Calling six-cylinder geniuses to a Mensa meeting ...

Uh, and since my dunce-cap-wearing head won't be attending that meeting, who knows where I can come up with an exhaust hoobeydo for the new engine? Can y'all form a committee or something and lemme know?
It's the same one I've been prattling on about in the 'prospective powerplant' thread ... but I really, really don't want to have to make a set of pipes for it myself. I'd like to find a box in my driveway, so to speak.

Leads who won't rob me would be appreciated. I'll be over here in the corner with my nose in a 'Hot VWs' until then ...

Cory - I may have one you can HAVE. Its an old pre-cat system, think we yarded it off a 2.2, it would probably work with yours. I recall the heat exchangers still being on it. Give me a couple of days to find it in storage and I'll let you know.

Nice new beautiful stuff is available $$$$. For used try this:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/index.php?s=83557c2b93e98b2948f05215b633a632

Steve wound up making ours from scratch - nothing commercially available would work. Also **Check w/Henry @ IM**

angela (I'm like totally NOT mensa material...)

I'm very interested; no rush. I won't be putting the 2.0 in until the spring of 2007, the way things are looking now.
Thanks for looking -- I'd like to know what to look around for on Pelican and such if that one doesn't work.
Cory (probable IQ of 12.75, so -- like -- you've totally got me beat!)

Here's one on ebay that looks new for $25. It is mismarked as a 914 exhaust BUT it is really for a 911. I'm looking for a 914 one - of course for a TIV conversion into a Speedster.

Item # 110024012030

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/65-72-porsche-914-ANSA-sport-exhaust_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34203QQihZ001QQitemZ110024012030QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

You got oval ports, Wolf? I'm about ready to make my TIV pipe set; I could clone it for you ... I have bus heads ... straight down ...

Meanwhile, thanks for the lead. I just e-mailed the guy to ask if he had the pipes, too. Geez, that would save me some work. And $25 for starters with three days to go bears watching.
Will stock '65-72 headders work?
(I'm sure the engine donor knows this stuff, but he's duking it out with the late-stage cancer and I don't want to ask him 10,000 questions. He's getting pretty frail.)

Cory - the headers you mentioned will work. The ansa exhaust "should" bolt right up - we put one on a 68 911 and it was a bolt up. Loud as heck!

Further, if you run into other headers cheap, all the air cooled 911's will take the same headers (but you don't need O2 sensor bungs obviously). Newer they are, the bigger they are to reflect the larger displacement. These motors (as those you are more familiar with) are very sensitive to header size. Stay small with your displacement for best power. But the spacings on the heads are the same on all air cooled 911's through I believe 1989 (not sure where the 993 cars fit).

So go garage sale-ing! Sorry to hear that your engine donor buddy - seems like a great guy.

angela

A-sale-ing I will go, a-sale-ing I wil go ... High-ho-the diary-oh, a sale-ing I will go ...
Uh, so the $25 muffler's a go, and the pipes are common through the late eighties? Stick with little ones?
C'mon. Maybe I really COULD be a genius! (Or at least look like one!)
Woo-Hoo!

-- and on a more serious note, this guy really is a good man. Stinks when a fellow like that gets laid low and there are scumbags who live to be 100. Ain't fair. His family are all there for him, though, which has to count for something. He's not alone. They're good folks.
Spend time with those you love now, huh? You just never know.

66 to 74 911's all used the same exhaust. You will be able to find heat exchangers for cheap if they are rusted. You can remove the exchanger part because you wont need heat. Mufflers are easy to find also. You want the dual in muffler (pre 75). Also pre 75s had no cats.

FYI that muffler on ebay is not a 911 muffler unless it's for a 75 and up. It only has one inlet. They did make a 911 muff but once again early 911s have dual in mufflers.

You should be able to find a good used system for less than 150.

Ill keep an eye out for you. It wont be a problem finding them.

Bryan

The ebay ANSA is part number PRO0320 which according to ANSA site is for a 70-72 914/6 2L and 65-73 911 2/2.2/2.4L L/T/ES. Yeah I noticed the single inlet and knew that wasn't a 914 4 cyl.

Cory - Yes my TIV is a '75 1.8 with oval ports. I have bus "headers" (OEM heat exchangers with outer tin and aluminum fins melted off) which I plan to use after shortening them a few inches. Also have a single 411/412 heat exchanger which I would prefer to use to get a little heat -- but need left side one. Know its not performance but ok for stock engine. SS one are way $$!

Got to agree with "bt". The picture for that Ansa is not for an early 911 exhaust system as they all had 2 inlets into the muffler...uless there's another pipe that takes the two from the headers into the muffler? That does look like its for a later 911 and those were known to be power robbing systems...most with those try to convert to the earlier system.

Take a look at the pictures of my car Cory as it has a six in it. It came with the heat exchangers but I swapped them for a used ceramic coated Bursch header system. You can find new ones for about $300 or so.

The Bursch will bold right up to a stock 911 muffler with one outlet and I do have that system. I also have an OEM 911 "sport" muuffler which resembles the 356 stock because it has two outlets. I've seen these at Mid America and Performance I think.

The car came with what looks to be a stock 911 muffler with the stock single outlet welded up and two holes cut and 356 outlet pipes welded in it at the right 356 places. If you look at the pics of my car with the Ontario plates it had that system on it. Very stock 356 looking.

