personal hobby acct.
As for my system? I also think it looks awesome and returns a degree of a stock or vintage look that I like to maintain. To answer your question George; Yes, you can get to the valves with the system intact. It, of course is not the wide ope shot that you get with a traditional set-up or a merged system, BUT!, but it can be accomplished without going into an exorcised child imitation while prone on the creeper.
As for extensions? JP is correct. You will need to add a couple inches (or more depending on your pref.) onto the two inch tubes that exit at the stock VW points. Me? I chose cutting back the factory ones a bit, then purchased 2" OD Stainless and we had these grafted on at almost the base point of the curve before the run straight back. Then I used some masking and paper and silver heat paint to lightly touch up the weld points. The results are great looking IMHO. Of course you could just as easily slip on bigger tubes over the stockers...... but I like the 2" size... aggresive without looking oversized.
My car is in the shop while I recover from this surgery. Seemed like a great time to get a few things done that I would be unable to accomplish until I fully heal early March. The ICTs are going off and a pair of 40IDFs are going on (Stan I'll let you know after I see if the 40's work out the way I want, ok?), I returned to a stock shifter, ala: John Leader's, except I added a short shift kit and my matching Nardi Knob. I also added BugPack's new inline thermostat for the external cooler, as the one on it was opening a bit early according to what we could determine, making for a very long warm up on cold days to get up to good heating and operating temps. (Unlike the discussions on heat problems on the other threads, I have never had heat problems with a highly built 1776 and an external oil cooler, I think that is because of the parts/build, the R&P ratio of 3:88, keeping the carbs set (Seasonally even!), using the 4 pad system that John Leader refers to for lid sealing, using a good quality synthetic oil (no leaks-no kidding), maintaining the insulation, and keeping the plugs clean/changed, plus regular timing and valve adjustments. I don't want to seem uppity here, maybe it's just good fortune, heh? But, I know whatever I'm doing, it works... even on those 100' days here in Okrahoma. I am bit nervous that the IDFs may upset this balance, but hope that properly set up they will work out fine, plus increase perf a tad, and sound cool too.)
I will call the shop and see if they can get pics of the CSP system and send this way, if not, I promise I will post some in one and a half to two weeks when I pick her back up.
Jim Ward
OKC Recovering Speedster Nut
(Message Edited 2/5/2003 9:13:37 PM)
All,
JP and I share the same system from CSP. I saved a few bucks as I already had a set of 1.5 boxes from a system I purchased from CB Performnance.
I purchased the steel version of CSP's system, as it has stainless in some sections from mufflers back & then the actual exhaust tubes feature life long coated aluminum coated steel. I prefered going the full SS system as our fellow owner J-P did. I have seen the SS system on a show car (VW Vert) based in the mid-cities area of DFW, owner is Jack Wenk of Black Gold VW Parts. The SS system is very handsome and I bet it looks great on J-P's car. But, at the time, the extra buckolas were not in my little personal hobby acct.
As for my system? I also think it looks awesome and returns a degree of a stock or vintage look that I like to maintain. To answer your question George; Yes, you can get to the valves with the system intact. It, of course is not the wide ope shot that you get with a traditional set-up or a merged system, BUT!, but it can be accomplished without going into an exorcised child imitation while prone on the creeper.
As for extensions? JP is correct. You will need to add a couple inches (or more depending on your pref.) onto the two inch tubes that exit at the stock VW points. Me? I chose cutting back the factory ones a bit, then purchased 2" OD Stainless and we had these grafted on at almost the base point of the curve before the run straight back. Then I used some masking and paper and silver heat paint to lightly touch up the weld points. The results are great looking IMHO. Of course you could just as easily slip on bigger tubes over the stockers...... but I like the 2" size... aggresive without looking oversized.
