Can anyone identify this build?

Most likely it is a CMC based on the 914 gauges in the dash and the look of the engine bay.

Looks to be a CMC with Vintage Speedsters interior w/ the horizontal 1-1/2" trim pieces added, vintage speedster carpet and probably sourced the top there too. On this speedster the white walls work ~

CMC is the DIY kits correct?

That’s true, but some CMC cars were built by body shops and so forth when the original kit buyers realized that the build was beyond their abilities.  Regardless of who built it, someone did a really nice job on that one.

@beemerb0y posted:

CMC is the DIY kits correct?

Like everything DIY, some are done to great specs with a great deal of care and quality parts. Some, not so much. It just requires a more thorough inspection to determine which one it is. But as Gordon said, that one looks to be well done. At least from the pictures. But get underneath it and look and see how nice the welds were done. You'll know if you're looking at quality or piecemeal work.

I'd bet on an older, California Automobili Intermeccanica. I wouldn't bet a LOT without crawling over it, but the 914 gauges were California IM. CMC's had the more "hot-rod" looking "Vintage" gauges.

With CMC the 914 gauges were an extra-cost option.  Mine has them.  The front turn signals look like CMC.  The engine compartment grille doesn't.

@Stan Galat posted:

I'd bet on an older, California Automobili Intermeccanica. I wouldn't bet a LOT without crawling over it, but the 914 gauges were California IM. CMC's had the more "hot-rod" looking "Vintage" gauges.

@beemerb0y Would you take a picture of the rear engine deck hinges and post them?

Single 40 IDF Weber. Interesting.

It does look like an older IM Pan with 914 guages for sure.

Seller states donor car was a 1965 VW, 1600 VW air cooled engine and 4 speed manual transmission, and drum brakes …Apparently was restored last year with new french vanilla paint and new interior, new seats and rear bench, new carpet and door panels.. odometer showing 23K miles but the car has less than 100 miles since newly rebuilt engine and transaxle. I say “apparently” because there is no accompanying paperwork/receipts of said work, other than the “previous owner told me” and when I asked if I can be put in touch with previous owner, I was told “that’s impossible…he passed away last year”

This car was in California for those who reside here and may have seen it around

asking $42k obo… seems high if its a CMC or other non-highly recognized build

Ask to see pictures of the rear deck hinges.  If it's a Automobili Intermeccanica they will be stamped Intermeccanica.  If the hinges are blank I would bet a CMC/FiberFab.

Price is dependent on the the build quality.  There are good builds and poor builds.  The door gaps appear even and clean, so perhaps a good build.

-=theron

So... it's on a '65 pan with drum brakes- is the wheel bolt pattern the old style 5x 205 mm then?  Without documentation I'm guessing the gearing is probably original and has a 4.37 r&p- with the 1600 it will be reasonably zippy through the gears around town, which is great; the downside is it won't have long legs on the highway (but with a smaller engine that's ok).  It does look like a nice car.  I'm guessing from the lack of a trunk seal it isn't an IM.  Are the heater outlets on the fan shroud  open or blocked off? _{(you want them blocked off so preheated air isn't being dumped into the engine compartment)}

Agree check the hinges for INTERMECANNICA in raised letter.  IM bought new 914 gauges for their early pan based cars.  They even had the cast hibachi grille.  When I bought my CMC the options were 3 color combos of the VINTAGE gauges of Chinese reproductions of the 356 green gauges.

CMC had many cars custom build - in the 1980's you saw them (or a TD) in all the major airports.  First I've seen one with Pilkington windshield glass.

I will ask seller for pictures of the trunk hinges.

thanks for all the feedback

Is the seller in Palm Springs,  It seems like I saw that car for sale about 3-4 years ago.  They always have their pictures next to those same concrete walls, and usually some on some roadway around Palm Springs.   

Pics of hinges and rims as requested. Looks to be an Intermeccanica.

steel pan, see underneath pics

Seller believes its 2 owner car coming from California last.. no paperwork in regards to the engine and transaxle rebuild or nee paint, interior, etc

thoughts on build, quality, value, etc,

@356GS (Greg) posted:

Is the seller in Palm Springs,  It seems like I saw that car for sale about 3-4 years ago.  They always have their pictures next to those same concrete walls, and usually some on some roadway around Palm Springs.   

Previous owner was from palm springs, perhaps some of the pics used in the ad from few years ago.

Also, what year did Intermeccanica transition from the VW pans to the tubular chassis? Not sure what year this one was built; is there a way to find out?

And have they always been built with lap-belt only?

So that would make it one of the 608 from 1976-1980 Speedsters that Henry Reisner built in Santa Ana, California.  Shame it doesn't show the IM Manf plate (foil tape stamped with info) in the passenger's door opening as that would show the build number.  From the underneath photos it looks like it was recently totally restored.

