California Registration - Myths and Facts...???

Just got my CA plates on the speedy. Talk about an anti-climax - all that worrying and anxiety!! For NOTHING!!
Nearly didn't buy the car as I had read all the horror stories about the 500 'special construct' permits each year etc etc etc... knowing me I probably interpreted them incorrectly as applying to an already registered out of state vehicle instead of a new build unregistered vehicle.
I went down to my local DMV at Laguna Hills and turned up with the Kentucky title, the CA title transfer paper and Voila!! They inspected it and checked the VIN against the title and OK'd the way the VIN was mounted (Metal plate w/rivets on left hand drivers post.) - done. Paid my tax (did not cheat as it REALLY did not appear worth the potential risk) and am now putting my new plates on.
My baby is registered as a 1975 porsche - I would be happy with anything that made it smog exempt and legal.

Now for the fun part....cruising the coast.

Is it a VW chassis? If so, its curious that they registered it as a Porsche.

Yep..it is a 1975 VW pan. Titled (right on the Kentucky title as one!!) and yet the vehicle examiner wrote down that the make was a Porsche. Who can guess the way the mind(?) of a Public servant (read DMV employee) works. He had a 69 bug he loved so maybe he cut me some slack???

Wouldn't it be better to be registered as a VW for insurance and such?
Scott

I've got a VW VIN.
Depends on how you have it insured, I suppose. USAA (a regular comprehensive policy with "crazy-uninsured-driver-hit-me-while-driving-drunk-and-sent-me-to-the-hospital-and-I'm-in-a-coma" medical coverage) will give me what I can show them I have in materiel receipts, for plus the documented (logged) build time in terms of shop-hours needed for a replacement.
Or I can buy a '61 coupe. And paint it green.

Here it is w/the new tags. we will find out about the insurance tomorrow - I am just glad it was so easy.

Grant - your VW VIN may not pass through the CA DMV Title process as a "1975 Porsche." Since all manufacturers' VINs are unique, the DMV honchos in Sacramento might notice your VIN with an incorrect designation (Porsche) and start asking questions.
However, for your sake - I really hope they don't!

John -- a short hijack -- first chance I've had to say "Great work!" on the Registry site. Made for some very entertaining reading a few weeks ago. Any updates?

Grant,
I also wanted to compliment you on your car. I'm using your pic as my background on my computer. I'm hoping the car I just purchased looks that good once I remove the rollbar, add the bumpers trim and polish her up.
Scott

John Leader: that's not a dmv issue plate is it? I love it, and if it is, I hate you.:)

Having a '69 VW registration and a '57 Porsche is kind of the best of both worlds.

John: in case my previous post made no sense, I meant that "58GT" plate. That is too cool.
Where and how did you get that?

Thomas - the vintage CA license plate on my Speedster is technically illegal, but let me explain...
When my car was being built I ordered the Environmental Plate "58GT," which was available, from the CA DMV. I received the blue-on-white CA plate with the month and registration stickers.
At the same time I ordered a 1956-era black-on-yellow CA plate "58GT" from http://www.licenseplates.tv/
When it arrived, I put the stickers on the "dog ears" (from the Pomona Swap Meet) so as not to mar the vintage plate. Later I found a source on the internet for a CA "1958 renewal sticker," which made the plate look that much more correct.
I carry the legitimate blue-on-white plates in the trunk, but I've not needed them. I was stopped for speeding and the officer didn't even question the plate - because when he ran my "58GT" through his computer, it came up with the proper VIN.
So, while my plate is technically illegal - so far it's working fine.

Very clever John. I did something similar with the plate shown in my photo. It is my official issue number on a reproduction plate. But you've given me an idea for customizing it.

Guys,
I bought my VS used, it had Louisiana registration as a '57 Porsche. I took it to the CA DMV, the guy inspected it and titled it a "57 Porsche". I had no problem getting insurance as a replica.

I also went through the process to use vintage plates with dog ears as I had '56 plates with a '57 sticker.

I had no issues and all my paperwork is legal. I never had to even answer a question as to wheter the car was real.

