Buying new or used for 1st Speedster

Most folks here would recommend a slightly used, well sorted car unless you are prepared to do the sorting yourself.  I think there is one built by Alan Merklin that is for sale in CA.  Tough to do better than a used one from Alan or Troy Sloan's for your first.

Agree with Lane and would also add our forum moderator Theron, who I believe is in your general vicinity (relatively speaking. I realize that it's a big state)

>

I second that,  AND check on licensing requirements for your state. My state said that since my car (a Beck), was constructed from "assembled parts" , it was a car that was scrapped and was therefore, not allowed to be titled.  I believe that the easiest cars to title are those that are built on a VW frame, therefore being allowed to be titled as a VW.  Also, ascertain that you would be comfortable in the car that you are investigating.  I bought a Speedster because, in my younger years I had owned 356's and that this was as close as I was ever going to get  to owning a REAL 356 again...

 

I'll just weigh-in as a recent purchaser of a new VS from Kirk.  

My wife got to pick the color.  It got built according to my specification.  I drive mine here in the OC, more frequently on a "daily" basis.  Kirk registered the car and had the "plate" on it when I took it home.  I didn't have to sweat the DMV stuff.  

Kirk wanted to see my car after 800km.  So, i'm going to Hawaiian Gardens in the next couple of weekends.  If you're looking at a new VS, it's super handy to have Kirk nearby.  These are bespoke cars.  My expectation regarding cars is thus: they are mechanical and will at some point require maintenance.  I can appreciate the "sorting" because I had a few glitches that appeared shortly after I started driving, but Kirk was more than happy to service it for free (and why not, i just purchased it).  I have a mechanic in Laguna Niguel that i'm gonna go to when I really need stuff fixed.  

One more thing about the sorting. At Kirk's suggestion, i'm running a "stock" 1600.  it's all the fun you can handle, if you drive it "daily".  my car has shown itself to be reliable for what i make it do on a "daily" basis.  if by sorting you need something north of 1.6L, you need a reinforced transaxle, you need to be a part of the "arms" race that is what guys do, then by all means, be part of the "madness".  I need this car "daily" and it makes plenty of noise and I have the madness, just not as much.

"Sorting" is the process by which you work the bugs out of a hand-built car.  Even with a 1600 you can expect some issues as many are often not related to the engine.

Used:  There are on occasion nice used speedsters within your budget and in most cases, well sorted. Owning a speedster is a rolling hobby with a now and then adjustment, so it is best to have basic mechanical knowledge and you'll get the specific help you'll need here.   As a new owner the need for add on's begins !

New:  Since you are somewhat close to VS you can have the comfort of getting anything done there.   Overall, if you find a potential speedster post info here and we'll let you know what's what. perhaps one of the local speedster guys here will take a look at it in person .  

Welcome to the Madness!

I got my used Beck in September. It is 10 years old and had about 13K miles on it. From the paperwork trail you could tell it had been parked for months at a time. That created some issues like the rear brakes cylinders were rusted solid. I paid $25k and feel I got a great deal. For what its worth, my kids and I have been VW enthusiasts for years so working on my Beck is not an issue, we have the tools and the know how. I'm concerned about people buying these cars when they have no mechanical abilities. These beautiful little cars can eat you alive in maintenance costs if you can't do it yourself. 

Word to the wise

Paul

Oh yeah, the Beck you mentioned; the dealer is responsible for the title work if I'm not mistaken. If you shop around, you'll find that used Becks are usually $30 and more.

Bringing a used Beck into CA can be tricky.  IF the title was previously done as the year of replication, then it is POSSIBLE but still not easy.  We have a few agents that can assist with this specifically.  If it was titles as the year of manufacture, then there is no chance as CA will require emissions for that year.

As for the specific car, if you can provide me with a link or chassis number I can pull the information I have on the car.

You just missed a white/red that we had here (sold early last week).  That said, it went to a 16 year old girl and I suspect it'll be for sale again soon...

I have a turning 16 y.o. son... it might work.  

Ray

It's too bad you don't want a wide-body!

 

Stu in Australia owns one that is in the LA area.   He bought it from Alan, then ran into import issues in Autralia.  It's for sale, not toofar away and should be well sorted.

