Carlisle - Bigger and better?

Simple.  Move it later into the summer to increase the odds of better weather

I was thinking more like later in the Spring rather than Summer - or early Fall.

 

I was also think they need to reach out to all the air cooled VW clubs - they can bring huge numbers - Hot VW maybe?

I seriously doubt that the date would be changed.  As I understand it, we are the smallest of the shows and therefore, I suppose, have to roll the dice on the weather.  What surprised me was the small turnout in the vendor buildings.  Was this weather?  In 2008, the monsoon year, we had a better vendor turnout than this year.  One of the Cobra representatives said that there was another event in Maryland the same weekend and wondered if this bled off our numbers.  Whatever the reason, I had a great time and sensed that others did too.  

my 2 kroner 

I wondered where the Cobras and Meyer Maxs got to this year?  Kind of disappointed that the bucket truck didn't show for a group photo - was that Carlisle cutting back?  Sure are slim pickings in the flea market vendors.  Seems even the Manassas VA Bug Out had more vendors. I didn't see McGuire's big exhibit this year - maybe I missed it.

Do they have a Facebook page?

Tucking in the VW hot rods would be huge.  Are there any on the east coast??  Get the folks at Acme to give some leads on who they deal with in that world.  Do we know anybody in that world??  Gotta be some clubs around, and if they get plenty of warning, and get stoked and stroked (not bored), they would make a very cool addition.  Like a mini Bug Out??

 

Is there any way to reach out to the actual Porsche folks?  Invite them as part of the International aspect.  Would they deign to come?  I dunno, but maybe if they were tweaked, we'd find out.

 

The date ain't gonna change, I'm pretty sure of that.  The weather is what the weather is.  In all my years, it has not been simply awful every day, although the time we went to the Harley factory was pretty damn wet and disgusting, I'll admit.  But on the bright side, all that rain gives us a whale of a lot to talk about, and also to see the various techniques and designs folks use to combat the problem, and how well they do/don't work.

 

So there is $0.02 added to 2 kroner (whatever they are).  You are still gonna need a few more bucks to get an egg sammie . . .

 

Kelly

+1 on the VW clubs. That is a diverse universe of knuckleheads right there, and they hardly bother.

 

I would add that the LBC community could be better represented as well. Those guys know how to party, but what we see at Carlisle is just a few stragglers--particularly regarding the early MG community. Tell him to get on http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/ and make some noise about six-eight months out. If I was him I would reach out to the Moss people too. 

 

Maybe do a mock MG v Triumph thing of come sort. 

Move the whole thing to Florida.

This may have been hashed out before, but FWIW...

 

Carlisle Pro> The annual gathering of SOCers at Carlisle has reached some pretty impressive attendance numbers. All SOCers attending have a great time!

 

Carlisle Con> Those attending use up a lot of vacation time & expense plus drive/travel considerable distances to attend. Subsequently, its a roll of the dice on the weather, which creates angst and trepidation about attendance, especially if one is traveling some distance. History has proven that rain is more than probable, a major sigh of relief if it doesn't.

 

Query> Is there a need to continue with Carlisle Kit-Car and the location? Seems that more than half of the cars at the event are not 'kit' cars (Saab, BMW, Volvo, etc). Vendor attendance apparently is dropping off (most are British/Euro-car car parts/accessories).

 

Would it be a fair trade-off to forgo a 'Best Attendance' prize/banner for a date & location with better weather probabilities. Maybe someplace with a nice park setting for SOCers to gather & hang out, socialize, BBQ, games, softball, navigation rallye or whatever? I imagine logistics for lodging would probably be the same.

 

Just thinking out loud…what do others think? 

it would be nice to have the flea market and parts folks that deal primarily in vw and porsche stuff be more or less together in one area. lord knows i must have looked at tons of british car parts while i was trying to snag some speedster bits. 

 

Jim, your arguments have been discussed for several years, and I am certainly willing to consider alternatives.  If we changed from Carlisle I would certainly miss the imports, the vendors, and the egg sammies, but the people are the main draw for me.  I will follow the crowd.

I think Peoria is the center of the universe.

 

I agree with Lane, that the people are the best part of the event. The weather at that time of the year, in that part of the world can ruin the whole gig. But that's where and when it is and I don't think that will change. Not everybody can take a week or more dodging trailer trucks to attend a 3 day event in cars that are not (all) really suited for that type of travel. I would be just as happy if we were combined with a VW meet and organized cruises and party stuff around that.

 

But the question was from the Carlisle organizers as to how they could make their event bigger and better. I would say mid September, but I doubt that is an option. I'll go with this group wherever they go as long as I can.