All Automobili Intermeccanica speedsters were made on a VW chassis.  Serial #s 0-246 were the first series before retooling. Serial #s 247-608 were the second series which can be identified by an Aluminum foil ID plate on the driver’s side door jam.

Nice looking car.

@beemerb0y posted:

Also, what year did Intermeccanica transition from the VW pans to the tubular chassis? Not sure what year this one was built; is there a way to find out?

And have they always been built with lap-belt only?

Early '80's, once they left L.A. and got established in Vancouver.  I know that they were using type 1 floorpans for a while after they moved here, but no one seems to know how many pan cars were built in Vancouver and when exactly they went to their own chassis.

I have an early kit (one of the original 608 from LA) and it has a foil sticker in the driver's doorway.

@ALB posted:

Early '80's, once they left L.A. and got established in Vancouver.  I know that they were using floorpans for a while after they moved here, but no one seems to know how many pan cars were built in Vancouver and when exactly they went to their own chassis.

So it’s safe to say this was built 40 years ago?

40 years for sure!  Most replicas have lap belts only.  Shoulder harnesses are difficult to safely mount since there isn't a steel mounting point at shoulder level.  Some do have roll bars and that is a convenient/safe place to mount them. Not sure if you could trace the registration back all those years (doubtful) unless it had the IM foil id on the door.

So what precautions go into buying a 40 year old replica? I know Intermeccanica is highly regarded, but I would think a new/newer build would be better, even if from other manufacturers .. newer suspension, rubbers, gaskets, better building technique and systems, and perhaps other improvements from over the years, etc

@ALB posted:

Early '80's, once they left L.A. and got established in Vancouver.  I know that they were using type 1 floorpans for a while after they moved here, but no one seems to know how many pan cars were built in Vancouver and when exactly they went to their own chassis.

I have an early kit (one of the original 608 from LA) and it has a foil sticker in the driver's doorway.

I test drove a 2002 IM, and it was on a custom frame with VW front and rear suspension, but with the Golf rack and pinion. It had electric rollup windows. It had some mold on the door panels and needed new carpets. The owner left it outside for a year, so the interior was shot. It had a 2110 that needed a tune-up. Paint was gorgeous, and I could have picked it up for around 20k back in 2008 or so.

I don't know what year the changeover was.

I seem to recall the change over took place in the late 80’s.

FYI, 1984 approximately was the start date, and it was rolled into production at the new Canadian site.

A 40 year old car needs a complete going over IMO.

@IaM-Ray posted:

FYI, 1984 approximately was the start date, and it was rolled into production at the new Canadian site.

A 40 year old car needs a complete going over IMO.

If any of the old-timers remember Ron O'Black, his car (the one he owned twice) was a pan-based IM Convertible D, which was about as rare as a real Convertible D in that there couldn't have been very many at all built.

If I recall, his car was a 1984.

That's the problem with buying from a dealer and not an owner.  History is lost or not revealed.  I believe I saw same car advertised at  dealer for $41k.  If you look at engine and under carriage photos, it looks brand new to me (as though recently restored).  Even looks like the pan was coated with bed liner. Lots of extras (if you like them) - luggage rack, headlight stone guards, fog lights, leather hood straps, vent windows, wide white walls. Plus tasteful classic colors.

Engine - appears newer stock dual port 1641 (due to single carb).  Has newer mechanical fuel pump and alternator. Has heat exchangers but hoses off shroud aren't connected. Appears to have remote oil filter.  So nothing special with engine - would assume stock geared transaxle.  No leaks visible.

Prices have jumped since COVID - $41k doesn't seem unreasonable for an IM now days. DrClock provided link to a much newer 2007 Beck with only 7k miles and some nice features (its burgundy color) like a 1914 cc engine for $42k.  The older IM might be easier to sell out of country due to age.  IM has bragging rights but Beck is right there with them (just less known outside of SOC).

Would the general consensus say a brand new Vintage Motorcars build is better than the above Intermeccanica from 40+ years ago? It’s said to be restored in the last 100 miles, but no paperwork to prove it. What were IMs going for 1-2yrs ago?

I recently rebuilt a pan-based series 2 IM (late '70s). A few points:

1) Any car that old will need a lot of care due to aging of everything. If the bones are good (floor pans, transmission, engine) you can just handle the issues as they pop up.

2) Going through the whole car, I saw few differences between the old IM and some of the well-built CMC examples owned by folks on this forum. If you're just looking for a good replica and not set on having an IM, consider other vendors on a case-by-case basis.

