Carrera style fanhousing for T1 ?

Remember someone made this some time ago with pics on his homepage ,
can`t find the page now can you help ?

Is this what you mean?

How about this?
www.spyderclub.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=6109

That's good looking Fred...
What or who did it?
Know what I mean?

I found it on the spyderclub forums, private venture. There are other pictures of the build process. If I understand correctly there are plans to make them for type 1s also, then maybe the type 4?

For a show-only car, I'd have one in a minute... It is such a great look with all the pedigree. BUT, we are driving old cars with new twists and I don't think I would forego the effectiveness of a DTM for appearances. Damn!

This Fan/Shroud kit was specifically designed for Type 1's. Functionally it cools very well. Got it from Thunder Ranch. It sits on top of my 2275cc motor and between twin 44 Webbers.

How are you measuring temps?? Where are your senders?

If you have gauges you would see that swapping to the later style Porsche upper pulley will gain you around 15% coooler heads and swapping to an 11 blade fan another 10-15%. Measure all 4 of your head temps at once and the results will astound you.

Dario was working on one 547 style system but now he is basically defunkt from what I have read.. Another fellow in Texas was doing the same and contacted me about testing and helping develop the system but I have not heard from him.

Chances are any 4 cam style shroud would be a huge project to create and make it work as effectively as the stock VW system- Stock is VERY hard to beat, much more difficult than any 911 system that I tackled.

The 547 engines I have worked with share absolutely no traits of the Type I or Type IV or even the 616 engine, the cooling fins are placed differently, spaced oddly and in odd places....

The huge misconception is that if it works on something like a 6 cylinder or something like a 547 that it has to rock- Those engines were designed for their cooling systems and vice versa.

There's nothing unusual about a 911-style fan shroud on a T1 engine, but, as you can see from the different examples shown in this thread, not all 911-style shrouds are the same. The larger diameter 11-blade fan makes quite a difference when it comes to cooling.

The kit cools well, head temperature is in normal range. and chose AGAINST an 11 bladed fan because robs 10-12 HP. I understand type 4 motors have more cooling problems and may therefore require an 11 bladed fan.

Chuck Franklin

The diofferences I saw between the 5 and 11 blade fan with a 1.15 :1 drive ratio was 15 degrees in head temps and about 8 degrees on the oil side of things, barely notable.

Up the drive ratio to 1.33:1 and the difference went up to 25 degrees on the heads and 15 on the oil as an average.

HP between the 5 and 11 blade fan was BETTER with the 11 blade than the 5 blade because Porsche changed to the 11 blade specifically due to the pitch of the 5 blade fan being too steep and sucking power.

These numbers stayed very consistenet between the 5 cooling systems that were tested o the same engine with no tuning.

Still none of them touched a stock cooling system offered by VW- it took me 8 months to ever surpass that with the DTM.

I have over 300 pages of data like this from almost two solid years of cooling system testing and its enough to blow your mind while you are working with it. Just because something works well on a six cylinder engine that it was designed specifically for- means nothing to your TI or TIV engine.

When someone puts some development into a 911 shroud we may see a good kit but the work is not easy not cheap and not fun to do.

The factory new best and plenty of people are letting looks slowly kill their engine with every rotation of the cooling fan.

Porsche introduced the 11 bladed fan when they started increasing the HP of their 6 cyl motors. The bigger motors also generated MORE HEAT a second reason, benefit, for the 11 blade fan being appropriate for PORSCHE engines.

Chuck

PS the Porsche 11 Blade fan has a 48 degree pitch, the 5 blade fan, on my Speedster, has a 40 degree pitch. As I stated earlier, it seems to work, my engine operates in the normal range even in 100 degree plus in AZ heat, and I'm therefore a happy, cool, camper.

Have you tried varying drive ratios? What upper pulley are you running?

Also how are you monitoring the temps that lead you to the conclusions? Instrumentation? If you are basing the temps only from your stock oil temp gauge and not measuring head temps you are not getting the full story- far from it.... Measure head temps, the oil temp gauge has it's place and thats not creating an entiire big picture of engine temperature as it is very easy to have frying heads and cool oil or the opposite all impacted by the climate, gearing, engine tune and finally by the cooling system and its design.

I am always eager to see what guys are finding with various combos to see if it jives with what I have seen in my tests.

The one thing that I have seen with the testing is that all the tests that were done in low humidity atmospheres always yielded better temps than those at higher humidity.While you may have 100+ ambient temps whats your humidity???

BUT remember that ambient temp and humidity effect the readings given by head temp gauges that are thermocouple based that are genarally calibrated at 76F. Generally every degree above 76F of ambient temp will show 1 degree cooler on the gauge...

