Can't find reverse!

I'm building a Thunder Ranch Speedster and am just about ready to put her on the road. I started the engine, put it in gear and left the garage with a huge smile on my face. Went 20 feet and decided to go back in the garage and attach the seats properly. I tried reverse and can't find it. I have been messing around for an hour or so and found reverse once but have not been able to find it since. What is the trick to setting the position of all the plates? How much do I need to depress the shift lever (Stock Type 1) before searching for reverse?

In neutral push the shifter in and its down next to second.

I seem to be able to find all the forward gears but can't seem to get it into reverse. Could I have parts in place backward?

Auurr aaa ?? how can i say this delicately ? Turn the plate around you got it on backwards .

(with a big bashful smile) and a Hommer DUUOP!!

Been their done that.. Oh and depress the shift knob as far down as it will go as you roll it into reverse.

Will give that a try when the sun comes up. Thanks.

My problem is that it sometimes hits reverse when I am going for second.

This might help:

http://www.vw-resource.com/plateadj.html

You can also find information about adjusting the shifter by searching thesamba.com

Mike your eather heavy handed or have a weak spring on the shifter.

I have seen weak springs on them . So thats my guess..

Take it a part and streach it a bit. Not the best thing to do but it will help you stay out of big trouble with the gearbox.. a new spring is whats realy needed..

I learned that one the hard way. busted the reverse gear in a 68 beetle that way. thats a swing axle car.. Oh what fun that was to fix!

I am using a CSP shifter. I should have to pull up the butterfly thing to get into reverse.

How sloppy is the coupler, back at the trans? You might need to use that access hole in front of the rear seat, on the "driveshaft" hump.

Today I took everything apart and I had all the parts in the right order but obviously not in the right position. Played around with the positioning and found reverse a few times but couldn't repeat the find when I wanted it. Looked at the Samba site and followed their instructions without any success. Have not seen any pictures of the parts layout but I have the plate with the tabs on it in place with the smaller tab on the left side, tab up and the "ramp" tab on the right. My shifter is stock from a 1974 Karman Ghia if that makes a difference.

yelp Id make sure the rear coupler is not busted or rotted away. The new polyurethane ones are realy good..

The rear coupler (the coupler that connects the shift rod to the nose cone on transaxle?) is brand new so I don't believe that is the problem.

Sounds like your shift stick base is out of adjustment and off to one side too much. That would, indeed, allow you to find the forward gears and not the reverse simply because it wouldn't allow enough sideways movement to get to the reverse lever in the nosecone, even if you've pushed down on the shift lever to get beyond the reverse lockout tab.

Why? Because as you move the shift lever from side to side, the shift rod in the tunnel is actually rotating and in the opposite direction than an arc defined by the gear shift knob. If the base of the shift lever is off sometimes even by as little as 1/8" left or right, the lever can't rotate the shift rod enough to "find" the gear engagement lever inside the transmission nose cone. That lever looks like your hand held open and upright to make a hand puppet. There's a corresponding "hockey stick" lever on the end of the tunnel shift rod that when rotated precisely so, can hook those nosecone shift levers and push or pull them to engage the gears.

I would first try marking the shifter base against the tunnel at the front and rear of the base (for left-right reference), then loosening the shift lever base and moving the entire base to the right about 3/16"-1/4", retighten and see if you can find reverse in the normal way. If not, re-center it on your marks and move it to the left 3/16"-1/4", retighten and try for reverse. If neither of those work, then you may, indeed, have a coupler problem, but I think you're just out of adjustment.

Good luck, and please report back. It's not difficult to find the right position for the shift lever base, just time consuming due to trial-and-error.

gn

When I rebuilt my dunebuggy I had to slot the holes a bit to one side ..

Like anything handmade you do what you have to to make it work right..

Yup.......

I don't know how important this is but with my car I had to shorten the shaft from the "shifter" to the nose cone. And now the shifter when in neutral is not in the vertical position. I am trying to understand the geometry of how this thing works. Am I correct that the shift lever when the transaxle is in neutral will be as close to vertical as possible? I think I will fix the length issue first and then address the base plate position. I will let you know how this goes.

Bob -- if you can hit 1,2,3,4; it is not so important the shifter be vertical in neutral, as long as it is comfortable for your arm's reach. Read this over, maybe it will help: http://www.vw-resource.com/plateadj.html

If you shortened the shift rod (going from the shift lever to the nose cone coupler) then, most likely it may not be the perfect length for your car nor aligned "straight" up and down when centered in neutral.

The easiest fix is to get a new shift rod from a junk yard (anything from 1959-1974 would work well, but the newer (and less worn) the better). Use the shortening instructions in the later CMC manual under the Library tab at the top of this website pane and you should be fine but, remember......take your time and make sure it's aligned really straight before you start tack welding it back together.

I put a tube inside the shift rod to hold it and keep it straight lengthwise and then align it straight circumferentially before I tack weld it on the outside. A scribe line down the length of the tube before you start cutting will do wonders for proper alignment after the cut is made.

Good luck.

gn

Mark, I was able to find all the gears including reverse once in awhile while sitting in the shop. On the road it was a different story. I seemed to find first and second but not third and fourth.
Gordon, I am going to order a new shift tube as I live in an area where there are Zero type one VW's I'll take your advice on the welding. Kind of how I did it the first time but the length was just a guess. Guessed wrong! Will keep you all posted. Really want to drive this car as I now have tasted blood. We are having frost warnings tonight with snow flurries scheduled for the weekend. Hope they are wrong.

FLURRIES?!

