Can't shift - Clutch Issue?

looks like frayed clutch cable,,U can adjust it tighter but its liable to break from my past experiences..

Here's what that EMPI cable shortener looks like.  So, you can see how the larger nut hold the cut (shorter) clutch cable.  You can try to tighten the upper adjusting and lock nut but as Bob pointed out the cable appears to be starting to fray (one strand at a time until it strands you).

Sort of looks like it has slipped away from the pinch point. If you look you can see the flattened cable right where the cable ends and goes into the adjuster.

Yeah, it looks like you’re way out of adjustment.

Properly adjusted, the clutch pedal should show about 3/4” free play when pushing at the top of the pedal - You have lots more than that.

Adjustment is back at that adapter on the transmission lever.  Your cable end (shown by Wolfgang) may have slipped a bit - those adapters are not very good at all.  

You can re-tighten the cable adapter and re-adjust things, but it would be a lot better to buy a new clutch cable, already shortened to the right length, from Vintage or Beck and install that instead.

Hello to all.....Thanks for all the feedback, decided to order a new cable from Vintage and install it correctly. When I put the new cable in, how much movement should I get on the clutch/transmission lever? Will I need to take out the entire pedal cluster to hook up the new cable at that end?....Thanks again and appreciate all the help!

You will need to completely remove the pedal cluster from the tunnel to install the new clutch cable.

In my experience, cables stretch twice: a little when they’re new, and a little more right before they break. You’re right to replace it.

Yes the pedals need to come out, but the cluster is just two bolts. The hardest part is getting them back in with both the gas and clutch cables on their hooks, while getting the brake MC rod in place.

Pro-Tip: tape the pedal end of the new cable to the clutch end of the old one and pull it through to the footwell. Alternatively, cut the pedal hook off the old cable and tape it to the clutch end of the new cable and pull it through to the engine compartment. (You just have to be careful not to pull it into the tunnel with plan B)

"When I put the new cable in, how much movement should I get on the clutch/transmission lever?"

IIRC, pushing the clutch pedal fully will get you about 1" - 2" of movement at the top of the transaxle lever, depending on which lever was used on the tranny.  The proper way to adjust it is at the pedal, for about 3/4" free play at the top of the pedal.

"Will I need to take out the entire pedal cluster to hook up the new cable at that end?"

Mike answered this 2 posts up ^     Yup.  Disconnect the brake pedal push rod, disconnect the accelerator cable, remove the two bolts holding it in and it should come right out.

Once you get the pedals out and disconnect the cable from the hook on the inside end of the clutch pedal shaft, the cable then gets pulled out from the hole where the pedals go in.   You may have to make a clean cable cut on the tranny end of the cable if it's frayed or really bent up - the tube it's going to slide through isn't very large on the inside and you don't want it to bind while pulling it through.  Watch out - The old cable may be greasy for its' full length.

Installing the new cable is just the reverse - Slide it into the clutch cable tube at the rear of the hole where the pedals attach and keep pushing until it comes out of the rubber boot in the chassis just ahead of the transaxle.

TIP:  You want to thoroughly grease the new cable as it is being fed into the clutch cable tube.  The best way I've found is to wear a Nytrile or Latex glove on your right hand and put a glob of grease in your right palm, feed the cable through the grease and into the clutch tube.  Keep feeding and greasing the cable as it goes in until it comes out at the rear.  This way, you can push the cable through with your left hand and you probably won't get grease all over everything near you.

Good luck!

Jack Crosby put me onto a good idea years ago...there's a longer clutch release lever available and if installed it's much smoother / lighter on the foot movement. Also, when under the aft end looking at the front end of the Bowden tube, make sure that the front end of that makes a " solid stop " entering the frame work. If that weld is broken where the front end of the Bowden tube meets the frame work nothing will work properly. If the weld is broken there and you're not in a position to get it welded up right, I have an inexpensive and easy cure for that.

This should help in reference to what Dave Stroud is talking about:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/fo...ewtopic.php?t=695084

The other thing to know is if you have a 16mm(early) or 20mm(73' and up?) clutch cross shaft. It looks to me as if any of the double side cover transmissions(swing axle or early IRS) have a 16mm shaft and the single side covers from 1973 and up have the larger 20mm.

It doesn't really matter because all the parts interchange as far as I know, you just need them all: lever, shaft, and bushings, along with the appropriate throwout bearing for the shaft.

https://weddleindustries.com/p...ch-release-mechanism

Looking at that Samba post, I was told that Arm #2 was used on the Type 2 bus transaxle along with a "bus" bowden tube mounting bracket to make the cable line up.   A local place that rebuilds VW Buses had both in stock and that's what I installed.  I never thought much about it, but my car has a pretty soft clutch feel for a 1,700# Kennedy clutch.