I'm completely taken back by all the responses thus far.  Thank you very much for your comments.  This forum is a terrific resource.  
I'm excited my wife is fully on board with this.  I have been a long term fanatic of the speedster, but often ruled it out due to its impractical nature / life got in the way.   My wife is usually not into old cars, but she is really excited about the speedster; to the point of tagging ones she likes on Pinterest (a huge step).  But there are a few challenges involved.  As much as I love Troy's Outlaw, wifey is not a huge fan of the outlaw appearance.  I'm sure there's a perfect person for his speedster, if it's not sold already.  We actually met Theron and looked at the speedster he has. He is a terrific resource and fountain of knowledge.  And his car was quite amazing that he'll have available.  But, as I mentioned, there are a few challenges to getting a car that both wifey and I agree upon.  And that's cool.  I'm sure there's a car out there for us, or we'll have one built.  
As a newbie using the car for a nice day cruise, is there anything I should look for (mechanically) in a speedster, both new or used?  When I spec'd a speedster from Vintage, I included the 1915cc engine, external oil cooler & fan and external oil filter.  Is all this overkill for cruising?  

The temperatures in the Bay Area can change dramatically within a few miles.  SF remains relatively moderate, with temps around 50-70 degrees all year.  The coastline is roughly the same.  Where we live in the East Bay shares a similar climate to Wine Country and the Central Valley; temps can climb upwards to 105 degrees on a hot summer day and as low as 40 degrees on the coldest winter day.  I don't believe we will have the need to drive the car in either one of those extreme situations.  Our typical summers are usually 90 degree highs.

I used to own a '69 Mercedes with the 6 cyl. and loved cruising in that car.  It's 0-60 time could be measured with a sun dial.  
Thanks again for all your comments; I have found them to be most helpful.

-Kevin

Kevin,
You definitely do not need an external oil cooler and fan on a 1915cc engine.  If anything your problem with short drives in our climate is going to be getting the engine up to temperature so you can use the heater.

With all the rain we have been getting, I still haven't put the 500 miles on the VS I have so I can call it sorted.  I've tightened up several things, but still need a few more available days to drive it.  Maybe in a couple weeks. If anyone is interested, you can see it at www.DrivenToys.com

-=theron

Having owned 35 Vintage (mostly) and JPS Speedsters, most of them with 1915cc engines, I don't completely agree with Theron on the need for an external oil cooler.  It remains a mystery to me as to why, but some of them need it and some don't, even on what appear to be identically configured cars.

It's a relatively cheap upgrade, but the insurance is we'll worth it in the long run.  Find somewhere else to cut costs.

 

Kevin, if you're committed to the idea of a Speedster, and if your wrenching skills are modest, now might be a good time to find a competent air-cooled VW mechanic, whether you buy new or used.

If you find a used car you like, you'll need a mechanic - to check the car out before you buy and to keep it maintained afterwards.

Ironically though, you'll need to find a mechanic even if you buy new (especially a VS). You're too far from Kirk to drive or ship the car back to him for any sorting, so you'll be working with a local mechanic on any issues and getting reimbursed from VS. And as with a used car, you'll need the mechanic to help with regular maintenance after the sale anyway.

If you start the search for a good mechanic now, he can advise you on what to look for in a solid used car, and if you decide to go new, he can help you spec the build and maybe even work with Kirk on making sure you get a build that's right for you.

Luckily, you're in one of the best places in the country to find competent mechanics who still work on air-cooled VW's (the ones with some grey hair are usually the best). If you haven't already, seek out the local VW community for leads. If you spot a VW that looks and sounds good - on the street or at a Cars and Coffee - ask the owner where he goes for help.

As someone who bought a new VS in 2013, my biggest regret is not getting more involved in the build process - especially in choosing an engine and transaxle.

If you'd like to chat about this further, send me a PM.

 

- Mitch

I'd at least get the case drilled and tapped for a full flow oil filter.  The drilling and tapping are difficult to do once the car is built and installed.  An oil cooler and electric fan are easily added once the Madness sets in. That can't add but $125.  I'd also request other than a stock cam (just a mild one), and upgrade the heads to whatever you can afford and get dual Empi EPC/Weber ICT dual carbs (not a single carb) and a ceramic coated Tri-Mill carb.  A 1915 with stock components can be a slug.  All that might add $600-800 but well worth it down the road.  

