Camber Compensators

I'm sorry to bring this topic back up. I searched previous post and didn't find this particular question. So please be patient with me.

I'm looking to fix the slight wobble that I experienced with my recent purchase. (Still yet to be delivered)

I've seen two brands of Camber Compensators out there, CBperformance.com, and another from CIP1.com. Is there a distinct quality difference? Are the materials stiffer in one over the other? I've noticed that they attach slightly different, as the CIP1 has rubber pads on the ends and CB's has what appears to be metal straps that are bolted on.

I would love to hear from anyone who has dealt with either or both brands, before I go and order.

Thanks - Mel

Camber compensators go on the read suspension. If you are wandering up front, you may have bad shocks, misaligned front end, bad steering box or one that needs adjustment or something else. These cars are very light in the front end. Alot of us use a sway bar up front (Sway-away seems to be a popular choice).
ed

Mel:

Camber compensators won't necessarily correct a "wobble". All they are there to do is to keep the rear wheels perpendicular to the ground on a swing-axle rear end (or parallel to each other, depending on how you look at it). In that respect, they act similar to a sway bar on an Independent Rear Suspension (IRS) where the rear wheels are positioned to go straight up and down, as opposed to a swing axle rear where the wheels pivot up and down on an arc equal to the length of the swing arm.

OK, so here's what I would recommend for when you get your baby home:

1. Jack up each wheel of the car in turn and spin them around to see if the rims are running true, i.e. no wobble back and forth or up-and-down movement. If they do wobble (make sure they're tightened correctly, too), then replace the wheel - it's hard (but not impossible) to find someone who can straighten them to make them run true. You should also check at this time for any obvious (big) rim dings.

2. Take the car to a tire/alignment place and have all the wheels balanced. At the same time, ask them to check to see if any are "Scalloped" (but since it supposedly has only 650 miles on it, this should be moot). Scalloping on the front will be noticeable in the steering wheel gently moving back and forth as you drive at low speeds. Scalloping on the rear you can sometimes feel in your seat or the small of your back as you drive along. Both can feel like a wobble.
I've also seen some tires "take a set" if they've been sitting for an extended period, such that they have something like a "soft spot" and will wobble as that spot comes around. This used to be really obvious with Nylon tires, but is hardly ever seen these days - just something else to think about.

3. Have a 4-wheel alignment done to make sure everything is running straight and true.

These 3 things should take care of any "wobble" due to mechanical and tire means.

After this is done, if you think the "wobble" is still there, then find an existing Speedster owner in your area and get together to test drive each others' cars to compare and let the forum know what you find/decide (The New Jersey Replica Club would be a good place to visit). We'll need a good, detailed description of the "wobble" to help diagnose it.

gn

Thanks Ed & Gordon;

I think! wait that will get me into trouble. I'm sure that "Wobble" was incorrect in my description. It goes back to the high speed test drive that was producing that on "The Edge" feeling. Like the car's rear end wanted to get ahead of me.

Gordon like I mentioned to you, I didn't really feel it until I started to reach that higher speed. I'm sure checking the tire pressure would have helped as well as having someone follow me to check the car for trueness. At this point, I'll have to keep my fingers crossed that it's not a Crawler since i've already paid for it! (The pan was cut and welded by VS)

Mel

Ahhhh, spinning out in a speedster, it can happen very quickly, especially in the wet.
ed

As an old swing axle Corvair person, I can attest that camber compensators ONLY work in cornering. Straight ahead has NO effect. When you do corner or even spin out due to lack of tire adhesion, a compensator will keep the rear wheels from "jack knifing" as described in Nadar's stupid book Unsafe at any Speed. I've spun Corvairs (ice racing and just plain over exuberance) with and without compensators. BIG difference in recovery capability. With todays modern tires and grip capabilities, I'd hate to imagine the impact of jack knifing, the breakaway would be instantanious and you'd need to be a ninja to catch it.

You must have a front anti-sway bar. My VS came with none.

I have the Camber Compensator without the strap. This model simply retains the wheel in the perpendicular position when unloaded. This protects from rear wheel tuck-under when hitting a bump in a hard corner.

The strap may create an affect similar to an anti-sway bay flattening the rear in corners. I have no experience with this bar but it sounds like a nice improvement.

My VS with 3/4 bar in front and Compensator in rear will slide on demand with very little body roll. I can slam into a right hander using only the rear wheels sliding sideways to slow me down. Power on through corner and enjoy the push.

There is a new motorsport catching on fast called "drifting". Enjoy.