My car is in the shop while I recover from this surgery. Seemed like a great time to get a few things done that I would be unable to accomplish until I fully heal early March. The ICTs are going off and a pair of 40IDFs are going on (Stan I'll let you know after I see if the 40's work out the way I want, ok?), I returned to a stock shifter, ala: John Leader's, except I added a short shift kit and my matching Nardi Knob. I also added BugPack's new inline thermostat for the external cooler, as the one on it was opening a bit early according to what we could determine, making for a very long warm up on cold days to get up to good heating and operating temps. (Unlike the discussions on heat problems on the other threads, I have never had heat problems with a highly built 1776 and an external oil cooler, I think that is because of the parts/build, the R&P ratio of 3:88, keeping the carbs set (Seasonally even!), using the 4 pad system that John Leader refers to for lid sealing, using a good quality synthetic oil (no leaks-no kidding), maintaining the insulation, and keeping the plugs clean/changed, plus regular timing and valve adjustments. I don't want to seem uppity here, maybe it's just good fortune, heh? But, I know whatever I'm doing, it works... even on those 100' days here in Okrahoma. I am bit nervous that the IDFs may upset this balance, but hope that properly set up they will work out fine, plus increase perf a tad, and sound cool too.)
I will call the shop and see if they can get pics of the CSP system and send this way, if not, I promise I will post some in one and a half to two weeks when I pick her back up.
Jim Ward
OKC Recovering Speedster Nut
(Message Edited 2/5/2003 9:13:37 PM)
Should be getting my car back on Saturday (I hope). I'll end up with a 1 5/8 " merged header that has been cut back about 1 1/2 " so that it doesn't stick out the back (cut back to a 2 " flange opening). From there, the 2 " pipe curves to one side and runs to a Magnaflow muffler, mounted beside the value cover (muffler lies on its side in a vertical position between the value cover and the back tire). The 2 " pipe exits the muffler and runs under the back of the motor and then turns and runs under the push rod tubes on the other side and then exits straight out the back with a single 3 " stainless steel pipe. The heater boxes are 1 5/8 " and will be hollow. I'm getting two flanges installed (two bolt style), on either side of the muffler, so I can quickly unbolt the muffler and adjust the values. The CSP system,(including heater boxes) in Canada, runs about $1100 (Canadian). I'm hoping my custom system will not be more. It's hard to compare, since the CSP system is 1 1/2" and mine will be 1 5/8 ". I'm crossing my fingers and toes, because like most of you, I can only afford to do this once. I hope to take some pictures.
Ron
Ron
Jim, nice to hear from you again. I hope you get well soon. We need all the Speedster nuts on the road as much as possible. Thanks in advance for the pics when you have time, can't wait. The webers will make a big difference, I'm sure. Adios Amigo.
Ron, I think your system will sound great. A while back I saw a similar system on a racecar that was running a large displacement VW and it sounded really good! Good luck, and I can't wait to see pics.
Hi Guys,
Sorry for getting back to everyone so late, (had a business trip).
So I gues Jim and I both have the same system and I can tell you that I'm soooo pleased with the thing it made me giggle for the next two weeks. The system is only 1.5" all the way through so if you have a very big motor then perhaps this may not be the ticket for you however I'm currently running a 2110 and so far so good. My biggest complaint about exhaust systems out there is that they scrape by hanging down too low or if you get a hideaway the
exhaust system must come off to adjust the valves. I had an exhaust that scraped and that drove me nuts, I felt like I couln't enjoy the car. I also had the so called "special exhaust" from VS and that was too small and it eventually broke. Finding a good exhaust is so very difficult for these cars.
CSP unit looks like a stock speedster with the two pipes exiting just under the valance, you can get to the valves without removing the exhaust and CSP also sold me the heater boxes for the unit at the same 1.5" dia. The heater boxes are about $200 (not too bad) and the exhaust was $600 (I got the ss model without the heat risers). The most difficult thing to this exhaust is having to weld on tips and while your at the welding shop one might as well get all those clamp connections welded also.
What I can say is this...the CSP system is quality stuff that fits almost perfect (have to add tips or extensions). The system is the least pain in ass as you don't have to modify it. The sound is also very German! Got to say it was worth the money and the full two months of searching the internet to find it.
J-P
Sorry for getting back to everyone so late, (had a business trip).