So Rich, since I am leaving Peoria is this your way of saying I'm a little off center?

I've been going to many if the Carlisle shows annually so I'll throw my .02 in

 

The original show date for many years was Mother's Day weekend and after continual low turn out and prodding by the former NJ Replicar Club membership, vendors etc the show was moved one week later after Mother's day. With Carlisle Productions 11 scheduled shows throughout the Spring, Summer and Fall we are stuck with the May date ...period.

 

Carlisle Productions needs to improve the Import Kit Car weekend by combining a VW east coast event, this will attract hundreds.

 

Our group has been doing this for 11 years and for the Newbies it's an adventure, for the regulars it's a chance to meet and hang out with the "Old Guard."

 

 

 

 

 

I brought my car out for the first time this year and, though I tend to be pretty quiet, I had a great time.  Personally, I think moving away from Carlisle to another venue is a mistake.  I enjoy seeing all the other imports and kits in addition to the Speedsters.  Though the vendors were a little thin, many vendors and builders were there -- not the case if SOC moves elsewhere. BBQing and all that sounds great...until you have to lug food, drink, ice, grills, utensils and all that other crap halfway across the Country in a Speedster.  At Carlisle, all you need are a few greenbacks and you're eating pretty much whatever you want. There's no set-up and no clean-up.  Carlisle does all that for you.  Imagine trying to get that tent and all those chairs in a Speedster.

 

The issue for Carlisle is how to ramp up attendance from participants and vendors. Honestly, I'm surprised they need to ask how to do this.  All it takes is identifying the imports showing low turnout and those with a healthy following (VW, Porsche, Mini - old and new).  Then, identify the associated clubs and contact them personally.  Same thing with the vendors.  I went looking for parts for the Speedster and Porsches and saw mainly second hand British stuff.  Reach out to the vendors of German, Japanese, parts, etc.  Kitbuilders too.  There's no shortage of builders or suppliers.  Carlisle just needs to be more aggressive in getting them to the fairgrounds.  If that means special incentives or reduced rates at the outset, so be it.  After a few years, when you've built Import Mecca, raise the rates back up to normal.

The Flea Market decline is caused by the ease of buying though ebay etc.

Believe me - I do other shows all over the place and the Carlisle Kit Car Show registration fee is more than competitive.  I don't think lowering the rate will attract anyone, but'cha never know...Giving a few clubs a lower rate as an incentive to get them there might be worth it.    

 

I'm also convinced that Carlisle will never move us from that date - all of their other shows (every weekend from May to October) are solid, too, and that's OK.....it is what it is.

 

However!  We're VW's-in-disguise, after all, and many of us enjoy doing the occasional VW show and combining the attendance of Kits and VW's is always a good thing (and although it's tough to compete for cars with the Bug-Out in Virginia, that show was held the weekend AFTER our Carlisle meet).

 

All that said, I think going after the VW clubs in the Atlantic region (the same way that we canvass for Speedsters/Spyders/etc. on here) would be a positive move.  It is an IMPORT and Kit Car show, after all, so they should be more than welcome.  Overall, our show has more to offer visitors than just VW's or just kits and that's a positive thing.  Shouldn't be too hard to figure out which are the dominant VW clubs (I just googled "east coast VW clubs" and got well over a dozen hits) and target them directly (by the Carlisle folks, not us) and get more to attend.  Maybe do some special events just for the VW folks to give them incentive.  Same strategy for the vendors - see who's supporting both Speedsters and normal VW's and go after a bunch to get more to show up.  There's always a TON of British parts for sale in the vendor area and not much else, even though Audi's, Saabs and VW's (usually water-cooled) vastly out-number the British contingents.

 

He should also advertise in Hot VW's magazine and Kit Car Builder-online.  This is all event organizing 101 - I don't know why the Carlisle folks are asking US how to do it!  If Ed spent a day finding and contacting as many clubs as he finds on the internet as I did he should be able to get quite a few to respond - and he's excited about getting ONE more club to join next year?  Get Busy contacting others!  We have people driving over 1,000 miles to attend, so the VW folks should be able to do that, too!

 

As far as what we might do to improve things, the biggest remaining bugaboo is finding a facility to go to for the evening meals - it's really tough to find a place that will handle a group as large as we've become, but a while back, when I was still organizing our end of the event,  Ed Buczeskie suggested that we could have our banquet right on the show field, either under a tent or in one of the (open) pavilions - Carlisle would help with organizing local caterers for us.  This is what the Saab and Audi folks do and it seems to work well for them (their catered buffet always looks awesome when we've wandered by).  I would think that the "Largest Kit Group for the past 11 years" might have some pull in getting a free tent or pavilion for that.  They do this sort of thing all the time for groups at the other shows, all we have to do is see if it is price competitive with going to a banquet hall in a hotel to see if it all makes sense.