I wanted to run authentic 1956 license plates on my 2004 Thunder Ranch Speedster and found a 1956 "pan and registration" and the DMV has it registered as such. But when it came time to mount the plate on the car I couldn't stand the thought of ruining the clean lines of the rear so I have the plate mounted under the car. When I need to I press a switch under the dash and an electric motor lowers the plate for any legal authority needing to see it. Since March 2004 I have lowered the plate only two or three times while driving and have been stopped only twice and each time the officer let me off. I hate license plates!!

You may want to read this:

http://www.spyderclub.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=32611&highlight=#32611

Larry,

There seems to be (for whatever reason), a sizable group of people who believe that getting away with something means that it must be OK.

If a bureaucrat in the state capital stamps the title "approved" without due diligence, it doesn't make the application less fraudulent.

Most states have some provision to legally register a replica to avoid emissions testing. IL does, CA does. Registering using the pan VIN may not get you busted today, or tomorrow, or next year- but it IS asking for trouble, the first time you catch a patrol officer on a bad day.

His bad day could easily become your bad year. Why risk it?

Stan,

It sure got quiet here in a hurry???

Yes it did, Larry. Ignorance may be bliss- but its no defense, as I'm sure you are aware.

"His bad day could easily become your bad year . . . "

FU%KIN" GREAT ! !

And THAT'S why everyone hates cops ! ! !

Don't get me started . . . . .

And the beat goes on.....I think we get one of these every 6 months or so?? Stan, you must have a list of favorites for these occasions just to make those links....or you have a mind like a steel trap.

...one time at band camp, I brought this tuba that was SOOOO NOT regulation specs, but the bandmaster thought it was OK, then I was like, COOL, and he was like, whatever, so I ...

...as much as I would like to run with cool "original-looking plates"...

With my history of cops pulling me over (see past threads), that's all I need is a LEGITIMATE REASON for them to pull me over and kick the holy crap out of me!..."where'd ya get them plates, BOY?"

Peace- Out!

I don't hate cops.

Some aren't so good, but I have been fortunate to always meet the good ones. Heck, a couple of times I passed them on a two lane going in opposite directions (I was going WAY over the limit) and pulled over before they got turned around.

TC,
It's not the cops you should hate, (does that mean you hate me?? I retired after spending 34 years doing the job)

Seems like some people get pissed when you provide them with the correct information. You don't have to like the information but you should at least accept that it's designed to keep you out of trouble.

Reality is, you don't live in CA so this doesn't really affect you.

Those that live in CA and think they're legal need to know the consequences should an alert DMV employee or someone from the Attorney General's office starts an investigation (which has been done on a regualar basis).

Also, people in CA need to know what will happen should an alert CHP, Sheriff or City Policeman recognize that their car is illegally registered. (arrest is possible for a felony and the car will be impounded pending a court case)

Personally, I don't give a damn if CA residents register their replica cars in violation of the law. All I was trying to do was to educate those that don't know the law.

I think it needs revamping but I don't write the laws.

I've always been intrigued with the registration/plate deal? I live in Delaware and when I registered my speedster the DMV guys heads were spinning! I told them to the best of my knowledge it was a 1957 Porsche Speedster replica built in 1983 on a 1971 vw chassis. Long story short it ended up being registered as a 1957 Porsche (assembled vehicle). They, without me asking, informed me that I could not register it as a "classic car" because it is not in its orignal state - OK fine, whatever. I don't understand this apparent desire to have replicas tagged or registered as anything other than what they are? In Delaware there is a strange little phenominum about the lower the number plate the more valuable it is. The state govenor gets the #1 on his car (I think?). Anyway, people here will pay tens of thousands of dollars for a 2 or 3 digit tag and thousands for a 4 digit tag and for what!? To have their car registered. I just laugh when people here in my home state talk about it. To me a plate has always just been something to ID your car. I guess I'm lucky living here because we only have to have plates on the rear of the car we can put anything on the front. Mickey

You guys need to lighten up...I dont think anyone thinks ignorance is bliss or that there isnt some risk.