Along with the weld for the cable tube letting go at the rear of the chassis as David mentioned (and his fix is pretty trick), I had mine let go at the front as well, where it is welded to a bracket just behind the pedal cluster.  I ended up finding it (it's pretty obvious when the clutch tube is flopping around in there) but to weld it back on I had to open up a door on the passenger side of the tunnel for access.  What started out as a small PITA quickly became a much bigger PITA.

Having said all that, from your photo of your rear cable adapter those adapters are truly junk and I would suspect that installing a proper new cable will cure your problem, rather than having to weld the cable tube at all.

Still.......    Good Luck!

My Kennedy 1700# stage 1 diaphragm pressure plate had uneven spring fingers on it when I took it apart some years ago. I realize now that it was 100% fine. The clutch effort was normal before with the Kennedy, not extreme or muscle-building.

But at the time, I thought it needed replacement(turned out to be the mainshaft circlip). I went with the Sachs HD 200mm on Carey Hines recommendation. It is awesome, plenty of grip, and a very light and progressive take-up. I am continually amazed with how light the pedal effort is.

And I experience ZERO slip, even with my EFI engine making just that little bit more power than before. I am 100% certain I am north of 180hp at the flywheel.

Thanks Gordon, for the directions and Tips on completing the installation.... this will help a lot!

let me add my 2 cents here as i have offered in the past....while replacing a clutch cable you need to remove the pedals....while they are out....get the BIG BOY pedal kit that spaces out the clutch pedal 3/4" on a replacement shaft  and makes the WEAK LINK "HOOK" thingy on the clutch shaft MOOT by using a bolt & nylon nut     www.classicbugparts.com has videos even though it's pretty simple   words of the wise & just IMHO 

@jncspyder posted:

let me add my 2 cents here as i have offered in the past....while replacing a clutch cable you need to remove the pedals....while they are out....get the BIG BOY pedal kit that spaces out the clutch pedal 3/4" on a replacement shaft  and makes the WEAK LINK "HOOK" thingy on the clutch shaft MOOT by using a bolt & nylon nut     www.classicbugparts.com has videos even though it's pretty simple   words of the wise & just IMHO 

That is a Big Feet soluition for sure.

@IaM-Ray i have big wide feet...and can not drive comfortably  with your average sketchers /regular style tennis shoes....so the extra 3/4 " spacer is a real necessity for me....plus i really like the lightweight soft racing /driving shoes regardless if i did have smaller feet

@jncspyder posted:

let me add my 2 cents here as i have offered in the past....while replacing a clutch cable you need to remove the pedals....while they are out....get the BIG BOY pedal kit that spaces out the clutch pedal 3/4" on a replacement shaft  and makes the WEAK LINK "HOOK" thingy on the clutch shaft MOOT by using a bolt & nylon nut     www.classicbugparts.com has videos even though it's pretty simple   words of the wise & just IMHO 

If I took my pedal cluster out I think I’d go with the complete classic bug parts upgrade. I was all set to do it when I realized that no matter how much I fussed with it, the geometry just wasn’t right to get an OEM VW clutch pedal to operate a hydraulic MC so I ordered a new clutch/brake pedal from Greg.

@DannyP posted:

My Kennedy 1700# stage 1 diaphragm pressure plate had uneven spring fingers on it when I took it apart some years ago. I realize now that it was 100% fine. The clutch effort was normal before with the Kennedy, not extreme or muscle-building.

But at the time, I thought it needed replacement(turned out to be the mainshaft circlip). I went with the Sachs HD 200mm on Carey Hines recommendation. It is awesome, plenty of grip, and a very light and progressive take-up. I am continually amazed with how light the pedal effort is.

And I experience ZERO slip, even with my EFI engine making just that little bit more power than before. I am 100% certain I am north of 180hp at the flywheel.

What disc are you running?

Non-spring center Sachs, @ALB

@jncspyder posted:

let me add my 2 cents here as i have offered in the past....while replacing a clutch cable you need to remove the pedals....while they are out....get the BIG BOY pedal kit that spaces out the clutch pedal 3/4" on a replacement shaft  and makes the WEAK LINK "HOOK" thingy on the clutch shaft MOOT by using a bolt & nylon nut     www.classicbugparts.com has videos even though it's pretty simple   words of the wise & just IMHO 

Thanks for that advice, while I'm in there rooting around I my as well put this in while I'm at it.....would definitely give me more room....

