carb troubles in paradise

It is 75 today and I decided it would be a great day for a drive. Well two minutes in and not even out of my culdasack I heard something amiss. So I turned around and cruised into the shack. Pop the latch only to see that the carb link on the right carb has a dooddad broken. That is picture one and two. Secondly, as I was taking the dooddad off, the carb link-shaft-turnbuckel-piecey-thingie broke as well. That is in picture three along with the busted dooddad. The piece looks as though the original owner used a very light aluminum piece to replace the original metal piece. I am not sure of the names of these pieces, so that would help to try and locate a replacement. The engine is a TIV and my mood is unsettling. If you are not sure what you are looking at, I will try to describe it again, but I think that the picts shows it well. If I was to guess at the name, I think that it is an intermediate lever or the throttle lever????

You appear to have a broken throttle lever and the connecting rod for the Heim joints. What carbs do you have?
You most probably can replace these easily from CB Performance, Peek Performance in MD., one of the many VW oriented vendors or even Ebay. I believe they are side oriented so you may have to specify right or left. Don't panic, ain't no thang...just like they say $hit happens.

BD

Dang, Kevin! You've been snake-bit recently (sorta like I was for a while). Yeah, I got the Speedy out for a ride today as well. Damn nice for February. We need to get together for another run soon. Or I'll offer my help in coming over and tinkering on your car sometime.

I have 40 Dels

Same as mine. Here's a page that can help.
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1245

Nice Page!

Kevin: You are not running the CB Performance hex-bar linkage, but those parts that broke (Heim joints and conecting links) are available from either CB, Summit Performance or just about any decent speed shop in the Charleston area. Take in a baggie with the pieces in it and a good speed shop should be able to give you some new pieces the right size and lengths.

gn

Hey, Kevin -- Does this look familiar?

I can reach it... no problem. I have been running around trying to find replacements today, but so far, no success.

I went by to see Ken today and still no luck in finding parts for the Dels. He told me he would sell me an entire kit for $100 and homey won't be having that. I also have been by several parts store, but still no luck in finding a throttle lever and hex link.

Can you weld that throttle arm and use a piece of threaded rod for the heim joints?

I wonder why that broke tho? There is so little resistance in carbs. I am wondering if it was not adjusted correctly. I am thinking the threaded arm was too long and each time the carb was bottoming out the arm was still trying to push it? I know...poor choice of words but does anyone else understand what I am trying to say?

"homey",
Stop sniveling and just buy the kit: http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=536

It's hard to believe your carb tuning balance was anywhere near the ball park before the pieces finally broke, so you've been running rough for a long time. A dollar to a dime says your hexbar ends are also worn to the extent good balance tuning is impossible.

Start over, with all new linkage -- you need it.

Mark

PS: Make sure you get the right kit, there are several. And measure the length of your current hex bar to make sure it is the same length that comes in the kit.

Kevin, check for a PM.

Complete hex bar linkage for sale at spyderowners.com.
New listing.

some fair number of us have broken similar parts on carb linkages. In most cases I think the problem is not having a positive stop on the accellerator pedal at full throttle. "Flooring" the pedal results in overtraveling the linkage on the carbs and bending/breaking something....a positive stop on the pedal would be adjusted to allow the pedal to travel to WOT at the carbs, no more. Any stress caused by a heavy right foot is then on the stop, not on the cable, linkage, or carb itself.

for me, it was a piece of very light aluminum and it became "tweaked" when trying to adjust the linkage. If it was a OEM, this would not have happened. The turnbuckel piece must have become siezed in the ball and joint linkage and the turnbuckel piece broke of at the lip of the inset threads.

Buying a new complete linkage kit is not a bad idea. It should last a long time.

Short of that, you might be able to find the threaded rod (link) at a nut and bolt retailer (you probably noticed that your link is opposite hand on each end to allow length adjustment without removing). The suppliers are also typically a whole lot less expensive for all your hardware than the typical Home Desperate, etc., so it's a good chance to load up on various sizes of metric stuff when you go. Another plus is their counter folks actually know what they have and go pull it off the shelves for you. Try calling

Robert,
Your advice is certainly valid. However, if all you want are the links, you could save yourself all that chasing around the county on a scavenger hunt: For only $23-$24 plus the time to make a phone call, you could go right to the source and replace both sides!
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=510

better yet, you can have a kick-ass SOC memeber call you and tell you that they have extras! Thanks for the offer Warren! And thanks Cory for being the middle man.

someone sent me a great link to break down the dells

http://www.racecar.co.uk/dellorto/carcarburettors/drla.htm

No problem, Kevin. The ace motor mechanic wanted me to pass advice; the linkage problem I had came from my slipshod adjustment of the throttle cable. Make sure your pedal is ON the floor when you adjust the length. Something about making sure the slack is minimal, but enough to keep from pulling the linkage and over-stressing the connections to the carbs.