Mel: You mentioned you noticed the problem at higher speed. Did you find yourself constantly correcting to keep it going straight? I did with mine, it seemed to want to wander all over the place only when I went faster. I put a set of caster shims behind the lower tube of the front beam which made a world of difference. I also adjusted my steering box for a tighter feel.

BD

Ed, why did you reject the CB/strapped unit, just curious



Gclarke "The Vacaville Guy"

Mel, the camber comp. probably won't help the front end, alignment will. I've used both the comps you describe, use the type that doesn't attach at the ends. I sent the CB one back, it acted like a helper spring in the rear which it didn't need, and tended to raise the rear of the car. Eddie

Sorry Gary, I hope the edited version helps. Eddie

Mel,

Did the previous owner driver it very much?

As you said, checking the tire pressure could be a very easy fix. I had a wobble last year, had not checked the tire pressure for a while and it was low. Made a big difference. The steering damper (a small shock absorber-type thing on the steering) could also be a less expensive fix if it's old and you are feeling the wobble in the steering wheel.

Mel: If it's at all possible, you should try to get to Carlisle, with or without your new car. Then, you can meet us and drive a few of our cars (preferably similar to yours) to see how they feel and whether they're the same.

If you bring your car, we can drive it and give you our impressions as to whether anything's wrong.

Bruce and Alan can also perform, free of charge, the East Coast equivalent of the now-Canadian-famous, "Two-Ronnies Red Line Test", and draw a line on your tach where the valves float.

We would be happy to provide that service free of charge. BTW, we are also now offering a new service - a Hooters-stuff...you get the opportunity for bragging rights for the most number of Hooters girls stuffed into your Speedster.

Wait! Wait! Wait!

No one ever mentioned anything about the Hooters Girls. Shhhh - I have to type quietly, or the wife might hear. What's the record for the amount of girls in a speedster?

That would probably cause some extreme top heavyness under such conditions - M

Runor is that's how Alan broke his windshield - practicing! We are working on a solution to avoiding that problem for future "stuffs".

Mel,
I have a camber compensator from cip1, in new condition, that I'm not going to use. It's yours for $50.00 including postage. Let me know.
Joel

Mel,

Your new Speedster looks great. Are you registered for Carlisle yet? (this is a recording) Instructions can be found at speedsterseast.home.att.net/register.htm

Hey Bruce!

Thanks! I'm really looking forward to giving the car it's first wash and thorough cleaning when it gets here. Sorta like a baptism before it's first official ride around the neighborhood.

I'm sorry, but I won't be able to make Carlisle this year. My Wife and I are celebrating our first Anniversary that weekend. She was going to let me go, but ended up booking our trip for that Saturday.

I'm sorry that I will not be able to meet everyone, but hope to do so in the near future. Any other meets during the summer?

Mel

Big Thanks to Joel!

I received the part quickly - Good as NEW
Took about 10 minutes to assemble. Now if I only had the car to attach it to.

I'll have to wait another two weeks I guess :(

Mel

Mel:

Please email me direct, as I have a couple of car-carrier questions about getting a car from Massachusetts to Justin, Texas. No, not a Speedy, but a pristine '69 Barracuda.

Thanks, Gordon

Mel. I have the same questionas you regarding the camber compensor. One design (CB) uses straps to pull down on the axil; the other has pads on the ends that push up on the axil. It seems to me that the strap version pulls down on the unloaded tire causing more positive camber while the loaded tire is is uneffected by the pull down strap. The paded version seems to do the opposite, i.e. further loads the loaded tire to prevent body roll while also loading the inside tire as it tries to swing down. I guess I also don't know the real theory behind a camber compensator.
As regards the stright line stability at higher sppeds, my solution (after using all of the standard procedures, alignment, tire pressure, caster shims, etc) was to retrofit a Porsche steering box. The ZF box has a variable rate that progresses from less steering wheel turning at low speeds and more steerin wheel turning at higher speeds to acheive the same change in tire movement. Thus, a slight correction at a higher speed does not result in an abrupt change in direction. The difference was profound. I ran the VS up to 90 and experienced much less tendency for the car to wander left or right.

Neither version pulls down on the arm. The spring is fully loaded at rest. The only thing the Compensator does is to keep the outside wheel from tucking under if unloaded in a corner due to a bump in the road. This keeps the wobble down in a bumpy corner and minimizes roll-overs.

minimizing roll-overs is good.
ed

I've been there twice

Its good your here to be able to tell about it. I never did but I got airborne a few times in SCCA racing. Had a guy flip right in front of me once, that'll get your attention.
ed