"carrera VINTGAGE speedster" from Lake Country Motorsports

Hello All,

I am about to take the plunge, but even though I've owned 2 356's in the past, buying a replica is giving me some fear. This forum has been great, and I would love some advice on whether the "carrera" package is a good idea. I've been talking to Scott Schwab in Wisconsin who builds VS's for sale, and offers the carrera package with a 1915cc engine, adjustable suspension, badge package and uprated brakes. Anyone ever worked with Scott, or bought a Carrera repro? What kind of price is right to pay? Any advice would be great... there is an ebay listing at.
cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2477644954&category=6428

thanks y'all.

Alex,

Whatever you pay, it will be too much. Want a VS???? Go to VS. Want upgrades.... pick them after asking lots and lots of questions on this forum or p-mail with present owners. Make an informed choice and know what you are getting into.

Covered transport to the midwest is going to be way less than the big mark up on those WS and AZ cars. By the way..... VS builds them. I may sound a little gruff here, and I don't mean too.... but the only way to buy a new turn-key Speedster replica is to go through the builder: Henry at IM, John at JPS, Kirk at VS, & Corey of Beck.

If you want a C/or GT replica... buy a book, study what they had and more importantly,, did NOT have as far as badging, colors, bumpers, trim, etc. You'll find a great source for that info in at least a dozen current members of this forum. There is one being built by JPS now (a GT) and I am considering a build with IM. I would recommend VS to anyone... Kirk is a great and reliable guy, and my purchase was worth every penny. Your engine? Pick an engine builder that works for you and with the manufacturer. All three are comfortable with CB Performance, and I wouldn't hesitate to consider Jake Raby's Type IVs and Type Is. A 1915 can be a good engine, depending on the parts and the builder... but for nearly the same $$ I would go with a 2007 or 2110. Upgraded brakes is vague. Ask Qs around this forum about brakes or any part of your selection and you'll get some excellent advice...

I'm not telling you NOT to buy from the guy in WS. I'm just saying that you will spend too much, and that there is a lot more to a GT or Carrera replica than just a badge.

Jim
VS Owner, 3 Years, 23,000 miles, still pleased.

Dude,
Captialism abounds and I'm all for it, but when it comes to the questions you've asked, you are better off going to the manufacturer directly.

Do you know what a carrera speedster is supposed to look like? As mentioned in the previous post, there are books out there which have photos of the real deal...GB on this forum just had a real deal Carrera built by Intermeccanica, and it is the bomb even though a bit understated for my taste.(Well except for that horrendous fire extinguisher!size doesn't matter George!LOL)

I have tried to approximate a carrera GS with mine, so-so results, but far and away more accurate and less money that you are getting ready to spend with a reseller.

Front disks and rear drums are adequate for most of our cars. Some guys get nutted up over wide five bolt patterns and there is an air of authenticity to be had with them...eh?

I'll piss some guys off here, a 1915 is a lot like taking your sister to the prom. A well built 1776 will kick its ass and 2110 is just a gnats ass better and in my experience no challenge for my old 1776....once you eclipse 2165, then you have performance in the type1 arena. Look at spending $4-6K for a good engine. JPS does a generic 2110 for $3200.

You'll be doing yourself a favor by making a few phone calls and not going with the convenience plan
Medicine Man

Jim, how you feeling, get your butt plugged?

If Joe-Don-Billy-Ray-Jim-Bob is back at the keyboard AND talking about a new IM(!), I'm going to stop worrying about him.

And, as usual, he is absolutely correct on this question. There's a lot more to a Speedster Carrera GT (or GS/GT) than a couple of badges and a big price mark-up over VS's regular sticker.

Give me another month or two and I'll show you what a Carrera GT Replica should have and, more importantly, should NOT have.

Also check out Thunder Ranch for a very authentic carrera speedster package complete with fan shroud and 5 -6 louvered deck etc. depending on the year you want to replicate. They've done substantial research to insure authenticity i.e. what's right and NOT!

P.S. If you really wanna go all the way...throw in a 4 cam they are available... ONLY $75,000-90,000

Chuck,
Thunder Ranch doesn't display carrera speedster on their web page any other info you may have ?
Alan

Alan, Thunder Ranch has not yet updated their website to include Speedsters they are now making. Co-incidently their first Speedster will include what TR calls a Carrera package... less chrome, name plates etc, 5 louvered deck lid (6 starting in 58) rollbar, Rennsport mirror, 4 cam style fan and shroud, Sebring style exhaust.

Upper left page 24 Cole Scrogham's "356 Carrera" book shows picture of a 59 GT. The GT being built by TR for me is virtually identical to the 59'GT. I say virtually because a few features of 56'GTs were different from 59's.

I'll gladly post photos as soon as it's completed, in a week or 2!

Chuck,

I was under the impression that the 58 Speedster GTs had FIVE louvers-a-side and it was with the 1959 model year that the GTs went to SIX louvers a side.
I'm building a replica of a '58 GT right now and, like you, I've been doing a lot of research regarding the details. Fascinating to some...really boring to others.