I experienced this once; and as the others have said; the pedal action gets progressively ineffective until the pedal goes to the floor and does nothing. Normally that's a cable fraying and on its last legs; also pray that the clutch tube inside the tunnel hasn't become unwelded from it; that's another pain in the ass, as Gordon experienced. You did the right thing by just getting the correct length cable instead of using adapters. I remember using an adapter when I had a dune buggy back in the '80's and it was not optimal. A friend of mine has used two cable clamps on his car just cutting and overlapping the cable over the transaxle with good results but you're better off using the correct length cable. I did over ten years ago and it has held up. Also I got lucky with the install (just like I have with shifter rod bushing replacements); it didn't get complicated.

Well OK.....,was successful getting Pedal Cluster (not a pleasant Task) out, also was able to install the BIG BOY Pedal Kit that jncspyder recommended, again thanks for those words of wisdom! So now I am in the "putting it all back together mode" Installing the new clutch cable I can see is NOT going to be easy, since I have fat little fingers and when I was taking the old cable out, could not stick a finger in there to find out where the exit point of the old cable was coming from. So, with that said, I will be working in the blind, the only thing I can feel is a small square (part of frame?) that the cable "could have" come out of?  Are there any other entry points to that location that I can use? Looking for a few good ideas....Please advise.

Maybe if you remove the shifter you can look down through that opening to see something that will help.

If you do remove the shifter you probably should mark its position so you don't have to adjust it.

Don't bother removing the shift lever - You won't see anything from that opening.

The cable exits a 3/8" diameter metal tube behind the pedal cluster (towards the rear of the car) about an inch behind the opening and about 1" towards the passenger side.  There is a bracket welded in place inside of the tunnel, and the clutch cable tube rests on top of that and is welded to the bracket.

Yes, it's kind of hard to see it back there.  I've had good luck releasing the cable at the tranny end and using a rubber band to allow it to be pulled forward enough to fit the front loop over the clutch pedal hook.  then the rubber band pulls just enough (or someone back there) to pull the cable back as you replace the pedal cluster while keeping the cable on the hook.

If you get desperate, do what I did:  Cut a 4"H X 8" long opening on the passenger side of the tunnel opposite the pedal cluster to make a door that will give you full access to what's in there.  I had to do this to re-weld the tube to that bracket and there simply wasn't room to see in there to know where to weld it from the pedal cluster opening.

@Gordon Nicholswith the BIGBOY kit the "hook" thingy is now MOOT.....a bolt & nylon nut will now hold firm the clutch cable onto the clutch pedal shaft...forever eliminating what over time is a WEAK LINK problem of the HOOK thingy wearing out and breaking....a really good upgrade for all pan based cars  www. classicbugparts.com  @Larry Scislowicz   do yourself a favor and spend a few more $$$ and replace the PLASTIC  shift rod bushing www.EV4U.com brass bushing which will be good for the life of the car.... (making sure the actual SHIFT ROD itself  is in good condition)....and get a vintage speed shifter with the PORSCHE bushing and all shifting issues will be in the past....resulting in absolute SMILES for MILES    as always just IMHO

Yeah, I thought the upgraded clutch attachment was a good idea and ordered one a couple of weeks ago - Still waiting for it to arrive so I’ll have it whenever my current cable dies.   I’m guess it’s time for a “Where’s my stuff?” Email….

****Edit****

I just saw an email from them telling me they were out of stock of that clutch upgrade shaft and don’t expect new stock until next year.

With my Superman eyes - here's what in the center tunnel where the clutch cable goes -

And here is back a bit further - but not necessary to know for cable installation -

@WOLFGANG posted:

With my Superman eyes - here's what in the center tunnel where the clutch cable goes -

And here is back a bit further - but not necessary to know for cable installation -

Thanks....they say a "picture is worth a thousand words" and I need all the help I can get!.....Great stuff!!

@Gordon Nichols posted:

Don't bother removing the shift lever - You won't see anything from that opening.

The cable exits a 3/8" diameter metal tube behind the pedal cluster (towards the rear of the car) about an inch behind the opening and about 1" towards the passenger side.  There is a bracket welded in place inside of the tunnel, and the clutch cable tube rests on top of that and is welded to the bracket.

Yes, it's kind of hard to see it back there.  I've had good luck releasing the cable at the tranny end and using a rubber band to allow it to be pulled forward enough to fit the front loop over the clutch pedal hook.  then the rubber band pulls just enough (or someone back there) to pull the cable back as you replace the pedal cluster while keeping the cable on the hook.

