Caster shims and steering box alignment

Loosen the bracket that hold it on the upper tube, rotate slightly so there's no binding when you turn the steering wheel. When you figure you've got it right- tighten the bracket back down.

ALB posted:

Loosen the bracket that hold it on the upper tube, rotate slightly so there's no binding when you turn the steering wheel. When you figure you've got it right- tighten the bracket back down.

 Thanks ALB

You're welcome. And you can call me Al (come on, you know the tune! ) Have you got a first name or are we to forever call you JB356SR? 

If you currently have no caster shims you will need 2 on each side to notice and real difference. You'll also need the longer bolts (2) for the bottom of the beam. I bought mine from Gene Berg. They were the only people who knew how many degrees a shim changed the caster. Seems like each shim was 2.5 degrees or so. After installing the shims I measured the caster and have just a tad over 6 degrees. 356's had 5 +- 30 minutes.  VW only had about 1 degree. You'll also need a camber commentator on the rear and sway bar on the front.

You'll want to carry a spare and tire changing tools. Battery up front. It makes a significant difference.

My car had the front sway bar and nothing else. It was a death trap. You'll be amazed at how much better it handles.

I am replacing my front beam. Is it necessary to grind/remove the steering box locating pins on the beam to get the steering column linkage straight? Also anybody else running two shims on each side? I currently have one on each side

 @sethsaccocio- Do you know what the caster is with 1 shim? Is the front lowered via the beam, lowered spindles or both?       

My apologies for contradicting you, Jim- VW caster spec for Beetle/Karmann Ghia is 3° 20' + or - 1° (orange Bentley book front axle chapter page 33). Jim is correct with the 356 caster figure- 5°, which makes them much more stable above legal highway speeds. I believe Gordon Nichols' car has 6° caster and claims that low speed/parking log steering isn't overly difficult.

I think anything close to 5° is enough (I guess unless you like going really, REALLY FAST!). The reason I asked how the front end was lowered- with lowered spindles the caster doesn't change appreciably, while lowering the car using the beam (adjusters, cutting/turning and then welding the center section(s) or pulling torsion leaves) takes away caster. Usually 2 shims are only needed when modifying the beam.

That said- do whatever you have to do to get close to 5° caster.  Al

PS- Seth- there should be locating pin locations on the beam for both Beetle and KG- try the Ghia location as it should be closer. I can't remember what I had to do with mine.

Another PS- I came into this hobby via the VW side, running a Cal Look Beetle I built some 40 years ago. I knew nothing about caster (or lack of it and it's effects) then and there were no dropped spindles then so the front end was lowered 4½ or 5" with a Select-a-drop and 135's. The back was lowered 1 spline and the front was almost in the weeds. The car darted so much at 50-60 mph it was (in retrospect) tiring to drive long distance and the 1 time I got it up to 100 mph it was downright scary - in that 30 seconds a side wind put the car half way into the next lane before I could react. Fortunately there was no one in the lane beside me and I was able to pull over, clean the seat off and never pulled that stunt again. I only read what Gene Berg had to say about caster shims shortly before I sold the car. They were the first to start making aftermarket caster shims- VW has had them since the very late '50's or early '60s'.

Whoever reads this- take the time to set your car up so it is safe!

I was looking at my front beam and I noticed 2 locating pins. I can’t move the steering box. Any other way to realign the steering assembly? 

thanks Al.  It was lowered with beam adjusters. I am putting on CB wide five discs with the 2 1/2" drop spindles. Not sure if I will need to lower using the beam adjusters yet. I have no idea what the caster was. Guess I'll start with one and go from there. How do you measure the angle? can I just use a digital angle gauge on the front beam before and after?  With regard to the locating pins, the old beam had them ground off so I will do the same to the new beam.

JB356SR posted:

I was looking at my front beam and I noticed 2 locating pins. I can’t move the steering box. Any other way to realign the steering assembly? 