What Mitch said x 2.  If you don't maintain it yourself you have to have someone who is competent do it for you. If you don't, your Speedster ownership will be brief and painful.  

After a few expensive experiences I decided to learn to do it myself, with much help from the wizards on this forum.  

You've come to the right place.  Happy hunting.

$25k should get you a nice car.

People who buy these fall into two broad categories:

1. Madness (i.e. people who love them and need them and drive them and tinker and etc.)

2. Disappointed (i.e. people who love the idea of the Speedster and can totally envision themselves buzzing along in wine country with everyone checking them out and giving the thumbs-up, but who don't like the reality of the Speedster: uncomfortable seats, unconventional handling, engine noise, too much heat, not enough heat, oil leaks, clutch cable broke, hubcaps fell off and etc.--wtf?)

Thing is, everyone who buys one is totally convinced that they're a 1-type person at the start, but most are not. Hence all these low-mile creampuffs on sale for less than $25,000....

If you build it, it will cost $30k, maybe just a bit under. If you build it and find out next year that you are actually a 2-type of person (or that wifey is), your year-old, 600-mile VS will be worth about $23k. See what I'm getting at? 

A used car may (or may not) be better sorted but, regardless of the level of "sorting" needed, you will risk more with a new build. About a 10-day Alaska cruise-worth's.

1915...What I usually go with....  A full flow case, and if possible get balanced counterweight crank rods and flywheel as a unit, name brand piston and jug set, 110 camshaft, solid rocker shafts, decent mild heads, dual carbs, chrome moly push rods    (no valve adjustments) remote oil filter, electric rotary fuel pump with fuel pressure regulator regulator, oil breather box and a good flowing exhaust. Depending on the climate a external oil cooler with fan. 

WOLFGANG posted:

I'd at least get the case drilled and tapped for a full flow oil filter.  The drilling and tapping are difficult to do once the car is built and installed.  An oil cooler and electric fan are easily added once the Madness sets in. That can't add but $125.  I'd also request other than a stock cam (just a mild one), and upgrade the heads to whatever you can afford and get dual Empi EPC/Weber ICT dual carbs (not a single carb) and a ceramic coated Tri-Mill carb.  A 1915 with stock components can be a slug.  All that might add $600-800 but well worth it down the road.  

Make that a ceramic coated Tri-mil exhaust plus everything else Greg said.

Sounds like Ed has been around the barn.  I know he's been around the race course.  ;-)  Most here are Type 1s, pretty sure.  Type 2s are either quick re-sellers,  or have the scratch to have a mechanic who can chase what needs to be chased and keeps the hot little wine-country Speedster ready for those fine sunny afternoons.

And pay attention to Merklin, aka Dr. Clock,  he knows of what he speaks.

X 2 what Lane, Alan, Paul, Mitch and Ed (have I missed anyone?) said. These are NOT modern cars in any sense of the word, the underpinnings having been developed when automotive technology was still in it's infancy. A Speedster will not ride or feel like a new Miata or Nissan Z convertible and will require more maintenance than what you're driving now.  A lot of successful long term Speedster owners do their own upkeep and repair (some not having picked up a wrench before Speedster ownership but have learned to tinker and have come to recognize the sounds their car makes and how it feels when it's being pushed past it's limits), and have learned to adjust valves and timing, change oil and spark plugs, replacing clutch and gas pedal cables, and even (in extreme cases) rebuilding their engine and removing and re-installing the transaxle (after it being rebuilt). Driving one of these cars takes you back to a different era, when it was called motoring and you were more in touch with the road and your surroundings. We're not trying to scare you off; on the contrary, if you enter this knowing what to expect the odds are better you'll stay a while (and maybe even fully join the Madness that's luring you in as we speak).  