To ALL who replied,

although I am much more unsure than I was when I first posted my question, at least I'm at least a little wiser, and that's worth a lot of $$$. Thanks, I'm going to be contacting thunder ranch as well as Kirk at VS directly... also had a guy email me a link to his car on ebay... an intermeccanica...

cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2477991652

Looks like I'll be delaying my purchase until I figure out whose advice to take... this seemed so much easier when I bought my original 356B cab and 356C... all i did was look for rust and a few other points... oh well. I'll be checking this post every day, thanks again for the help.

Alex.

Alex,

If not mistaken the red IM GT you posted the ebay link to belongs to Rich. That is one VERY FINE fine car.

John, I went back to my email to check what I wrote, Yes it was a typo, should have read 6 louvers starting in 1959. Thanks for being so observant. I've discovered the books on 356's can be confusing about historical facts and authenticity. Johan Wellens has been very helpful to me re 356 Carrera facts and answers to my ??'s.

I cannot wait til the 50th Anniv. "get together". According to Johan there should be several GT & GS in attendance. Being new to 356addiction I can't wait to feast my eyes on the "gems" aka real things! Hopefully the answers to ALL my 356 Carrera questions await me there. Now let's bore the membership with a chat about 356 Carrera GT & GS similarities and differences....Just kidding guys.

Also being new to this group I notice many of you are donating members. What do you donate, parts, blood, sweat, busted knuckles, or money. Would someone point me to the donation room?

Chuck Franklin

Chuck,
Click on "donating member" under the name on any post and you will get the info you need.

Some time back someone on this forum was going to break into his wife's knitting supplies and tie yarn all over the back of his car and have a pal film the yarn's movement with the speedster in motion... sort of a Sam Patch wind tunnel report.
Particularly interesting to those of us who have louvered decklids...

I'm not so certain the decklid louvres bring air (and subsequent cooling) in. It has been voiced that they actually create some fancy phrase for heat trap or something.

While I like the look of the louvres, and the authenticity they lend to the Carrera era, maybe underneath the lid they should be blocked or scooped or something? Afterall, we are replicating 50 year old technologies, but we all know a little better?
P.

Alex,
These gentlemen make valid points. One other thing to consider though is servicing of the vehicle. Being where you are I'm sure you won't want to send the car to Texas or California for servicing or warranty issues. You might want to find out what kind of warranty and service your local vendor offers. Just my thoughts.
Mike

Chuck, original Speedster Carreras didn't have any louvers; in 58 they got 5 and in 59 they got six. Many owners of earlier Carreras retro-fitted either of the louvered rear deck lids for improved cooling and carb intake air flow - see the photo of the restored red 356A Carrera in Dr. Thiriar's book.

Carrera trim varied for GS, GT, and GS/GT cars - some had side and bumper trim while others did not, and some cars were delivered with hubcaps while others weren't. The "plush" stock Carreras were the convertibles and coupes.

home.tiscali.be/johan-wellens/evolution.htm

This is your best reference for GT's. Johan knows his stuff.

George thanks for the email. Yes first Carreras had no louvers. My 356 replicates a 56' GT, therefore no louvers. However I've elected, just as you mentioned happened on real GT's, to retrofit the 58' 5 louver lid. So when I'm questioned on the authenticity I will definately need to explain why a louvered lid on a model that didn't originally include such an item, euu bouy!

Chuck

Hi Eric,

quick question... I live in Atlanta GA and am really interested in Rich's IM in the San Fran area. do you know him...? I have talked to him on the phone and he seems like a really nice honest person (don't we all though?) and since I'd be plunking down a big chunk of change for his car (it's not one of the cheaper ones) I'd like to go see it. Problem is plane tickets from here to San Fran are in 3-400 dollar range. Are you close by to him, can you give me more info. on the car. I would never spend money before seeing it in person, but if I add the plane ticket to the shipping I'm looking at an extra 2K... that's getting dangerously close to 30K for a car. Any ideas? thanks Eric

Alex,

Dale Bates is an acquaintance of Rich and lives fairly near him.
I have seen Rich's car on two occasions (shows). It is in pristine
condition. Although I have not driven it, I know Rich well enough
to say that however he represents the car is the truth. I know he's
currently up on Ebay with it, but it hasn't hit its reserve yet. It's a
beautiful car with many extra and special touches. I wouldn't
hesitate if it's what you want and can afford.

Hi John! We posted the same thought at the same time.

Jim

Alex.... that is one fine IM you are buying. Maybe you could check Dale Bates on this forum about the car...... Dale and Henry at IM probably know it better than most of us....

I was very interested in it too, but am not in the buyers mode due to some other issues right now.

Just some suggestions. Hope you get it.

Jim
OKC

I've seen the car and it's is very nice in fact its perfect!

Rich is extreamly honest in his representation of his car. It is perfect in every way. If I had the money right now to buy it, I would and then turn it around for about 30K. The milage on this car is very low, I dont know exactly but I would bet around 5500 last time I saw Rich. A new IM built like Rich's car would retail out around a lot more dollars. The price Rich is asking is not cheap, but it is a steal. You would be basiclly getting a new IM for a 1995 price! Do not hesitate. At Knott's, Henry asked if I had heard Rich was selling his car. Henry called it "perfect" and "eye candy". Feel free to contact me off line for more info or opinions if you'd like. Dale

Did Rich's car sell?

Dick, He may have sold it to someone on the conntinent. I dont think it is a done deal yet, so it may still be available.