So I gues Jim and I both have the same system and I can tell you that I'm soooo pleased with the thing it made me giggle for the next two weeks. The system is only 1.5" all the way through so if you have a very big motor then perhaps this may not be the ticket for you however I'm currently running a 2110 and so far so good. My biggest complaint about exhaust systems out there is that they scrape by hanging down too low or if you get a hideaway the
exhaust system must come off to adjust the valves. I had an exhaust that scraped and that drove me nuts, I felt like I couln't enjoy the car. I also had the so called "special exhaust" from VS and that was too small and it eventually broke. Finding a good exhaust is so very difficult for these cars.
CSP unit looks like a stock speedster with the two pipes exiting just under the valance, you can get to the valves without removing the exhaust and CSP also sold me the heater boxes for the unit at the same 1.5" dia. The heater boxes are about $200 (not too bad) and the exhaust was $600 (I got the ss model without the heat risers). The most difficult thing to this exhaust is having to weld on tips and while your at the welding shop one might as well get all those clamp connections welded also.
What I can say is this...the CSP system is quality stuff that fits almost perfect (have to add tips or extensions). The system is the least pain in ass as you don't have to modify it. The sound is also very German! Got to say it was worth the money and the full two months of searching the internet to find it.
J-P
A 1 1/2" system is a little too small for a performance 2,110cc engine; hope you don't have any overheating problems.
Good comment, actually today I hooked up the head temp. gauge (tested it yesterday, right on) and looks like the #3 sits at 300 and when I crank it up to 90mph the heads sit at 340 approx. I think this is OK. This is testing without any additional openings in the engine compartment at 75 deg. weather. We'll see what happens in the summer.
J-P
J-P
If you have 300 F head temperature at normal cruising speeds with 75 F ambient temperature you may have some overheating problems this summer. Good luck.
Well according to the great planes engine performance recommendations @
www.greatplainsas.com/pg55btm.html
I'm actually running 50 deg. lower than their recomendation of 350-375.
We'll see what happens this summer but so far everything is good. I may
have to take the 356 pulley off to get the heads running a little hotter.
J-P
www.greatplainsas.com/pg55btm.html
I'm actually running 50 deg. lower than their recomendation of 350-375.
We'll see what happens this summer but so far everything is good. I may
have to take the 356 pulley off to get the heads running a little hotter.
J-P
One other thing too, 1.5" piping on a 2.1 liter is actually pretty good if your not asking the engine to make power in the high rpm range. It's all a matter of cam choice and how the engine is set up. Remember that the 2.0 liter 914 used this size. Also there is no need to have piping larger than the exhaust ports on the heads. Exhaust gas velocity is a good thing.
J-P
J-P
One thing that I haven't seen anyone mention on this subject, is to make sure that the flanges between the header and the tail pipe assembly are filed or surfaced flat. On both systems I've had on the car neither were sealing properly. Exhaust leaks can cause backfiring that sounds like a lean mixture problem. Also once the flanges are flat and seal well, I've found that the copper flange gaskets work good and last threw many removals and reassemblies, if your car requires this to adjust the valves. I think they are called Copperheads or something like that.
Also I forgot to mention, It's a good idea to do your filing before you have to send your system off for ceramic coating.
Got my car back with the new exhaust on! It looks and sounds awesome. Nice loud, authoritive bark to it. It's not on the road yet, so I won't know what it sounds like, under load, for another week or so. I'll tell you one thing...custom work ain't cheap.
Ron
Ron
Here are some pictures. Would be better if the car was on a hoist.
Ron
In the last picture you can see how much the fabricator had to alter the header pipes coming to the heater boxes.
(Message Edited 2/23/2003 7:36:02 PM)
Ron
In the last picture you can see how much the fabricator had to alter the header pipes coming to the heater boxes.
(Message Edited 2/23/2003 7:36:02 PM)
Ron, it looks really nice from what I can see.
Do you have any pre-install pictures?
Thanks
Dave
(Message Edited 2/23/2003 9:47:07 PM)
Do you have any pre-install pictures?
Thanks
Dave
(Message Edited 2/23/2003 9:47:07 PM)
No pre install pictures, but I'm going to take the system off to get it ceramic coated. I'll probably take some pictures at that time.
Ron
Ron
Ron, great looking system. I wish I could hear how it sounds, I bet It sounds cool.