That said- a 1915cc engine can be outfitted several different ways, each developing different power-

1- With stock dual port heads, Engle W100 or 110 camshaft (or anything similar) and the 34ICT carbs the engine will rev to 5,000 or 5500 rpm, make 85 or 90 hp (depending on which cam is chosen), be easy to drive and only require stock maintenance. The ICT's are about at their limit here.

2- With ported (stock 35x32mm valve) dual port heads, W110 or 120 cam and 40mm kadron carbs the engine will rev to 5500 or 6,000rpm and make 95 or 100 (or a little more) hp (again, depening on the cam). It will still be easy to drive with only stock maintenance, but (especially with the W120) may not idle quite as smoothly as you'd like. In any of these scenarios (1 or 2) a pair of 40mm Webers or Dellorto's will make the engine idle smoother than stock, may deliver a couple/few more horsepower and may even give a hundred or so more rpms' (along with even more power!  think really evil laugh here) at the top end.

You could use some ported big valve (40x35mm) heads with either cam in choice 2 for even more upper midrange and top end power (another 15? 20? hp) with another hundred (or 2) revs added to the top end. Off idle and lower midrange won't be quite as crisp, so you'll be shifting just a little bit more, and mileage won't be quite what it would be with the smaller valve heads (not that that's a huge issue, as these are play cars, but it's a point I think should be brought up). Up until this point it should be a truly "drive anywhere, anytime" combo.

You could even upgrade to the W125 camshaft for even more upper end power (now it'll rev to 6500 or more! let's here the evil laugh again!) but now the engine's getting a little high strung, probably requiring more maintenance and tinkering along the way. Better off at this point make it a 2 liter or larger with a longer stroke crankshaft- with the W120 (and maybe some 1.25 rockers) you'll get all that power and more in the upper end while the low end torque of the bigger displacement will make the car that much more fun to drive around town!   (yeah, you know what these are!)

I haven't mentioned compression ratios for any of the above, as it would be custom tailored for any of the exact combos. And all these combos need a full flow filter and  extra oil capacity (1 1/2 quart deep sump) to survive. 

Hope this helps. Al

edsnova posted:

$25k should get you a nice car.

People who buy these fall into two broad categories:

1. Madness (i.e. people who love them and need them and drive them and tinker and etc.)

2. Disappointed (i.e. people who love the idea of the Speedster and can totally envision themselves buzzing along in wine country with everyone checking them out and giving the thumbs-up, but who don't like the reality of the Speedster: uncomfortable seats, unconventional handling, engine noise, too much heat, not enough heat, oil leaks, clutch cable broke, hubcaps fell off and etc.--wtf?)

Thing is, everyone who buys one is totally convinced that they're a 1-type person at the start, but most are not. Hence all these low-mile creampuffs on sale for less than $25,000....

If you build it, it will cost $30k, maybe just a bit under. If you build it and find out next year that you are actually a 2-type of person (or that wifey is), your year-old, 600-mile VS will be worth about $23k. See what I'm getting at? 

A used car may (or may not) be better sorted but, regardless of the level of "sorting" needed, you will risk more with a new build. About a 10-day Alaska cruise-worth's.

This should be made a sticky, and put at the top of the "Newby" heading for all time.

In 2015, Jeanie and I went to Europe for our 30th anniversary-- Dubrovnik, Rome, Florence, and Venice. It was 3 weeks. We stayed in fantastic apartments, ate wonderful food, and drank wonderful wine. We and had a most excellent time. I had about as much in the vacation as I have in my 2276... which is the 4th permutation of Type 1 engine I've had back there. Putting it in that light highlights how stupid-expensive air-cooled cars can be.

The truth is, if any of us had even a lick of sense, we'd all be a "Type 2" person. My ever-practical parents (both of whom are in their 70s), cannot, for the life of them, understand how anybody could pour money and time into something so... silly.

The truth is: it's not a car, really-- it's more of a vague idea of one. As Paul Ellis said, "I'm concerned about people buying these cars when they have no mechanical abilities. These beautiful little cars can eat you alive in maintenance costs if you can't do it yourself."  Beyond that, they can leave you stranded and angry.

Thing is, everyone who buys one is totally convinced that they're a 1-type person at the start, but most are not. Hence all these low-mile creampuffs on sale for less than $25,000.... Words to heed. Proceed with caution.