If you get desperate, do what I did:  Cut a 4"H X 8" long opening on the passenger side of the tunnel opposite the pedal cluster to make a door that will give you full access to what's in there.  I had to do this to re-weld the tube to that bracket and there simply wasn't room to see in there to know where to weld it from the pedal cluster opening.

Thanks Gordon.....I decided to go the "access hatch" route, so with it and Wolfgangs picture I should be OK and that should be enough to overcome the FAT FINGERS issue. Question- is there anything I should be aware of when cutting out the 4"X8" access door/hatch? any wires/things that should not be cut behind it? ....Thanks

@Larry Scislowicz - perhaps just drill a 3/8" or 1/2" hole and use one of the cheap bluetooth borescopes available everywhere to see what's going on.

Please understand that the tunnel is the backbone of the car, and it's one place I'd probably not weaken without adding some strength to replace what you take away with the hole. Once you have a hole (which you'll need to repair a problem, should you find one), you need to repair it once you're finished. Welding the panel back in place is the only way 100% foolproof to restore the strength you removed by hacking a hole in the tunnel.

I'm not a fan (at all) of just using screws on a sheetmetal patch panel and hoping for the best.

The tunnel is structurally important.  If an access hatch is not patched correctly it weakens the car structure.  I would consider an access hatch to be a last resort.

Maybe thousands of people have been able to replace a clutch cable without resorting to such drastic measures.

A borescope could be inserted in the pedal opening or the shift lever opening without drilling a new hole.

Then Wolf could use his X-Ray vision to reweld the brackets if you find them loose.

@Michael McKelvey posted:

The tunnel is structurally important.  If an access hatch is not patched correctly it weakens the car structure.  I would consider an access hatch to be a last resort.

Maybe thousands of people have been able to replace a clutch cable without resorting to such drastic measures.

A borescope could be inserted in the pedal opening or the shift lever opening without drilling a new hole.

Jinx.

@Stan Galat, can you elaborate?

@Michael McKelvey posted:

@Stan Galat, can you elaborate?

We used to say that when we were kids when two people said the same thing at the same time.

Look at your post, then look at mine directly above it. (which I'm sure I was composing as you were composing yours). We're both saying the same thing.

The tunnel is important. I (and you, clearly) would not just hack a 3" x 6" hole in the side of it unless there was no other way to make a repair, and then only if I was ready to weld the panel back in and brace it further.

@Stan Galat, yeah, I didn't see your post.  I wasn't reading messages on the site. I was responding to a post sent to my email because I had commented on the topic.

Once again, it is confirmed that great minds think alike.

Yeah 4"x8" is major.  Even if the clutch tube has broken loose that's too big a piece of steel to remove.  The gas line is in there too. Maybe rent a 12 year old to feel in there or run some 16 gauge wire thru from the back then catch it as it come through the tube and securely tape the new cable to it and pull it back to rear.

Imho, you are making this way harder then it needs to be.  The only time I ever had to cut open the tunnel was to replace a clutch tube, as you need access to weld the new tube in.  
I’ve never installed a BigBoy kit, but I have done a bunch of regular clutch cables. First, undo wing nut at trans cross shaft.  Then pull cable out of tunnel a few inches.  Bolt clutch cable to the new BigBoy clutch arm. Reinstall the pedal cluster. Reinstall and adjust the clutch wing nut.

If doing this on a stock pedal assembly, same procedure, just after hooking the eyelet over the pedal hook, use a twisty/Ty wrap/mechanics wire to secure the cable to hook. This keeps it from falling off on when putting it back into tunnel.

@Stan Galat posted:

@Larry Scislowicz - perhaps just drill a 3/8" or 1/2" hole and use one of the cheap bluetooth borescopes available everywhere to see what's going on.

Please understand that the tunnel is the backbone of the car, and it's one place I'd probably not weaken without adding some strength to replace what you take away with the hole. Once you have a hole (which you'll need to repair a problem, should you find one), you need to repair it once you're finished. Welding the panel back in place is the only way 100% foolproof to restore the strength you removed by hacking a hole in the tunnel.

I'm not a fan (at all) of just using screws on a sheetmetal patch panel and hoping for the best.

Stan .....  that is a great idea! I have a friend that has one of those borescopes and will have him come over early this week to literally "see what we can see" thru the clutch hole. I may not have to go the route of cutting the tunnel up after all......thanks for the advice!