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ive seen thin sumps that have an actual hex drain plug so U dont have to mickey mouse all those small nuts that are prone to stripping.
am I closer than I think? Do I just…
1. clean it up
2. jam the oil filter on that tube
3. replace the gasket
4. Reattach the plate
5. Fill it up
??
or do I need to go deeper, and undo the next set of nuts?
Throw out the CB drawing. That's for the same extended sump, but with a cheesy filter (on the inlet, with no bypass - which is a really bad idea). What you see right there is exactly what you should have.
To answer your questions:
Don't remove the next set of nuts - that's what holds the sump on.
In your picture, I see the very bottom of an oil filter, mounted remotely over in your LR fenderwell just behind the tire. After you put the sump back together, just remove and replace the filter.
When you start the car, it'll take a few seconds for the oil filter to fill with oil, during which time you'll have no oil pressure. This is normal - just don't rev up the engine until the oil light goes off.
*This assumes you have a gasket. It's special from CB. If you don't have one (or the little copper washers for the little sump-plate bolts) you may be able to reuse what you've got, assuming you haven't torn the gasket in any way (you probably did). Check carefully when you are going through step 1. Find all the little copper washers - there is one for every bolt.
You have a WIX external oil filter - follow those 2 black rubber oil lines from the back of the engines cam driven oil pump. It most likely ends in the wheel well, above the axle, or near the transmission. There should be an old external filter there. The sump only adds extra oil capacity - it eliminates the screen oil filter but has no filter itself.
I had a very small billet lump where the normal oil drain was that had a small (ineffective) filter like the write-up you showed. It was more costly than an external filter and didn't filter much. Get a drain plate with a hex bolt for draining oil in the future - way too easy to over-tighten and strip those little acorn nuts/studs (tighten inch/lbs!)
Do yourself a favor and get one of these before you finish your oil change so you don't have to take off all 10 of those acorn nuts:
https://www2.cip1.com/jc-2108-0/
As Stan said, clean it up, put a new gasket on, put on 10 new copper washers, and lightly tighten the acorn nuts in a star patter or a pattern similar to how you would put a tire/rim back on your car so pressure is applied evenly in a circle. Find the filter in the left wheel well and change that. Put in four quarts of oil, start it, let it idle a bit, let it sit for 10-15 minutes, then check the oil level. Fill it so the oil level sits in the middle of the two has marks. But if you get that Mag-X plate you'll never have to remove the plate again. You'll just remove the large hex nut. I had one and it made oil changes super easy.......and much cleaner.
Everybody - the CB sump-plate is not the same size as the stock VW sump plate. It's bigger. No other sump plate or gaskets (besides parts from CB will work). The copper gaskets will work, not the sump-plate.
See how the plate is way bigger than the holes inside? It makes putting the extended sump on easier. It also means you need the proprietary gasket from CB.
I'd also check along the edge of the sump for a drain-plug. You'll notice a nub in the picture on the bottom edge of the side of the sump. That wasn't drilled and tapped on mine, but it's clearly for a drain-plug. I put one in mine right there, where it wouldn't get cleaned off every pothole.
@Stan Galat posted:Everybody - the CB sump-plate is not the same size as the stock VW sump plate. It's bigger. No other sump plate or gaskets (besides parts from CB will work). The copper gaskets will work, not the sump-plate.
See how the plate is way bigger than the holes inside? It makes putting the extended sump on easier. It also means you need the proprietary gasket from CB.
I'd also check along the edge of the sump for a drain-plug. You'll notice a nub in the picture on the bottom edge of the side of the sump. That wasn't drilled and tapped on mine, but it's clearly for a drain-plug. I put one in mine right there, where it wouldn't get cleaned off every pothole.
The Mag-X one I linked to is an 8 acorn nut sump plate cover which is designed for the extended sumps sold by CB and the other suppliers. A standard VW sump plate is only 6 acorn nuts. When I installed my CB Thinline sump plate I installed the Mag-X sump plate cover with he drain plug so I wouldn't have to open it up again.
@Stan Galat posted:I'd also check along the edge of the sump for a drain-plug. You'll notice a nub in the picture on the bottom edge of the side of the sump. That wasn't drilled and tapped on mine, but it's clearly for a drain-plug. I put one in mine right there, where it wouldn't get cleaned off every pothole.
That’s perfect for drilling and tapping for a Fumoto valve. I never dared put on on the bottom of a sump. I have them on all my other cars and I love them.