Cory - considering that you keep your gas pedal 'on the floor' 99% of the time, that tech-tip would make perfect sense!

Peace - Out!

Thanks a ton Warren, got the parts today and the car is running again... of course it is raining today! I need to get the carbs synchronized and adjust the richness.

Cory, thank for being an intermediary too.

can you listen and tell me what is troubled?

I heard a few mild pops and backfires, but it didn't sound too bad. I know your first experience with Ken might not have been the best, but he's been a real help to me. Give him another try. I'm going to get him to adjust a few things and give my car a thorough checkout before I drive to Carlisle.

Are you talking about the whining noise? Sounds like a vacuumed cat when you hit the throttle -- that noise?
Otherwise it sounds VW to me. Had you let it warm up for three minutes or so first, or was that right out of the chute with a new belt and flywheel?
It might be as simple as rubber. It might be as sneaky as the shape of your fan housing or a hole in a pipe.
I'd look on the front of the shroud for front-to-back adjustment of the alternator if the fan's whirrring on the shroud, check the sharp edges of the belt for shiny rubber and I'd feel along welded segments in your exhaust for pipe-organ holes that might be whistling.
Engine itself sounds fine, but cold.
I'm a rookie at this, but that's my take.

I agree with Cory in that the whining noise is the only thing that I can perceive. Is your fan belt on too tight? If not maybe your alternator bearings are ready to give up the ghost. With respect to the minor popping through the muffler I also agree with Cory that it could be that the motor hasn't warmed up sufficiently. If it's warm enough then it can also be a leaky intake manifold gasket or a leaky exhaust gasket.

What a great idea -- YouTube trouble shooting!

Maybe it's just me, but I heard it stumble up the first time it revved, and I heard an exhaust pop almost every time the throttle returned to the idle stops. And I heard it pop once while it was just idling (towards the end of the "show").

First of all, try it again by simulating the gas pedal via the throttle cable arm on the hexbar instead of the horn lever. When you use the horn lever, the hexbar twists enough so that the other horn lever doesn't pull in sync with the one you are pushing. Hence the carbs pull out of sync and unbalanced.

Second, before putting a wrench on anything, I'd double-check my carb sync adjustments, both at idle and off idle. I sounds to me like you still might have a little balance problem.

Popping from the exhaust is usually the symptom of a lean condition. And for one thing, if both sides of the engine don't have their carbs perfectly in sync with the other side, then one side of the engine is going to be lean. In your case the exhaust pops when dropping to idle, and at idle. So fishing around idle is a good place to start -- and the first place to start is carb sync (before jets, before mixture screws, etc.).

I'm sure you used a unisyn or snail to balance the carbs. Stick it back on and take another look. Idle balance is checked with the hexbar linkage disconnected from the carbs, and adusted with the idle stop screws. Off idle is checked with the linkage re-attached and the throttle cable somehow tensioned for about 1500 rpm. Off idle sync balance adjustment is made via the adjustable link bars to the carbs. When adjusting for off idle sync, always adjust the higher vacuum to match the lower vacuum (otherwise you might interfere with the adjustment you just did for idle).

Once you are sure your sync balance is good, if it still pops the same you can start looking for other spooks like a clogged jet, misadjusted mixture screw, or vacuum leaks (commonly the gasket between the intake manifold and cylinder head).

Good luck -- and I'm glad to see you got your linkage problem sorted out.

Mark

Mark wrote: "Popping from the exhaust is usually the symptom of a lean condition."
Nope, popping in the exhaust is from a RICH setting. Popping in the CARBS is from a lean condition.

Popping in the exhaust is not necessarily a bad thing on an aircooled engine, nor is a rich condition, since the richness will make the engine run slightly cooler. Sure, gas mileage may suffer, but by how much? 1 - 2 miles per gallon? So what?

If, as Mark says, they sound out of sync from side to side, it will run slightly rough and can be easily (usually) adjusted to smooth it out - I set them by ear (ask Lane).

Mark continued: "the first place to start is carb sync (before jets, before mixture screws, etc.). " WRONG. Get your jets set FIRST or you'll be chasing your tail for weeks, then set your mixture (by ear), and THEN set the sync between carbs, first left-to-right, and then front-to-back (if you have Dells). You can use an air-flow meter, but it's just as easy for some people to listen to the noise of the venturii's and dial them in by ear (I bet Ken can do that, from talking with him).