You might be that guy. However, you have no idea if you are are or not until you jump in. You have no idea what you want in the way of options, so I think all the advice is a bit premature. Buy a "low-mile creampuff", and find a shop who can work on it. Drive it for a year or so to see if this is a chronic illness or a 24 hr bug. If it's terminal, spec the car you want once you know what you are doing. Going to a get-together with other (differently equipped) cars will help you make an informed decision if/when the time comes to order. 

I wish you well. Forewarned is forearmed. 

Please don't feel like we're all trying to scare you off - far from it.  We hate it when someone joins us loaded with enthusiasm only to have a few problems early on and disappear in a cloud of disappointment in less than a year.  If you enter into our little piece of the Twilight Zone with your eyes wide open and the skills and willingness to do some occasional tinkering, you can have the time of your life.  The cars are fun (for the right person) and the people even more so.

My car has forced me to relearn and re-apply old skills and abilities. That has been good, and personally rewarding to a guy in his sixties.

I have both a cheap and a stubborn streak.

On top of that, I live a continent away from the manufacturer of my car in a place that you think would have a bunch of qualified old wrenchers anxious to take my money. 

Said wrenchers are mostly absent. Must not like the heat, humidity and occasional alligator.

Upside is I have some spare time, so I can focus on that relearning and re-applying the aforementioned skills to keep the car functioning. 

Best of all, this site exists to hold my interest, provide direction and advice, as well as offer friendship and humor with the opportunity, on occasion, to help someone out or slam someone trying to hose our little community.

Speedster ownership, at least of those cars on the lower end of the quality scale is not for the feint of heart, those without some cash set aside for the inevitable mechanical malfunction, or those discussed elsewhere in this thread.

Heed the wisdom of the guys above me in this thread. 

 

Bob, you've described my life in another neighborhood, almost exactly.  We're scattered all over world and are united by a madness that makes no real sense. 

Mr. Spock would say that it's illogical.  But ,if it's for you, and you get hooked, it's lots of fun. It ain't always as easy as some of these guys make it look, but totally worth it , if only to meet some of the people who are also infected.

We hate to see someone get into this and find out they aren't having fun.

Drive a few and find a good aircooled mechanic before you part with any cash.

Full Disclosure (for those unaware): I don't now and never have owned a Speedster. Mine's a bogus TD. They cost about 1/8th of a Speedster (to start...she's about 1/3 a Speedster now, in terms of money spent). I bought mine to play with: tinkering was always going to be as important as cruising, apple-picking, "racing" & just looking cool. Having rebuilt an old Chevy decades before (engine, suspension, another engine, interior, body), I had great confidence in my knowledge and ability. I have been chastened, but I persevere. The car takes me away from my work, which otherwise could take over my whole life and leave me completely depressed and neurotic. The hours in the garage, fixing things that broke, or that might break, or that aren't broke and won't break, are pure therapy: challenges and setbacks and small victories. The kind of thing that buoys the spirit.

The street notoriety is just a bonus.(HT East Coast Bruce)

Bottom line: I highly recommend this sort of activity to anyone who wants to have a good day. Silliness is underrated.

[everyone] Thank you for your honesty. This would not be my first classic car; but I appreciate everyone looking out for a newbie speedster owner.  I'm sure it gets redundant watching newbies hop on here with all this enthusiasm and sell the car in 6 months. 

I received a lot of great feedback. I look forward to keeping everyone in the loop of our future purchase. 

If any of you know of a good (non-flared / non-outlaw) buy, I'd be all ears. 

 

Thanks again,

Kevin

We're just looking out for you, Kevin.

" I'm sure it gets redundant watching newbies hop on here with all this enthusiasm and sell the car in 6 months."

You are right. It does. Al

It would be better if you were all wallet instead of all ears. The right one will come along, stay tuned!

I wasn't supposed to buy one until I retire at the end of September. I was just "window shopping" and someone on here said I shouldn't wait because they are going up in price. That was all I needed to hear to justify the purchase. Plus, I found the right car for the right price. It's only been a few months and a few bugs worked out but I have no regrets. I'm constantly asking my wife if she needs anything from the store. Any excuse to drive it.

