Carb linkage rehab.....

Some where on this forum is a thread about using spherical bearing rod ends on modified air filter bases to eliminate the wear problem in the hex bar type carb linkage.....I ran though the "knowledge" section but didn't find it.....Can some one give me the thread or tell me if the rod ends were male or female thread....If I remember correctly they were 5/16th inch units...

Thanks....

Leon, Here ya go:
I first used female Heims but changed to male units so as to adjust the height of the Heim using jam nuts.

http://speedstershop.com/viewtopic.php?t=805&highlight=hexbar+fix

http://www.spyderclub.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=8039&start=78&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=hexbar+fix

~WB

Thanks Bill, I appreciate the help.....

I may have a kit of those made up. I know I had them up in Massachusetts, and I think I threw a kit into one of the bins when I came down to Beaufort - want me to look? It includes the Heim joints, lock nuts, 5/16" hex bar end extensions, centering spacers and centering springs.

I made up several sets a while back, installed one set on Pearl and sold a couple of sets to others. The Heim joints are perma-lube Aircraft quality - can't remember if they're Fafnir or not, but they're the best out there.

Email me if you're interested.

gn

Hi Gordon....Missed you on the TOD....Hope all is well....Thanks for the offer, but I have contacts with several bearing houses around Atlanta, and parts on the car are still good....I should have done this last year.......

Mod is installed.....Looking forward to "YEARS" of trouble free use....Yeah, right!!!!!

I have to recommend CSP's center pull carb linkage. I have been fighting with hex bar linkages ever since they came into being, what 30 years ago? and have done the various mods and repairs and improvements described in the references and invented a couple of my own....in short order they return to being out of sync, or just a little bit worn, or just a little bit loose, requiring re-syncing and the like.

The center pull linkage is a better solution IMO, at least for me. It is not a perfect solution either, but the geometry is better, the point of rotation is on ball bearings, and the balls and sockets can be seperated with a twist for checking sync, adjusting idle and like if need be. And in over 10k km's I have not had to re-sync at all. As a matter of fact I recently removed the carbs and put them back on, and the sync was still good. The only thing I can find to complain about on the center pull is the idle increases from cold to hot....but it can be balanced out and lived with successfully....

One of the best $100 I have spent on my engine......maybe the single best $100 spent....

They have a center-pull for Webers?

that they do, check http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C31%2D129%2D941%2D100

I notice this one claims to be for Porsche style fan housings, you may want to look a bit further just to be certain, if there is a drawback it would be the unit does mount in front of the fan shroud. If your car has the hexbar on the back some rework would be needed to bring the cable up front....

I don't know Jim, I did the hexbar thing a while ago, has to be at least 9000 miles, and still smooth and synchronised. As you'll remember on Spyderclub, Mark and I did the same thing independently and got similar results. Some of the SOC here have done it also and not looked back. My idle doesn't change from engine cold to engine warm too much either. My hand throttle compensates for the little bit of change though, doesn't seem to be linkage specific, seems to be carb specific.

Leon, try this, it should be a help:

http://www.spyderclub.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=8039&highlight=hexbar+fix

You know Danny, you are entitled to your opinion and I to mine. I noticed a long time ago that you and I agree on very little, so I can think of no reason this should be different. Have fun.

Leon -

When all else fails you should try my Buster-Brown-Shoe-Lace-Center-Pull linkage! 8-)

Danny, That's basicly the mod I used....Went with male threaded heim joints, as I modified my existing air filter bases (drill and tap) in order to ease adjustment.....Thanks for the follow thru....And Jim, I keep one shoe string in the "kit" just in case....

Thanks to all...

Leon said:
"Mod is installed.....Looking forward to "YEARS" of trouble free use....Yeah, right!!!!!"

Actually Leon, you really CAN look forward to years of carefree linkage reliability. Like Danny said, he and I have been on similar concepts of the rod end modificaion for quite a while now, probably 5000-6000 miles for me.

Nowadays I just throw the snail on the stacks out of curiosity. I don't think I've ever had to make a balance adjustment as a matter of routine maintenance since the rod ends were installed.

Prior to that, I had replaced the standard hexbar twice within 5000 miles due to wear from the pivot ball making repeatable balance adjustments impossible.

The difference with the rod ends is so dramatic that I would suggest it is a manadatory retrofit for anyone with a standard hexbar setup.

Mark

I would agree with Mark with a caveat:

I did the Heim joint conversion that Mark and Danny and others on the Spyderclub site did. I bought the Heim joints from Eastern Bearing in Worcester, MA., and they convinced me that there is a WORLD of difference between "standard" quality Heims, those used for the Hot Rod crowd and those used in the aircraft industry. There is also a significant price kicker between each category (and you get what you pay for.) The same Heim for my application was priced from about $5 each for the low end, to about $20 each for the high end. They also convinced me that the "Standard" ones would wear out pretty quickly, as they found out from their hot rodding customers, but the mid and top end would last for years because they have either teflon or a lubricant impregnated into the bearing ball.