 

That's my dos-y-media centavos

Gordon and Alan are right on. I think attracting an aircooled VW crowd would bring both more cars and vendors.

 

I know I'm coming no matter what the weather. This year I dragged it, mostly I drive it. It really just depends on how much STUFF I need to bring with me.

 

I think other regional smaller events are going to be done by us for us. DC area, PA wine thing(Alan) and maybe a NY-NJ-CT-MA area thing also.

 

But this thread is about Carlisle, which is the mainstay meet and will remain so. I know I'll keep going.

Plus 1 on that pavilion buffet notion.

+ 1 more on the catered affair, pavilion thing.  Sounds like well worth the try.  Only if the weather was truly awful (cold and howling rain) would this be a bummer.  This could work very well.

I know people that went to that show Saturday looking for vendors of old Ford kits. they were looking to buy a '32 Ford. they found nothing. Does Carlisle Events advertize this in any of the Street Rod builder publications?

I think Friday night might have a very good alternative as a show field group dinner gathering. Keeps all together to mingle and more incentive for Vendors to kick in too, ( Cary...turn windshields into wine )  and shooters later ( Henry  ? )....   Seriously, I fully understand that local eateries have a difficult time serving 70 incoming so a catered event makes good sense.

 

This idea profits Carlisle events, keeps the group together and takes some pressure off the organizers...Bruce et al who work so hard for so long.

I've had a Friday night cook out venue in my back pocket since the Sunnyside closed years ago. They would do something simple as burgers/dogs/chicken. I'll maybe have to revisit it. The owner,a car guy with the (ugh) Citroen club, would love to have us over and it's a really nice place. But then again, with no treasury, the monetary deposits and check gathering is a pain in the rear.

Well lookie here...a few clicks on the Google machine: http://www.hornerscornerbbq.com

 

...or: http://reddssmokehousebbq.com/about-us/

 

BBQ - I'm in.  Would they allow/supply a couple kegs of local craft beer? Shoo fly pie for desert. 

 

This thread has run a little off track as I started it with the intent of finding ways to build the Carlisle fairgrounds end of the weekend.  Their event is a great foundation to build our weekend on. As mentioned above by 19652plus2 “Though the vendors were a little thin, many vendors and builders were there -- not the case if SOC moves elsewhere. BBQing and all that sounds great...until you have to lug food, drink, ice, grills, utensils and all that other crap halfway across the Country in a Speedster.  At Carlisle, all you need are a few greenbacks and you're eating pretty much whatever you want. There's no set-up and no clean-up.  Carlisle does all that for you.  Imagine trying to get that tent and all those chairs in a Speedster.“ Anything we can do to help support the Carlisle event works in our favor down the road. Ed Buczeskie asked for our suggestions and I'm more than happy to help as much as possible. So any and all thoughts along those lines are appreciated.

 

Now, regarding Friday night dinner. After running this event for eight of the past eleven years I can offer alot of insight into what it takes to run the weekend – much of it not apparent to those in attendance. We have been lucky to have the Caddy Shack for our Thursday night dinners for 11 years now – finding a place that will let us walk in with 70-80 people, order from the menu, serve decent food and bill separate checks without a contract is going the way of the dinosaur. For several years we also had that benefit at the Sunnyside restaurant in Carlisle for our Saturday night dinner but they closed a few years ago and we went hunting. That's how we ended up at the Park Inn and now the Radisson hotel the past few years.

 

Everyone needs to understand what's involved with any catered event. One consideration is financial liabilities. For example, a contract must be signed well in advance of the event, in most cases to lock in the date and a facility with the caterer. That means, in the case of the Saturday evening Raddison awards dinner I am currently in the process of signing a contract with many legal terms including the following cancellation terms: 0-3 months of the event full payment of estimated revenues of entire agreement, 4-6 months of the event 75% of estimated revenues, 7-9 months of the event 50% of estimated revenues, 10-12 months of the event 25% , etc. Now remember, we do not collect dues in this club and there is basically no bank account to cover financial liabilities. Yes, there is some money collected from the raffle but that covers other expenses incurred over the weekend. Also, most of the money for the dinners is collected in the couple of months just prior to the dinner with a commitment deadline just a couple weeks before the dinner. And in some cases people are sending money as late as the day of or just after the deadline. What if for some reason the dinner had to be cancelled? There are also hidden additional bartender costs if we do not spend a minimum bar bill, there is a minimum head count, damage liability, etc. This past year the reservation was for 90 people, at $37 per person, that's roughly $3,300. Who would cover those expenses if we had to cancel for some reason? Not to mention trips to interview caterers, collecting and managing the money, working head counts, selecting menus, picking viable facilities, trying to insure good food, trying to please all the attendees with the location, food and price, etc.