Good for you Paul!!

ALB posted:

We're just looking out for you, Kevin.

" I'm sure it gets redundant watching newbies hop on here with all this enthusiasm and sell the car in 6 months."

You are right. It does. Al

Analiese was fun but she kept losing her hubcaps and that was her deal breaker. I miss her. 

edsnova posted:

... The car takes me away from my work, which otherwise could take over my whole life and leave me completely depressed and neurotic. The hours in the garage, fixing things that broke, or that might break, or that aren't broke and won't break, are pure therapy: challenges and setbacks and small victories. The kind of thing that buoys the spirit.

The street notoriety is just a bonus.

As different as we are in some ways, Ed, sometimes I'm pretty sure were two sides of the same coin.

That post is another home run, especially the part I lifted from the whole. 

^ These cars are certainly a 4-wheel decompression chamber. 

I sometimes find myself going out to the shop to break something, just so I'll have something to fix.....

 

I don't intentionally break stuff I'm building but I do sometimes repeat the process to put a better twist on it.

As far as Miss Analiese' I believe her silicone acted up :~)

"I don't intentionally break stuff I'm building, but I do sometimes repeat the process to put a better twist on it."

Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Nowhere, USA posted:

edsnova posted:

$25k should get you a nice car.

People who buy these fall into two broad categories:

1. Madness (i.e. people who love them and need them and drive them and tinker and etc.)

2. Disappointed (i.e. people who love the idea of the Speedster and can totally envision themselves buzzing along in wine country with everyone checking them out and giving the thumbs-up, but who don't like the reality of the Speedster: uncomfortable seats, unconventional handling, engine noise, too much heat, not enough heat, oil leaks, clutch cable broke, hubcaps fell off and etc.--wtf?)

Thing is, everyone who buys one is totally convinced that they're a 1-type person at the start, but most are not. Hence all these low-mile creampuffs on sale for less than $25,000....

If you build it, it will cost $30k, maybe just a bit under. If you build it and find out next year that you are actually a 2-type of person (or that wifey is), your year-old, 600-mile VS will be worth about $23k. See what I'm getting at? 

A used car may (or may not) be better sorted but, regardless of the level of "sorting" needed, you will risk more with a new build. About a 10-day Alaska cruise-worth's.

This should be made a sticky, and put at the top of the "Newby" heading for all time.

In 2015, Jeanie and I went to Europe for our 30th anniversary-- Dubrovnik, Rome, Florence, and Venice. It was 3 weeks. We stayed in fantastic apartments, ate wonderful food, and drank wonderful wine. We and had a most excellent time. I had about as much in the vacation as I have in my 2276... which is the 4th permutation of Type 1 engine I've had back there. Putting it in that light highlights how stupid-expensive air-cooled cars can be.

The truth is, if any of us had even a lick of sense, we'd all be a "Type 2" person. My ever-practical parents (both of whom are in their 70s), cannot, for the life of them, understand how anybody could pour money and time into something so... silly.

The truth is: it's not a car, really-- it's more of a vague idea of one. As Paul Ellis said, "I'm concerned about people buying these cars when they have no mechanical abilities. These beautiful little cars can eat you alive in maintenance costs if you can't do it yourself."  Beyond that, they can leave you stranded and angry.

Thing is, everyone who buys one is totally convinced that they're a 1-type person at the start, but most are not. Hence all these low-mile creampuffs on sale for less than $25,000.... Words to heed. Proceed with caution.

You might be that guy. However, you have no idea if you are are or not until you jump in. You have no idea what you want in the way of options, so I think all the advice is a bit premature. Buy a "low-mile creampuff", and find a shop who can work on it. Drive it for a year or so to see if this is a chronic illness or a 24 hr bug. If it's terminal, spec the car you want once you know what you are doing. Going to a get-together with other (differently equipped) cars will help you make an informed decision if/when the time comes to order. 

I wish you well. Forewarned is forearmed. 

He's right. For what I put into my CB 2110, I could have built a top shelf 383 small block Chevy with 550 hp.  I new what I was getting into so it wasn't a big surprise and I really like driving the Speedster and it does have a lot of power.