Kevin: The whirring sounds like the common malady of ALL upright fan housing aircooled engines......dry generator/alternator bearings.

The alternator bearings are either (a.) too tight (your fan belt should have 1/2" - 3/4" deflection when pushed midway between the fan pulley and crank pulley - yours sounds tight), or:

(b.) your alternator rear bearing (right behind the pulley) is drying out and going south.

Everybody thinks they have to get the fan belt wicked tight, when less is really more. I run up to 1" deflection and it seems to work just fine unless I nail it from idle a few times, and then it might chirp the belt. If that happens, I remove one (and ONLY one) shim from the center to the outside and that cures it without getting it too tight. The alternator design puts a lot of stress on the rear (Pulley end) bearing, causing them to wear quickly.

gn

Gordon says:
"Mark wrote: "Popping from the exhaust is usually the symptom of a lean condition."
Nope, popping in the exhaust is from a RICH setting. Popping in the CARBS is from a lean condition."

Really?

He also says:
Mark continued: "the first place to start is carb sync (before jets, before mixture screws, etc.). " WRONG. Get your jets set FIRST or you'll be chasing your tail for weeks, then set your mixture (by ear), and THEN set the sync between carbs . . ."

Really?

He also says:
"Popping in the exhaust is not necesarily a bad thing on an aircooled engine . . ."

Kevin, if you like the sound of that popping that you have, and if you want to think that is the way it should be, stick with Gordon.

I don't want to start a war here. You have two opposite opinions. Pick the one you like -- or better yet, get this book!
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=2

Oh, and Kevin, I've never tried it but I bet I can set the sync balance between carbs on my Dell 48 tri-jets with one idle jet in my pocket and a mixture screw turned all the way off.

Cheers,
Mark

so much i want to say, but this time i'll just say NICE CAR!!!!

martin

I'll see your Dell 48 tri-jet, one idle jet and closed mixture screw and raise you a Webber 48, two air-mixture jets and an accellerator pump super-glued open!

I love this game!!

Odwagerty - that's a cool set-up you have. I hope you'll be able to sort out your fine-tuning/trouble-shooting and enjoy that bad boy on the road!!

Peace - Out!

I honestly don't care - listen to Mark! It's not my car...I'm just trying to help....

BTW: Getting Bob Thomlinson's book is the best advice I've seen here...then you can figure it out for yourself.

and if that's not fast enough, read AJ Simms here: http://www.lowbugget.com/help_section.html

He's saying the same stuff I do.......

bye, all.......good luck!

Gordon -- it's nothing personal, just a difference of opinion -- right?

Your friend,
Mark

My engine works like Marks. When it gets lean it pops and ultimately "backfires" out the exhaust big time.....and it can become very lean with an air leak between the carbs and the manifold, or between the manifold and the heads.

By the way, there are only a couple of ways to readily figure out "rich" or "lean". Reading the plugs is one way, and that is more of a art than science for me at least. The other method is air/fuel measurements via an O2 sensor and appropriate meter....

Then there are idle air mixture adjustments, mixture tubes, main jets, float height, idle jets.....I would go for a leak in your case as a place to start from the way it sounds. Keep in mind that you run off the idle circuts until about 3000 rpm's....

As Mark has said, proper sync between the carbs is critical. And sync'ing at idle is needed with the linkage disconnected, then sync'ing at higher rpm's is needed with the linkage connected. Also, much care is needed in making certain the carbs advance at the same time off idle and stay in sync at higher rpm's. Not all linkages advance both carbs at the same rate....wear in the pivot points, loose linkage, wrong arms on the carbs, etc can all play havoc with sync......from the sound of your video your snyc is off as has been suggested.

so much for my efforts at remote diagnostics.....good luck....I wouldn't get all concerned about jets and the like until you get it synced and resolve your air leak.....get those undercontrol I suspect all else will be much easier....

Right off the bat, the motor sounds sluggish as it sounds slow responding to the manual throttle up. Go back to basics as this is the best way not to over look something by checking the plug condition and gap, timing, valve settings and exhaust fit before fondling the carbs ~Alan

I tweaked the settings a little and then I put 5 gallons of 93 octane in the car today and drove the rubber off the wheels. Something is still amiss, but it started and restarted today every time I turned the engine off and got me to 6000rpm without hesitation.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=276261

this is the next step

NICE! Full speed ahead and keep the rubber side down!