@Stan Galat posted:Throw out the CB drawing. That's for the same extended sump, but with a cheesy filter (on the inlet, with no bypass - which is a really bad idea). What you see right there is exactly what you should have.
To answer your questions:
- Yes
- No
- Yes*
- Yes
- Yes, but "full" before you run it for a minute or so (to fill up the oil filter) is going to be about a half-quart low after you do. That's actually not the end of the world. Lots of us run them a half-quart shy to keep the oil spray down.
Don't remove the next set of nuts - that's what holds the sump on.
In your picture, I see the very bottom of an oil filter, mounted remotely over in your LR fenderwell just behind the tire. After you put the sump back together, just remove and replace the filter.
When you start the car, it'll take a few seconds for the oil filter to fill with oil, during which time you'll have no oil pressure. This is normal - just don't rev up the engine until the oil light goes off.
*This assumes you have a gasket. It's special from CB. If you don't have one (or the little copper washers for the little sump-plate bolts) you may be able to reuse what you've got, assuming you haven't torn the gasket in any way (you probably did). Check carefully when you are going through step 1. Find all the little copper washers - there is one for every bolt.
Stan, you know I respect the heck out of you, but you're wrong here about the bypass.
In this instance(the OP) you are correct, he has full flow and hopefully a remote filter (that he found by now).
But the CB thinline sump with filter DOES have a bypass valve. You see that little machined thing between the mesh filter and the spring? That's got a steel ball and a spring in it for a bypass. I have one that I don't use(but did). I figured that the remote full flow was what I needed, so I installed an oil pickup extension like the OP has. No need to double filter.
An alternate approach to the filter used: I use the standard Wix 51515(NAPA 1515) for a couple reasons.
One, it has a finer media. The R filter only goes down to 60 microns, the regular one goes to 15 or less(can't remember the numbers).
Two, it's cheaper and more likely to be in stock at ANY NAPA(standard Ford V8).
Three, the flow rating on either one is WAY more than enough for our puny motors and tiny oil pumps(the filters are designed for V8s).
I've been using the regular one for 15 years instead of the "R" filter.
@Robert M posted:The Mag-X one I linked to is an 8 acorn nut sump plate cover which is designed for the extended sumps sold by CB and the other suppliers. A standard VW sump plate is only 6 acorn nuts. When I installed my CB Thinline sump plate I installed the Mag-X sump plate cover with he drain plug so I wouldn't have to open it up again.
My mistake, Robert. Great find!
You sir, are the man.
@Stan Galat posted:My mistake, Robert. Great find!
You sir, are the man.
My technical knowledge pales in comparison to most on here. I take a stab at the low hanging fruit. Even a blind squirrel can find a nut once in a while. Or, even a broken clock is right twice a day. As long as it’s not a digital clock. 🤪
As @DannyP kindly pointed out, I’m clearly wrong. I’m really striking out here
… in self defense, I was up all last night running down a short in the control circuit of a refrigeration rack (it took half the store out while they were closed). The toss was unbelievable - 48 ft of multi-deck meat, all in the dumpster. I got home at 5:15 AM, and have been kind of in a haze all day.
I didn’t check myself before posting, and it shows. Even if I’m “mostly right”, I’m still wrong. I hate that.
I’m still not a fan if filtering on the inlet side of the pump, but VW did it and I can see how someone might want to. I don’t and wouldn’t.
Regardless, he DOES have a remote filter (I see it in a picture), so the CB deal would be redundant. I also use the Wix 51515. The “R” is just more expensive and special order for nothing, really.
Whoa! Thanks for all the help!
1. oil change complete!
2. @Anthony provided a new gasket and oil. Not his first rodeo. Just mine.
3. Without your supervision, I’d still be lost. Thank you all so much.
I took it on a 20mi test drive, circling further as I grew more confident. No oil drops on the garage floor yet. But I sure spilled some dropping the plate.
I'd recommend the Mag-X plate. That thing is nice.
I didn't know about it back a few(ten?) years ago. I machined a flat area, then tapped and drilled my CB drain plate for a standard VW Golf/Jetta drain plug. It's a 14mm x 1.5 with an 8mm Allen head. It sits almost flush to the bottom, sticks out less than 1/8" with copper washer.
P.S.: the CB thinline sump where Stan put a drain plug. I think that is for a temp sensor.