I think folks that were looking for feedback and advice on what is possible. Thanks to all the legal beagles for their input..geez

Specifically for CALIFORNIA owners.

I'll say this one more time, if you have a pan based car (Speedster, dune buggy, Lamborgini, etc,) and it is registered in CALIFORNIA as a xxYR Volkswagen, it is ilegally/unlawfully registered. It should be registered as a Special Construction (SPCN). It does not have to have one of the "magic" SB100 numbers to do that, "all" (basically) it needs to do is pass smog for the year of the engine.

So if you have a speedster registered as a '64 VW and have all the smog required in '64 and an engine that could pass for a '64, you can be legal with out much trouble. ETC....

That is from the second highest person in the FRAUD Department at CA. DMV. I don't car what your builder tells you or promises you if it is "you can register this as a xx VW" it is either misinformation or misdirection. IT MUST BE REGISTERED AS A SPCN!

It is the same for frame cars such as mine too. I was registered ilegally and received a letter in the mail from DMV Fradulant Registration.

Personally, I don't care how you are registered and DMV may never catch you. I doubt they spend much time on VW based cars, I do know they have a thing for Cobras. Based upon my "experience" and discussion with the DMV person, do not have a photo/article placed in a magazine, and other public venues. They have been known to prowl/lurk/ and even contribute to specialty car forums and boards. Don't believe, ask the Cobra guys or the Spyder guys, right Larry?

You know, you will probably never be caught. I was, and if you are, don't hate the DMV, you broke the law. Oh yeah, and if you under valued your car when you registered it, saying "it's a 64 VW Bug, paid $500 for it." When in reality, the car is a Beautiful 2004 X-brand Speedster that was really $30,000, prepare to pay all back taxes and license fees + the penalties that compound.

SEMA is working with other hobbists to get a better understanding and create a more fair and robust system in all states for "kit" and specially constructed vehicles. Kit Car mag just had an article about it.

Another comment made by the "Fraud Lady" was "don't count on the DMV employee knowing what they are doing." "They usually don't know one car from another and some do not even go out and look at the car they are registering." "It is the owner/registrant of the car that has to know the laws, and if a mistake is made, the registrant/owner is responsible"

So if you go out with transfer papers from another state that says 57 Porsche and it gets registered that way, and it is not a 57 Porsche, it is on the owner.

I really do not want to scare anyone, only inform, but I was caught and shown the error of my ways because I had an initial registration from New York.

Good luck and as Enco fuel used to say "Happy motoring"

Don't be this guy!

So Dale, once you had successfully transferred registration of the "57 Porsche" from NY to CA, and were happily sporting around in your new California plates, what is it that caused you to become . . . . caught?

Mark

Does anyone know what to do in the case of this - I bought my car for $8500. When I registered it that is what I told the DMV and I paid taxes on $8500. And since I had to have insurance to register my car I told the insurance company the amount the car was worth was $8500. Since I bought the car I have put about $5000 into it. What now?

Mark,

I had a NY title for a 58 speedster and used it to register my car. I ask a hot rod pal if that was legal and he said "it's a grey area, hot rodders do it all the time" So, I did to.

The reason I did it this was was to get the origianl CA black on yellow plates, and to avoid smogging the car. The DMV took my money, did not need to see the car, and I was registered. Yeee Hawww.

I had gone on a tour with 14 Cobras and got to know a few of them pretty well. At Knotts that year, I heard some stories about using NY titles to reg. CA cars and how the DMV was coming down on them. It actually started when a Yolo County Sherriff Deputy got caught mis-representing his Cobra. An investigation insued and some time later, the CHP, reps from the State Attorney's General and other law enforcement showed up at 14 Cobra owners homes, guns drawn and in Flak jackets. (it may have been less than 14, but not many). I heard about this, read an article in the local news paper and decided to do the SB100 thing. I had a number and was finishing the paperwork when I got the letter from the DMV Fraudulat Registration Department.

In that letter, I was asked to send my title and plates to the Fraud Dept. and if I continued to drive the car could be impounded and I arrested for fraud.