You remove the U shape steering box clamp and turn it 180* this moves the box slightly up or down . Do not force the steering column up against the underside of the dash, if you have the column crush cage it can and will weaken over time and break.  ( BTW, mild resistance at the rag joint is ok) 

Those two locating pins are there to locate the steering box for two different car uses:

One angle suits the taller VW sedan (you don't want that one) and the other one suits a more laid-back Karman Ghia.  That one should be close to what you need, then follow Alan's tip for final placement.

My car is built on a '64 convertible pan. The specification for camber was 2 degrees +- 15 minutes. I don't think this changed until 1971 when the caster angle was 3 degrees 20 mnutes +- 1 degree.

I don't know anything about offset spindles. Mine are stock. As far as the stock camber is concerned I measured mine after leveling the frame and taking a measurement on the front beam with a steel straightedge on the face of the tubes. As I stated I had 1 degree and change. I used a magnetic angle finder...could easily be off a degree or more. After installing the shims I measured again...6 degrees.

Thanks everyone for all your tips and help. 

sounds good. thanks jim

sethsaccocio posted:

thanks Al.  It was lowered with beam adjusters. I am putting on CB wide five discs with the 2 1/2" drop spindles. Not sure if I will need to lower using the beam adjusters yet. I have no idea what the caster was. Guess I'll start with one and go from there. How do you measure the angle? can I just use a digital angle gauge on the front beam before and after?  With regard to the locating pins, the old beam had them ground off so I will do the same to the new beam.

Keep in mind, most drop spindles add width to the front end and most disc brake kits do the same. Therefore where as a disc brake kit adds 10 mm and spindles add 5 mm for a total of 15mm, your track width becomes 7.5 mm wider on each side.  Now tire tire clearance at fender lip is tight or touching. There are zero offset disc brake kits out there “CSP is an example”. when we do this on most cars we offer the option of a narrowed beam to offset the additional with

do your research before buy

Exactly Anthony. That's why I went with a 2" narrowed beam in my current Spyder. This allows the Airkewld 4 piston disc brake kit/Vintage 190 wheels to work with no rubbing. I figured about 3/4" per side wider, plus the 190 wheels end up 1/4" less backspace, making the sum total zero.

P.S.: The beam is welded into a Spyder frame so it's a permanent decision. I believe I have the only one made this way.

I went with a 2" narrowed beam as well. Hopefully 185/60/15 tires on 5 1/2" 190s will fit in the wheel well.

sethsaccocio posted:

thanks Al.  It was lowered with beam adjusters. I am putting on CB wide five discs with the 2 1/2" drop spindles. Not sure if I will need to lower using the beam adjusters yet. I have no idea what the caster was. Guess I'll start with one and go from there. How do you measure the angle? can I just use a digital angle gauge on the front beam before and after?  With regard to the locating pins, the old beam had them ground off so I will do the same to the new beam.

With beam adjusters, Seth, a Speedster lowered even just 2" wouldn't have much caster. With drop spindles you shouldn't have to lower the front much more with the adjusters, so I'd buy 2 sets of shims, start with 1 set and see how it goes. I was always under the impression that it wasn't something you could easily measure yourself and was done at alignment time, hence the reason for buying the 2nd pair of shims. At GBE they're only $10 a pair.- http://www.geneberg.com/advanc...2c93&x=8&y=7

Hope this helps. Al

Seth, I think you'll be OK. You might even require a small wheel spacer when you're done, but probably not. Your front end and wheels look great.

It's simple trigonometry to figure out the caster change per inch of front drop. I'll get back to you.

Anyway, to measure caster you need to know the angle from vertical that a line scribed through the ball joints vertically would be.

The way to measure caster is to take a camber reading at a certain number of degrees of steering lock left and right, the difference should be your caster. There are swiveling plates designed for this purpose, but enterprising lads can use two layers of plastic on the floor with water in between so they slide, and simple lines drawn on the floor.

OR put in a shim and try, and if you think you need a little more self-return to straight ahead, put in another shim.

Cheers.

Danny and Al. Thanks for the advice. Installed the beam yesterday with one shim. I'll just see how it drives. It will be a while though. Still a lot more to do. Now I get the whole Madness thing.