3) If you buy newer IM, you will still need to do a complete check before buying. If the car is far away, pay a trustworthy person to take a look at it for you.

Good luck!

@beemerb0y posted:

Would the general consensus say a brand new Vintage Motorcars build is better than the above Intermeccanica from 40+ years ago? It’s said to be restored in the last 100 miles, but no paperwork to prove it. What were IMs going for 1-2yrs ago?

Yes, a new VM is better. If you want a car now, paying someone to check out the older IM is the best way. Then you can make a better decision.

What's the back log on getting a new VM? - bet it's 18 months or so.  Not sure your age but I'd rather be driving this summer than 2 years from now.

Check out that Beck that DrClock linked to.  With only 7.5k miles, it is probably sorted (odds and ends already fixed).  With Beck you get much more interior room and an advanced tubular chassis. Plus a builder that still cares about his marque and will go out of his way to assist with issues. That Beck is a stunning car! If you are on East coast or mid-states - have it shipped to Beck to have them go over it and pick it up from them and drive it home.  Where are you located?

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@WOLFGANG You crack me up!

"What's the back log on getting a new VM? - bet it's 18 months or so.  No sure your age but I'd rather be driving this summer."

Says the guy who actually COULD be driving this summer, last summer, and the summers before that...

@beemerb0y posted:

So what precautions go into buying a 40 year old replica? I know Intermeccanica is highly regarded, but I would think a new/newer build would be better, even if from other manufacturers .. newer suspension, rubbers, gaskets, better building technique and systems, and perhaps other improvements from over the years, etc

Everybody is going to look at this differently, but here are my thoughts on the questions you ask:

The "bones" of the car matter. A pan car is always going to be a pan car. That's not better or worse than anything else, but things are baked into the cake that will always be there. A round-tube Beck is always going to be a stiff car with a VW beam and a swing-axle transmission. It's going to have an almost freakishly roomy cabin. A tube-frame IM might have a VW beam, it might have a 911 front end, but it's always going to be IRS. The cabin will be roomier than a pan-based car, but not as roomy as a Beck round-tube car. The seat will sit lower than in any other replica (other than a new Beck - I have no idea how low those sit).

If a car has ever been repainted, it matters at least as much who repainted it than who built it to start with (except as it pertains to the frame and the wiring). There's very little difference between an early IM, a CMC, a Ryan, or a Fiberfab. Kirk Duncan's VS speedsters had hand-laid fiberglass (like the current Greg Leech VS cars), which is a different process. 20 years ago, people made a big deal about that - but Vancouver IMs were chopper-gun bodies and they are gorgeous. What matters is how the bodies cured before they were painted (fiberglass has a tendency to shrink and warp unless they cured either by time, the sun, or being heated). If the body was cured, then primed, and blocked - the car will be still be stunning in 5 years. A repainted car is often nicer that a factory-built, if the factory car was built in a hurry.

40- 50 years have passed since this car was built, which shouldn't scare anybody, but often does. What would matter to me is the quality of the bodywork and paint, and the condition of the running gear and interior. These really are very simple cars, so a PPI would uncover anything that might be an issue. Rubber bits do dry-rot, but there aren't that many of them, and they are easily replaced.

There are plenty of home-builds that are phenomenal cars, and some factory cars that were pretty shabby after a couple of years. If a car has a high-quality respray, a solid pan, clean wiring, a nice interior - the rest is running gear, which can (and probably will) be changed out at some point down the road.

It's the engines that are a complete crap-shoot in any used car, and in my opinion almost every used speedster without a complete engine build-sheet and verifiable maintenance history should be considered to be an unknown. It might be a well maintained Pat Downs 2276, or it might be a "garage floor sweep special". There's no way to know without documentation.

@DannyP

HA, probably why I bought the new Miata!  I did get that horse trailer moved so now I can clear out around the Speedster and get back to work.  Need to pull engine and hopefully find a local that will work with me to put it back together.  I just bought new parts and bolted them together --- Lazy me. Wife says I can go out there and sleep in trailer to I finish Speedster and the Mod-T dune buggy.  Sound like I wo't see her much.

Maybe Merklin, Gordon, and I can fly down and crack the whip.

Panhandle(Calamity) Bob can go for beer runs...

@WOLFGANG, you have about three months until Carlisle and seven until the TdS.  Set a goal and get busy!

@beemerb0y posted:

Would the general consensus say a brand new Vintage Motorcars build is better than the above Intermeccanica from 40+ years ago? It’s said to be restored in the last 100 miles, but no paperwork to prove it. What were IMs going for 1-2yrs ago?

I would venture to say yes. Greg has made a multi-tune of improvements in the design and build quality of these cars. But you'll have to wait a while and pay a bit more.