 

This year we tried something new: Friday evening we distributed a list of restaurants and everyone could pick whatever type food and eatery they desired. Yes, that was a couple of hours we were not together as a group but we were all back at the hospitality suite in full swing immediately afterward. A couple of people on this thread have suggested the idea of a dinner/picnic/BBQ at the Carlisle fairgrounds. Keep in mind that would be fine providing the weather is good. Use the pavilion? Rent a tent? Would people want to run home, take a shower and return to the showfield or just stay there? All things to consider but also understand the other ramifications mentioned above. My plate is full so if someone wants to organize a Friday evening dinner, great - go for it and let me know. Personally, I'm okay with that and can offer to anyone interested my experience organizing this and other events.

 

Now, anymore ideas on how we can make the Carlisle fairgrounds show a bigger and better event?

Groups like ours, along with the Audi, Saab, and Volvo folks, seem to do well, possibly because they can attract attendees from farther away.  People going individually are less likely to drive a long distance for such an event.  Somehow the Carlisle folks need to emphasize the club/group aspect and try to attract more of those to make it their annual gathering.  The idea of making it a national event for VW folks has been batted around and I believe that it has merit.  How exactly Carlisle Productions would go about attracting more such groups is a question for which I don't yet have an answer.

With a large group, it's always best to keep in plain and simple...again simple i.e. don't create additional work ..... period.

Eating local and going back to the hotel hospilaty suite each evening works and shouldn't be........ "folded spindled or mutilated."

What a cluster it would be,  imagine an evening sit down at the Carlisle Fair grounds, having a few beers followed by driving a loud car that stands out for 13 miles to the Hotel......wonder what the odds would be ?

I thought "freelance Friday" worked out well this year, myself.  I agree with Alan, let's keep it as simple as we can.

 

As for how this helps Carlisle Productions (CP) grow the show, well that's still a mystery.  When they have the big Corvette or Mopar shows they are the largest of their kind and will attract great participation from enthusiasts for that reason.  The Import and Kit Nationals is a more diverse event and some of the national or regional clubs can attract larger crowds of their particular interest group to other venues.  Getting other groups such as ours to come in mid-May will require some marketing by CP but they should sit down with a lot of the clubs that do come and ask them what attracts them to central PA.  It sure isn't the weather 

What are good publications or contacts for the VW crowd and the "real" Porsche crowd that I could pass along?  Those would actually fit with most of our interests.  I know about Hot VW magazine and the PCA, are there others? 

Bruce, I also belong to the Michigan Vintage Volkswagen Club.  I'll ask those folks.

 

This is the national FB group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/72032042560/

 

This is the Michigan FB group: https://www.facebook.com/group...chiganVintageVWClub/ 

 

I joined the national group too and asked for advice.  That should tap into quite a few VW folks.

There's the 356 Registry but you have to join to post. It's 40 bucks a year. There's also the 356 section on the Samba...

Bruce:  You mentioned a lot of what "19652plus2" had to say, but that was assuming that we would be bringing all of our own stuff for the dinners.  I was assuming that we pay some dinner fee and everything would be provided.  Yes, I know it's more difficult (I fronted all of the money, personally, for the one year we had the Saturday dinner buffet at the Hotel Carlisle - pretty successfully, I might add, but that is a HUGE risk for the organizer to take on) but it is entirely possible to work with Carlisle Productions to have a very successful catered buffet somewhere on the show fields.  They also have smaller pavilions just for that purpose up closer to the entrance gate (3).

 

You were just at the East Coast Nats in York, PA (WAY bigger than Carlisle's kit car show)  - how many 32 Ford fiberglass body guys were selling there?  Six?  More?  When you think "Kit Car" these days, what do you see in your mind's eye?  Lamborghini?  Speedster?  Cobra?  Noble?  Factory Five?  Gibbons?  Other?  How  any potential buyers of those will be coming to the Carlisle Kit Car Show?  How many of those potential buyers will be reading Hot Rod, Kustom Kar, Street Rodder or Rod and Custom magazine?  Will any of these potentials consider coming to the Kit Car show at Carlisle when there aren't any other Hot Rods there?