Heck, it's still hot here. I think we're almost to the time of year where I can start bragging about our weather again. Almost through the worst of it.

Lane-yeah, the weather here is lousy, too. Had to put on my heavy tee-shirt... http://obs.astro.ucla.edu/towercam.htm

Here in central Massachusetts we currently have the A/C running (9:30pm), but tomorrow night they're telling us upper 40's and maybe lower 40's the night after. Gotta hurry up life so we can get the Hell out of here and go back home where it's warm again.

I previously said that we were going to have flurries this weekend, well I was wrong about that. They were this afternoon. Only about an hours worth but the temp dropped to 37 degrees. Monday it was in the 80's today 30's. Go figure

If I was to switch to one of these new "Quick Shifters" would I still have the problem I seem to be having now? I have temporarily lengthened my shift rod 3/4 of an inch. It now sits dead center in the shifter base. I connected everything up, the shift lever sits vertical and now I can get Reverse a little more easily but now I am only able to get 1st and 2nd gears. At this point is it just a matter of trial and error?

Bob---be certain that there is no carpet between the base of your shifter and the metal of the tunnel otherwise you will never get your shifter working properly. That was the trpuble I had with my CSP shifter until I cut the carpet to allow the shifter base to be against the metal of the tunnel. Good luch---when that CSP works right, there is nothing like it for smooth shifting!

Jack, I don't have any carpet in that area yet. Thought I would just wait till I had this issue sorted out. Tell me about your shifter please. Would it be easier to set up than my current stock unit?

Bob, before you get carried away installing aftermarket "enhancements" get the stock shifter mechanism working well. There is no reason your stock mechanism can't be made to work well. It has worked well for over a half century on a zillion VW beetles. Once you have the stock system working well, then consider if enhancements are necessary.

So, for the record, what is your current state now: Can you hit 1,2,3,4 but not reverse, or R,1,2 but not 3,4, or what?

What Mark said.

I mistakenly thought you were trying to get a shifter working--sorry.

You asked about my CSP shifter and it was made in Germany and I bought it from Cip1. Nice stainless steel and super high-quality like most stuff thiscompany sells. Easy to install and set up and a pleasure to drive with.

Good luck with your car!

If I was to switch to one of these new "Quick Shifters" would I still have the problem I seem to be having now?

YES.

I have temporarily lengthened my shift rod 3/4 of an inch. It now sits dead center in the shifter base. EXCELLENT!

I connected everything up, the shift lever sits vertical and now I can get Reverse a little more easily but now I am only able to get 1st and 2nd gears. At this point is it just a matter of trial and error?

Not quite.....Your shifter base is off-center, probably to the right, OR your shift rod is still not correct left-to-right such that the shifter cup, when perfectly vertical, is 90 degrees perpendicular to the horizontal centerline of the shift coupler just ahead of the tranny nose cone.

So, to the "trial and error" part:

Try moving the shifter base slightly to the left and see what happens. If that cures it, go have a beer. If not, keep playing with it until it cooperates.

gn

So, Here's where I'm at currently, I have lengthened the shift rod 3/4 of an inch and the shifter sits vertical. I positioned the base plate as far left as it would go in order to get reverse. In this position however I am only able to get 1st and 2nd gears. My inquiry of the aftermarket shifter was merely hope that with that I might not have to keep messing around with searching for the right spot. Sounds like that is not the case so I will move onward and keep trying new positions

Yes, that is not the case, because the problem is NOT with your shifter, but with your shift rod. It is not made correctly so ANY shifter used will exhibit the same results.

Gordon is on track and maybe I can be of help.

Start by taking a measurement from the center of the rear shifter coupler to the exact center of the shifter hole opening in the tunnel.

Now measure the shifter rod you have from the center of the rear hole in the rod to center of the shifter cup.

This is what I do on every build and have never had a shifting issue.

They need to be exactly same. ~Alan

Thanks for the info, I will pull it out tomorrow and see what I have for measurements. When I originally cut the shift rod it was not marked with a registration mark so it is possible that the hole at the rear is not at right angle to the cup at the forward end. I guess I will check that again as well. I wish I had a better understanding of the geometry and mechanics of how the these things all work together.

Like Alan said !!

Check the length and measure your shift hole to the tranny coupler hole that the set screw locks in. Make sure your shift tube matches it in length.

I pulled the shift rod today and did the measurements. As far as I can tell, I am within a millimeter or two of being spot on. Placed the tube on a dead flat surface to check the squareness of the rear hole to the rod and it is as perfectly perpendicular as possible. I guess I will put it back together and keep playing till I get it right.

Well I don't know where to go from here. I must have several days worth of tinkering behind me. Replaced the bushing, rear coupler, remade the shift rod after measuring at least a dozen times and I still am unable to find reverse when I want it. Today I never was able to find reverse. Bad transaxle?

Sometimes when I raced formula fords, a guy would yank or force the shifter to find a gear... and bend shift forks, or bend the "hockey stick". We basically used this transmission with straight cut gears. It was called a Hewland MK9. I'm beginning to think your hockey stick is bent or something...

Bob-I don't have THE answer to your problem, just curious in the diagnosis. Re: the shift rod, check the text description on this link page as it alludes to a difference in shifter/rod length.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D111%2D711%2D155%2DG

If the rod is correctly measured center from shifter hole to center coupler and the bushing and coupler are replaced then as a last resort and a bit of a pita, disconnect the rod and coupler and wrap the trans shaft with a layer of duct tape to protect it then with a vise grip, see if you can rotate and move the shaft in and out to get it into reverse, this will tell you if it's the trans or not.