I then got a 914-6 Bursch system from the headers back including a glass pack. This system bolted right up to the Bursch headers as a stock 911 muffler but was a little wide to fit up in between the bumper supports on my car so I took out about 2 inches on each side and welded it back together. This gives me a 2 into 1 and I use either the glasspack or a Supertrapp both exiting the driver's side. I think there's a pciture of the Supertrapp.

The Bursch headers I have must be early ones as they are each two pieces for each side...new ones seem to be one piece per side I have another system that I use where I take the two short sections of the headers out (these sections make a dogleg and add about a foot that brings the two headers closer together to mate with a stock muffler) and I bolt up 911R megaphones that I installed a couple of Harley 4" baffles in. This is very, very loud and earplugs are required but what music they play!

Favourite is the Supertrapp setup as it provides a nice raspy noise and with the discs you can "tune" it somewhat for less noise and power or more noise and power. At least that's the theory. I can attest to the tunability of the noise level but I'm not so sure on the power.

Anyway, some options to consider. I got rid of the heat exchangers mainly because mine were kind of shot and rusted. I had another set that I eventually sold on Ebay cause I just figured I really didn't want to drive the car in the cold anyway. If I did I would just dress for it.

Brian

I appreciate all the advice!
Next question is how to make it all work with the hatch mechanism. My engine's the anchor-point for the rear deck. I have those steel blade-mounts coming off the back of the Type IV; They'll have to be shortened or re-routed for a long, side-to-side muffler setup. I hadn't even thought about that.
Crap.
Bryan, please see what you can come up with between now and the first of the year. Everybody else, please keep watching the projekt; I'll be needing tech help for sure.

Cory,
You might have to have your back-end lift up then out. Like a custom truck bed.I'll try to capture a pic. I dont think that your rear will be able to tuck under with a stock 911 muffler.Maybe you can do hide-out style behind the rear wheels???

What are you doing up at 5:30 in the morning?
Bryan

I'm a fireman. Sometimes I'm up even earlier, but this morning I just got in early and had a few minutes. It's nice to be able to shower and such at work!

On the exhaust problem; I'm going to use a little, tiny Flowmaster for the four cylinder engine. Maybe for the six I'll just do one set of three pipes on each side, and dump them out in front of the tire with some two-inch tips and a pair of small in-line mufflers.
I'll weigh my options, but I really would like input from everyone. Sartwell hasn't ever done a 911 setup.
If exhaust pipes are exhaust pipes, and there's no reason to think they aren't, do I need a crossover for this engine or can I just route it anywhere I want to under the engine compartment tins? I'd think I could take it straight forward on each side, as long as both of my collectors are clear of the shocks and axles.
If I have stock headers from the heads, I can weld a flanged end on those and flip the pipe in a 180-degree "J" to go forward with the main pipe, right? And if I have to cross it over for back pressure regulation, then I can put a ladder-style corossover over top of (or underneath) my tranny ...
Thoughts?

Cory:

Sorry for the hijack! I know this may just be symantics, but this is something that I have been made well aware of years ago and never forgot... aren't you a firefighter not a fireman?

The reason that I ask... Years ago I used to teach kids how to ski at several resorts in the mid-atlantic region and got my ass handed to me by a senior instructor who fought fires for a living and did not make them, after I introduced him as a local "fireman". (He said it in a way as calling someone Sir and getting the reaction... "don't call me sir, I work for a living") Anyway, he clearly wanted me know know the difference. He said that a "fireman" is a fellow who throws coal on a fire and get the boiler going (on a train, steelmill, ship... etc). I just wanted to make sure that fireman is no longer an offensive term any more. What is funny about this, besides that I remember it 20 years later like it was yesterday, but I also remember his breath, as he was a 3 pack a day guy and when he breathed on me... I wilted.

66 to 74 911s dont use a cross-over pipe. I'm sure you would NOT need one. Not sure why but Porsche never put one on from 66 to 89. If it improved performance believe me Porsche would have done it. I would be thinking something like headers with hide-out muffs. You might be over thinking your exhaust.


Post it on Pelican in the tech section. Top notch pros on that site will give you all the info you need.
Bryan

Bryan, thanks. I'll be certain to do that.

Fireman vs. firefighter; I could care less about being offended by a term. Try saying 'firefighter' out loud. Then try saying 'naval reservist' the same way. You have to over-articulate both, and it can't be done without sounding a bit light.
Since I'm both a fireman and a reserve Navy chief (and not the least bit light in the Y-M-C-A sense), I'll stick with simple terminology.
Literally, of course, that guy 20 years ago WAS right.

(My captain on the engine, however ... Well ... I'll print this for him! ha hahahaha ha haha ha ... ha.)

Cory
Looking at another post, you want your muffler over your trans. Take a look at headers from a 914-6 they go straight back.You might be able to use those if you flip them from side to side

Also take a look at 75 to 89 911 exchangers. They can be switched to either side. Both of them exit to the left and to the back of the engine(near tyhe trans). The 74 down exits toward the rear of the car. Sorry I have a book in front of me not a webpage so I cant post a pic.
bryan

www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/images2/9146_headers.JPG

Good stuff, Bryan. I think it makes more sense to put the muffler(s) over top of the tranny where the back seat used to be as long as I bolt two flanges together to detach them whevever I pull the engine for major work.
In theory, all I'll have to do is unhang the bodywork -- one reason I built it this way -- but in practice, the frame horn supports will mean I couldn't yank the engine without disconnecting the pipes.
And there's room in there for more than the muffler(s) will take up.
I'll keep looking, but that's all very helpful information. Thanks a bunch!

Lost the auction for the mufflers Wolfgang posted about above.