FWIW- Porsche changed more than just the fan with the engine changes, they changed drive ratio with BOTH upper and lower pulleys.

OK Jake- you opened this door, so I'd like to step through it. You have probably run the most exhaustive tests on cooling shrouds and fans outside of the factories in Germany. You spent a lot of time and money gaining the information you have. But besides improving your DTM shrouds, this information hasn't done anybody any good.

About every three months, one of these threads pops up- somebody wants information on the 911 style shrouds. You hop on, and tell us what you've generally observed- but nobody can check the data, because it's never been published. I'm not doubting you, and I know you had an offer from an overseas VW mag to publish the results (which apparently fell through)- but it been what, two years, and nobody has seen anything yet.

I know you don't want to give away the information that cost you as much as this project did, but it would appear you aren't going to sell it either. In the absence of some sort of compensation, what are you gaining by not publishing it? This whole topic becomes "he says, she says" without data. Saying, "I've done testing, trust me" doesn't sell anything to somebody like me.

I'm building a 2110, and it needs a cooling system. I followed your tests from the beginning, both here and on the STF. I'm not purchasing a claim of superiority that can't be verified with data.

You are personally posting on this site for two reasons, one informational, and one commercial. It would seem that it would be in your own best interest (for both reasons) to just publish your data yourself. Being able to verify your claims of producing a superior cooling system would keep you from coming off as a salesman at a cocktail party, and would probably sell more DTM shrouds. I'm not inclined to just take somebody's word for it.

Prove it- you'll sell more DTMs. It will be better for you, and better for all of us.

Stan,

In the midlle of my testing as I made the posts to my forum about the days activities and progress reports I gained the attention of the guys from ultra VW magazine in the UK and they wanted a piece of the testing. The editor there agreed to do an entire series of articles on the shroud testing and I agreed NOT to post any of my data other than what was specific to my DTM until the article came out and had circulated around the world. They were willing to give me the space in the magazine and the least I could do was wait until the articles were finished. The article was NOT going to include my DTM because the overall goal was to show tests and not to advertise.

So fast forward..

After all the data was analyzed I wrote a very in depth 6 part article for TI tests and 8 parts for TIV engines and we are still awaiting the article to be included in the magazine. So much time elapsed at this point that I have done even more testing and have asked them not to introduce the articles until I can update them.

Now I have spent a tremendous amount of time and more money to build a 16 channel data logger to reside in the passenger seat area of my Blue beetle. I want to run all my in car tests again this summer and use the data logger to log the information so that it can be uploaded to the net in real time (you can download my entire 40 minute test drive if you want)

What this will do is show more of the data that I could not illustrate from real time driving experiences and back up the dyno data and other in car tests that I did previously but could not electronically log.

I have retained all the cooling systems used to do the testing and also have retained one of the test engines so it will not be hard to do this round of testing, especially with the data logger making things so easy to illustrate and so quick to log and store the files, unlike the old way we did the testing.

With all that said you can see the majority of my TI DTM developmental tests at www.aircooledtechnology.com/research.htm under the Type I DTM entry in the R&D library.

Also I will give the data to ANYONE not engaged i the selling of VW parts or other cooling systems as long as they will agree not to post the data to the net, or distribute it via any other means until after the Ultra VW test are finished. If you want this info email me at productdevelopment@aircooledtechnology.com and I will collect some tests for you. Please note that when I share these test with you they are not being shared for debate- if you want to see the results thats fine to gain your own interpretation of which system is best thats fine but it will not start a question and answer session or debate.

I am working very quickly to get the next round of testing ready to go because our hottest months are coming up and thats the time when I want to do the testing- its much faster to see the changes between systems. I will be adding pics of the entire data logging system to my site as soon as I have the vehicle modified and the logger, instruments and both laptops installed- these pics will be added to the R&D library soon.

This is not only expensive time consuming work, it is also hard work working with hot engines, making changes and doing it all over again. Gene Berg did his own testing back in the early 80s but never shared an ounce of that, not even in his books. I'm the only person that has EVER shared it so be patient and treat the data with the respect that it deserves, after all you get the opportunity to view it FREE OF CHARGE.

Don't forget that just making the webpages to show all this data and explanations is time consuming work and not fun.I am not charging for this data at this point (I may later when its all said and done in a mini-book" dedicated just to this) so it gets any spare time I may have dedicated to it and I don't have much spare time at all. Yes, I will accept volunteers that want to lend a hand with it so don't be shy.

I'd be interested in the data. I'll email you. "Knowledge is power", and in this instance, knowledge makes power.

I have not received the email... Try sending another to engines@aircooledtechnology.com my emails is sometimes funky.