You've gotten lots of great information here, Ryan! And I agree with Stan and Danny- don't let anyone talk you into using the Wix 51515R- as was mentioned, the R filters are designed for high rpm engines with larger bearing clearances (think racing engines that get torn down and checked frequently) and don't stop nearly small enough particles from circulating through a street engine. The 51515 will flow something like 8 or 9 gallons of oil per minute, which is more than enough for a VW Type 1 engine, even at a steady 7,000 rpm (a VW engine will flow less than 3 gallons of oil per minute at a steady 3500 rpm iIrc).
I can add 1 thing- if you fill up the filter before installing, the amount of time the engine runs before building oil pressure is shortened considerably- a good reason for it to be installed vertically. Al
Agreed, Al. I prefill the filter(the last bit to get it really full takes a WHILE due to the filter media SLOWLY soaking the oil in).
I also disconnect spark(coil 12v positive lead) and crank the engine until the light is out(or gauge shows pressure). Then reconnect, fire it up and idle for a minute or two or five. Then kill it and let the oil drain back down into the sump for ten minutes and do a final top off of the oil level.
A GREAT habit to get into is after a good, hard run, pull into the garage and then drain it while it's hot. Then let it drain overnight. Adjust the valves the next day when it's ICE cold. Then install a new filter and refill.
.
Ryan, I'm late to this thread, again.
As with anything about oil, you've gotten a whole bunch of response here — and most of it spot on (okay, sorry). So now, you're refilled and on your way.
But for next time, make life easier on yourself.
Tony installed the same thinline sump on my engine, but I bribed him with a five-pound bag of Philz coffee beans, so he went one step further. He drilled and tapped a threaded hole for a drain plug in the middle of the CB drain plate thusly:
He even used a special magic thread die that makes comical (or maybe it was 'conical') threads that require no gasket or washer or incantation of any kind. This photo was taken a thousand miles after my last oil change and Look Ma, no drips! You just snug down the plug (and only just snug!) and voila! The plug is an allen head bolt that is flush with the plate, so nothing to snap off when you go boonie bashing over rocks and tree stumps.
If nothing else, this plate will teach you what the 'CB' in CB Performance stands for as the lettering that must be ground flat before the hole is drilled reveals that mystery, too!
I can't speak for the Sage of Auburn (and who could?) but he might be able to procure one of these plates, perform the modification, and send one to you to swap in for your current plate the next time your oil needs changing. It would be the last time you had to deal with acorn nuts, fussy copper washers, and explaining to your wife why there is oil all over the garage floor.
Just a thought.
The Mag-X plate by Jay-Cee with "O" rings is the best oil leak fix since sliced bread !
Wait, we have to change the oil? What kind should I use 
@Michael Pickett posted:Wait, we have to change the oil? What kind should I use
Oil of Olay. Keeps your skin silky “smoove” (apologies to @Sacto Mitch).
.
There's really no need to ever change oil, Michael.
This is a myth invented by Big Oil to boost their profits.
You can probably run the same oil for 30,000 or 40,000 miles, by which time you'll need a new engine. But, since new engines always come with new oil, there's no need to ever change the oil.
Think of all the money the gullible waste every year on unnecessary oil changes.
.
You can go even more miles Sacto.....with a Frantz filter system and a couple rolls of toilet paper ! Too bad the toilet paper industry went to a larger center spool ! Anyone have one ? Maybe could be used to make a VW engine look more Porschy ?....Bruce
@aircooled posted:You can go even more miles Sacto.....with a Frantz filter system and a couple rolls of toilet paper ! Too bad the toilet paper industry went to a larger center spool ! Anyone have one ? Maybe could be used to make a VW engine look more Porschy ?....Bruce
Yeah, the toilet paper industry sold out and went metric on their center spools...
@Michael Pickett posted:Yeah, the toilet paper industry sold out and went metric on their center spools...
I hate that about them. Whenever you have an SAE TP holder, you get a metric roll and vice versa. Now, you need two TP holders for everything, and so just leave the roll on the tank.
Mr. Whipple is probably behind it - he always seemed like a pinko communist to me.
@aircooled posted:You can go even more miles Sacto.....with a Frantz filter system and a couple rolls of toilet paper ! Too bad the toilet paper industry went to a larger center spool ! Anyone have one ? Maybe could be used to make a VW engine look more Porschy ?....Bruce
My brother tells me he’s got a couple. I’ve been trying to talk him into digging one out of his horde. Not to use, just to have. He also professes to have a full Judson supercharger kit, but it’s for a Triumph Spitfire.