Secondly, the original 356 crowd had a linkage similar to what Jim has, and many of them have upgraded to ball bearing (not Heim) interfaces and those have lasted for years, too, as long as you lube them yearly or so (some have sealed bearings and some do not). These seem to be working as well as the Heim versions, as far as I have researched, and the original linkage mechanicals were retained.

I've only got about 3000 miles on mine with the Heims, but I had only 7400 miles on the original ball joints from CB and both ball and socket were already egged and getting sloppy.

gn

I've got about 12,000 miles on the original hex-bar setup, and I can't tell that there's a problem. Of course, that could be because I don't know what to look for. Gordon, let's take a quick look at it when I get down there this weekend.

Wait a minute... Is it possible that I have more miles on my car than you do on Pearl?

First impressions......The throttle response is MUCH more predictable....and carb adjustment was a lot simpler.....Thanks to all, and Lane....It's not that difficult to do....Gordon probably has all the details written up.....

Ok, here a year and a half later (and with >20k miles) I am noticing quite a bit of slop in the throttle linkage, enough to make a significant rattle when the car is cold and idling roughly. Still, I can't tell that it's hurting how the car drives. Gordon, do you have any of those kits left? The CSP bellcrank setup is $125, and the one linked to above is $140, so I will probably try the other first.

Did mine July 2007. Have NOT touched the carbs since.

~WB

Pretty soon I will be doing the heim joint mod to another car besides mine, should be done for the car to make an appearance at Carlisle this year. It's been years since the car has been there. This one has the nylon bushings and steel brackets, so it will be different than doing the CB linkage.

Anybody got a parts list?

I do, and I just might have one kit left but the question is, Which house is it at?? hmmmmmmmmmm................

Let me look tomorrow and see if it's here. If not, I could send it to you after Carlisle. If I remember correctly, the kit parts cost was something like $40. and I used the write-up from Wild Bill to do the mod. The Heim joints I sourced were Aircraft-quality (Meischner's? - can't remember) and I included new hex-bar ends, centering spacers and springs. Nice set-up.

I'll be able to put more kits together after Carlisle when I'm back in New England (all my sources were in Massachusetts, anyway) if anyone else is interested.

gn

Well, I have had no problem with the linkage since doing the mod.....Just the pump diaphrams (?) dissolving from the fuel's ethanol content.......I'm about to re sync., just for the practice.....Thanks guys.....and Lane, its a fix and forget thing......I know you will like THAT.

Yeah, I'm real good with the "forget" part ;-)

Gordon, Go ahead and put my name on the list for a kit.

I'll take a set too

OK, but it'll be after Carlisle (late May).

Lane, the kit I have must be in Massachusetts.

I'll also consolidate step-by-step instructions from Danny, Bill and me into a really good guide to go along with the kit, including pictorials.

gn

We're all eagerly standing by. I love the concept and the execution, and will have some of this one of these days. Been to a local speed shop where they have such stuff (heim fittings) and have begun to think about how best to do it. As ever, Gordo and Wild Bill lead the way.

Having re-read my original post on this very topic (on another, albeit similar site), one of the things I mentioned was that, if you've got less than 20,000 miles on your engine and/or CB-style, ball-end hex linkage AND you've been religious about keeping the hex bar ends lubed, I really wouldn't bother even thinking about doing this kind of upgrade. You really have to have considerable "slop" already evident in your present linkage in order to notice a significant difference in this upgrade.

I did my upgrade with only .015" slop in my old linkage. Not a lot, but noticeable if you know what to look for and are picky about how your engine performs.

Why did I do it?

Because I had the parts given to me by Spyderman Danny, I had the time to do it (and needed something to do, too) and looked at it as an interesting challenge. That hardest part was removing my perfectly good air cleaner bases and then cutting the linkage mounting tabs off!!!!!

Anyway, I'm already working on a nice set of printable upgrade instructions, I should have both a kit of parts and/or a parts list with sources in a week or so (although sourcing the permanently lubed, German Heim joints I used might be hard as my source is an industrial supplier) to make it as easy as possible for the shade tree mechanic to tackle this. I should have everything ready to go around the end of May.

gn

Kelly, actually this came from a gentleman named Mark and I over at Spyderclub.com. We both had the same idea at the same time on opposite coasts. Then it got spread over here somehow, and the rest is history. My car has 13K on its heim-jointed linkage with zero problems, still the same heim joints. My jonts were about $5 each, from western NY state. I can't remember the supplier, but I did get their name off the internet.