I called and talked to Mrs Tremble, second in the dept. and asked if we could meet and discuss the issues. She was friendly and very informitive. She has since been promoted to a different dept. Anyway, she was very understanding, said she understands the problems, but said the dept does not make the laws, but is charged with the inforcement of the law. When I asked how they caught me, ( I figured that she knew I was doing the SB100 thing, I was not trying to skirt the law) and she said "I can't tell you, but, we do check out of state registrations, look at magazines, and then she commented "your car is very beautiful", and said they sometimes look at forums and boards" and actually mentioned a few. (none relating to spyders or speedsters)

I told her I had lots of friends with similar cars, some registerd as VWs and she then told me what I have previously posted.

It is a very busy department and there is more "fraud" going on than our little area, such as Boyd Coddington, that they may never get to the VW "kit car" scene.

But that doesn't make it legal.

Mickey, as far as I know, if you paid 8500 and paid taxes on 8500 then the DMV has nothing to zing you for. However, if you registered the car as mentioned throughout this thread, then stay low. If I were you, I'd contact my insurance company and raise the declared value to include the additional 5,000. All the CA DMV wants is their share of the taxes on the amount you paid for the car, not what you've dumped into fixing it up.

This thread always seems to raise the sh&%T - and I am not sure why.
I followed ALL the rules the DMV put out. I took in a Kentucky registration as a 1975 VW and I took the car and title to the DMV. THEY examined it - physically - and I answered ALL the questions on the form that THEY gave me, and honestly. I then paid the full tax owed on my full actual purchase price. If this is not enough then I have a great attorney and I guarantee that the fraud squad are going to lose. and you know what - I look forward to it - I loove beating any gov't entity.

hey grant
right onnnnnnnnn
i agree with u

Grant, Gerd, et al-

There is no benefit to Larry, Dale, or me in pointing out what the law says. I'm not a cop, lawyer, or judge (nor do I play one on TV). I'm just a refrigeration pipefitter, but I've seen the inside of every traffic court in a five county radius. When I fight authority, authority always wins (in the words of John Mellencamp). People talking about felony fraud, impounding cars, and other neat stuff, made me actually READ the law in my state, and get a bit nervous. My Intermeccanica is legally registered as an Intermeccanica- rather than a VW like my CMC was, or a '58 Porsche like my JPS was. There were hoops to jump through, and I held the hand of the (completely ignorant) Sec. of State worker while she filled out the appropriate paper work, and called the proper people.

You want to fight the CA state govt. Gestapo? Knock yourselves out.

"It actually started when a Yolo County Sheriff Deputy got caught mis-representing his Cobra."

What really got the ball rolling was when this was under investigation, California discovered that one Titles Unlimited of Alabama, a very lucrative title registration company ran by then owner Richard C. Weaver, was making an unbelievable amount of money on issuing titles based on what a customer would state on a notarized Titles Unlimited paperwork hence, Titles Unlimited was a agent for the customer and operated within the law in the State of Alabama that allowed for registrations to be issued based on an applicants sworn statements for lost titles older vehicles.
It was reported that Titles Unlimited did a huge based California business and that the tax division got a case of the ass when they tallied up their lost MV tax income based on 100's of California Cobra's understating there values. I believe one in particular was the former California Yolo County Sheriff Deputy stating $14k on a $37k Cobra. Hence Titles Unlimited / Mr. Weaver were indicted and found guilty in California. Currently Titles Unlimited is out of business.
We have no idea as to who may lurk here on this site as well as other related sites, it would be in the best interest to let a sleeping dog lie.
_______________________________________________________
Disclaimer:
This is strictly hear say and by no means intentioned to defame any previously mentioned company or individual named herein.

Good story Stan. Thanks!

Mark

...man was I WRONG (what are the odds?)! I thought John Mellencamp was singing..."I Fought the Lawn and the Lawn Won".

After considering all the expert advise, I am giving up all hope of registering my new Weinermobile in California with personal plates "MUSBDIK".

Peace - Out!