 

I read your initial communication from Ed B, and thought; "wow....this guy really doesn't understand his potential market or how to reach them and yet he wonders why his attendance is dwindling every year?"  If we asked about potentially having a buffet on the show field grounds, AND we're his biggest Kit Car group at the show, he should be jumping at the chance to offer us a pavilion, tent or facility for our buffet FOR FREE and then doing PR coverage of it for later publication on their web site.  We'll be eating someplace anyway - shouldn't he be able to capitalize on that?  

 

Trust me on this......The "real" Porsche crowd will not be coming to the Carlisle Import and Kit Car show.  Carlisle Productions can try advertising in the PCA publications, but if they get more than 2 people to come from this effort I'll be amazed.  Peter Venuti and I just attended an outstanding event in Saratoga Springs, NY with just the Boston area 356 club - not even the "core group", just a 'splinter group' of the New England PCA (with 181 members) - and we have at least another half-dozen club events coming up throughout the 2014 summer season, not including the East and West Coast Holiday meets, auto crosses and driver education meets.  The import and kit car show offers little that the "real" crowd can't get from web sites.

 

Carlisle's best bet would be to go after the VW crowd.  Replica speedster folks have much more in common with VW Beetle folks than the PCA.  Factory Five (the Cobra folks) get, maybe, 6 - 10 Cobras at Carlisle but get 20-30 Cobras just at the monthly cruise-in at Patriots Stadium in Massachusetts every month during the Summer.  What does that tell you?

 

Here's a photo of the Saratoga Springs Hotel (private) Porsche Parking area last weekend.  Can you spot the single replica in this two-photo group??  (Hint - it's Peter's, with a "High Bow" IM top)  No, Pearl was not there (still waiting for her engine re-install) but if you look closely you can spot my new Nissan Rogue, now named "Kelvinator" for obvious reasons.

 

 

Gordon,

 

I think you're missing the point with Ed.  He had a pretty successful year with the Import and Kit weekend - the showfield was full of imports and there was alot of diversity. They also offered alot to draw people such as live bands all weekend., seminars, etc. But he set a stretch goal for himself for 2015 and is trying to grow the event.  Rather than put his head in the sand and think he has it all figured out he's reaching out for advice.  I don't see anything wrong with that.  And if he is an import expert (I don't know if he is or not), my guess is he probably is not a kit car expert.  This year, if you took the Speedsters, Spyders and MG replicas off the showfield the kit car portion of the event was hurting so he's saying “Hey, what can we do?”. 

 

From the SOC standpoint, if the kit car end of this event isn't happening then what's to stop Carlisle from killing that portion of the event and making it an import only event?  Keep in mind, this is also the ONLY real venue in this country for the Speedster/Spyder manufacturers to show their wares.  If they stop selling then that goes in the toilet too and you can imagine where things go from there.

So we should do whatever we can to help grow the event.

 

Ed does try. For example, last year he personally delivered to our tent two large decorated sheetcakes for our 11^th year celebration. He also stops by every year to say hello and I get personal emails with updates from him during the year.

 

Regardiing the “real” Porsche crowd, I could care less if they drive their stuffy asses to Carlisle because the Pennsylvania PCA group publicizes that replicas are not allowed at their events. But they are imported cars, we like to look at them and it seems their presence would help with getting more cars on the showfield so I don't see any harm in soliciting them.

 

My reference to comments by “19652plus2" were around some of the thoughts about going somewhere else where Carlisle's offerings are not available. We could meet at a park or a restaurant or in the middle of a wheat field but all the other stuff at Carlisle makes this more of a weekend event without having to worry about providing all these things or dragging in what we would need.

 

Lastly, I agree the VW crowd is a potential target group, just need to know the best ways to contact and interest them.

Probably the best way to entice the VW guys would be to attend they're events. That would be up to you guys who live in that area. Most VW guys I know love everything to do with Porsche, real or replica. I don't think you would find VW guys who would be willing to travel from all the country, IMO of course...

What about a name change for the weekend?  They currently call it the "Import and Kit Nationals".  There has always been a negative connotation to "kit car", are there some ideas for a suggested title for the Carlisle event that would be better but still describe the event?      

I know what you mean Bruce.  The "Kit Car" designation  makes me cringe.  I had a "friend" refer to my car as a "Kit" yesterday at a car show.  I don't know if it's ignorance or just the refusal to accept that a car not built by a major manufacturer must be a kit.  I explained to him that my car was engineered and built from the ground up by a limited production manufacturer;  I'm not sure I made a dent.  To be sure, there are skilled craftsmen that can take a donor and a kit and produce wonderful results.  We know who they are, don't we?  

 

Perhaps "Import, Kit Car and Replicar" could be changed to something that doesn't grate on the nerves, something like custom built or hand-crafted.