30-35 years ago he was a purchasing agent at Geneva Steel, after US Steel sold it to a a group of workers. They used the TP filters on some equipment that supposedly never had their oil changed. I can’t remember what it was, but it had some ungodly capacity like 500 gallons, and they never changed it. Just topped it up as needed, with 55 gal drums!
@Michael Pickett posted:Wait, we have to change the oil? What kind should I use
I hear Crisco is the hot ticket...
"3-in-1 or none" is my slogan.
.
OK, so maybe I'm the last to find out, but the Frantz did not go the way of the Edsel and the Dodo. They are still, well, afloat and you can still install one on your Hupmobile, your Lamborghini, or, I guess, your Speedster here:
It's probably a good thing they never really caught on, though. With all the other shortages crippling US and global commerce over the past few years, a final paralysis might have resulted because we ran out of toilet paper.
.
OK, I'm sold.
I'm worried about what brand of TP to use, though. Angel Soft is the biggest, but Mr. Whipple was all about the Charmin. Would Quilted Northern do a good job filtering my 3-in-1? And then there's the roll center controversy - metric or SAE?
Too many options.
Metric or SAE T.P. ? Depends on which of those you have for a butt !............Bruce
Sacto...Frantz did change with the advent of new T.P. spools. They even produced an adaptor to retrofit the old units to the new spool size. It was a long, uphill, loosing battle for Frantz to try for a market share of the oil filter industry. First blow came when most car mfg's started using spin-on cartridges. Second came from the spin-on cartridge mag's stating that external by-pass filters had more potential for leaks. The last was from the car mfg's claim that installing an external by-pass filter would void the warranty.
I was involved with a test of the Frantz filter for LA County Sheriff Dept back in the early 70's. The program was scrapped because the filter didn't do what Frantz claimed and certainly didn't save any money. I got a lot of flack from Frantz and one of the LA County Board of Supervisors who was totally sold on Frantz's claims. Getting heat from a LACO Board member out here is not fun. They have a lot of power. not unlike a Congressman. There are 5 members. each elected in their district. The Sheriff however, is elected by all five districts. That's what saved my bacon.........Bruce
@Stan Galat posted:OK, I'm sold.
I'm worried about what brand of TP to use, though. Angel Soft is the biggest, but Mr. Whipple was all about the Charmin. Would Quilted Northern do a good job filtering my 3-in-1? And then there's the roll center controversy - metric or SAE?
Too many options.
I think you gotta go with the Charmin. If it'll stop dingleberries on a bear, then it's certainly capable of keeping your engine well lubricated and moving smoothly. You'll always be ready to leave skid marks secure in the knowledge that your sump won't take a dump.
@Stan Galat posted:OK, I'm sold.
I'm worried about what brand of TP to use, though. Angel Soft is the biggest, but Mr. Whipple was all about the Charmin. Would Quilted Northern do a good job filtering my 3-in-1? And then there's the roll center controversy - metric or SAE?
Too many options.
You don’t want to use the fru-fru brands that are mostly fluff. (Air) You want to use those dense packed brands like Scott’s 1,000 sheet single ply.
@aircooled posted:Sacto...Frantz did change with the advent of new T.P. spools. They even produced an adaptor to retrofit the old units to the new spool size. It was a long, uphill, loosing battle for Frantz to try for a market share of the oil filter industry. First blow came when most car mfg's started using spin-on cartridges. Second came from the spin-on cartridge mag's stating that external by-pass filters had more potential for leaks. The last was from the car mfg's claim that installing an external by-pass filter would void the warranty.
I was involved with a test of the Frantz filter for LA County Sheriff Dept back in the early 70's. The program was scrapped because the filter didn't do what Frantz claimed and certainly didn't save any money. I got a lot of flack from Frantz and one of the LA County Board of Supervisors who was totally sold on Frantz's claims. Getting heat from a LACO Board member out here is not fun. They have a lot of power. not unlike a Congressman. There are 5 members. each elected in their district. The Sheriff however, is elected by all five districts. That's what saved my bacon.........Bruce
That’s interesting Bruce. There are a few guys on Bob's forum that swear by them. Obviously, they never did the testing you did.
“one of the LA County Board of Supervisors who was totally sold on Frantz's claims”
Chances are, it wasn’t the “claims” he was sold on.
I have ofter wondered what his motivation was. His interest seemed way stronger than what he claimed it was. Political interest for reasons of greed or ego can be devastating for everyone around. Including the perpetrator !............Bruce
