Cheap CHROME WHEELS

Serves you right for getting cheesy chrome wheels. Buy proper silver painted wheels and be done with it.

Is that maybe over spray - where they painted where the tire sits on the rim?  Try seeing if chrome polish or wax removes the black paint?.  I don't think any of the new chrome is much good.  You have to keep them waxed (and live in a non humid area). You can get plain steel wheels powder coated to a nice chrome-look silver (not as reflective though).

@WOLFGANG posted:

You can get plain steel wheels powder coated to a nice chrome-look silver (not as reflective though).

It’s even better, it looks like polished alloy.

While not a powder coat, House of Kolor “Kosmic Kroger” is what the painter used on my Monster tank to replicate the look of color over chrome of an original 60’s Scrambler.

Eastwoods sells an “Extreme Chrome” powder that considerably cheaper, but I have no FHE with it.

Buy some good aluminum ones and have them polished.

https://mobelwagen.com/product...campaign=sag_organic

Greg sells polished Vintage 190’s.

https://www.vintagemotorcarsin...ry/speedster/wheels/

@LeadPedal posted:

Buy some good aluminum ones and have them polished.

https://mobelwagen.com/product...campaign=sag_organic

These look like Vintage190 wheels to me.

I'd rather get them from the original source: Vintage Motorcars Inc. in California.

Either powdercoat silver or polished. I do believe a few black sets were made too, but easy enough to accomplish at a local powdercoat place.

I've no idea if you have 4 x 130mm OR 5 x 205mm bolt pattern due to the picture not showing it(nor did you specify), but the Vintage 190 aluminum wheels are available in both bolt patterns now. I've had mine for 5 years and the powdercoat finish is still perfect.

If you can't figure out if you have 4.5" or 5.5" width, take a wheel(better yet take one front and one rear to see if they're the same) to your local tire shop and have them measure it for you.

@JPC In the future, try maybe to be a little less poison-pill negative. Every time you post something it starts with what a raw deal you got from VZ AZ. Either sell the car and stop whining like a little beotch OR suck it up and just accept the facts and MAKE IT BETTER, without the negativity... WE ALL KNOW YOU HATE THEM, STOP BEATING THE DEAD HORSE.

It looks like chrome but it ain't.

It's paint.

The same wheels are on my Speedster with the same issue. You are likely washing the paint off when cleaning the wheels. It only seems to be a problem at the edge of the rim like in your photo.

I'm going with period correct stainless trim rings. These were used to dress up painted wheels but will look if well polished. About $100 a set.

Whatever you do, I wouldn't buy the cheap chrome wheels. Mangles from Brazil or the Chinese repops - it doesn't make any difference, they are all pretty terrible. The chrome is really thin and will start to rust/flake probably by the end of the first season.

If indeed your wheels aren't chrome, this is a very good thing. It means you won't need to try to strip the chrome to get to a solid steel surface to lay a shiny "chrome-like" finish on them. If they're just steel, any good power-coat shop can lay "near-chrome" powder on them, assuming that's the look you want. What you'll get will be very similar to what David has on his Ducati tank - a kind of polished nickel look, rather than miles deep, eye-popping chrome. It'll cost at least a couple of hundred bucks a wheel.

The thing is, you're wouldn't have gotten 1950s beautiful, deep chrome wheels no matter who built the car. Wheels and trim are only available from the places they are available - and crappy chrome on "chrome" rims are what is available, regardless of who built the car. It was bad at the turn of the millennium, it's worse now. Forget about getting them rechromed - the EPA doesn't like chrome-plating shops at all so the days of getting a bunch of stuff done for Dr. Clock's "Benjamen and a six-pack of Coors Light" tip are way, way, way in the rearview mirror. Assuming you could find a shop willing to take on your project, you would need a second mortgage to pay for getting 4 wheels redone.

I'm with everybody else here. The polished Vintage 190s are as good as it's gonna' get.

His look to be stock VW 4 bolt - and not wide 5.

The wheels are a challenge so choose an alloy wheel or have them stripped and powder coated because you cannot get any better than any metal wheel on any modern car using hub caps.  Those are just facts of life.

It reminds me of the mirrors, the rubber gaskets the windshield frame, the door handles the hinges, the engine lid grill and all the idiosyncratic areas of a mix of 59 year old technology, made in plastic with lipstick on it.... need I say any more?  

Sorry to burst someones bubble, but managing expectations is a challenge !

@JPC- If you're going to replace them, take everybody's advice and put the Vintage 190's on your car- they're light, not outrageously priced, if you want shiny they can come polished (or silver powdercoated if you prefer), come in a 4½ and 5½" widths, and did I mention they are light?

What Danny said- we all know you got a bit of a lousy deal from the guy in Arizona- accept it and move on.

And- "They ask if they are 4 inch or 5 inch wheels. Jbugg says just look on the back the wheel and I’ll say 4 I cannot find it. If I tell him the tire size can’t they figure that out"

Now you're just being lazy, and it's time to do something for yourself- have you taken a wheel off to actually look closely at the backside?  Or, again what Danny said- take it to a tire store, or here's an idea- instead of whining, how about posting a pic where we can see how far in the edge of the rim sits in relation to the tire sidewall, along with the tire size? If you give us the right pic we may be able to tell.  Considering where they came from, my money's on 4½'s...

I know some of this isn't what you want to hear, but it's time to put just a wee bit of effort into it.  Really.

My old Mangels had size stamped on rim - but you had to remove tire to see it. Lane had right idea paint them red to match the car.

I really, really wish the 5.5" 4 x 130 wheels were available with a 5" backspace so I could put them on the back of my car.

@Michael McKelvey posted:

I really, really wish the 5.5" 4 x 130 wheels were available with a 5" backspace so I could put them on the back of my car.

There's gotta be some place near you that can cut loose and re-position the centers, Michael.  Which wheels do you have on your Speedster?  I take it they're 4½'s?  What backspacing do the 5½'s come with?

Well anything çan be done Michael.

You just need to find a place that does it and have a few wheels stretched To your specs then get them all powder coated  or  finished to your liking . i am sure  Carry ça ne get it done for you as a side project.

@ALB, I have 5 1/2" chromed steel wheels, I think Mangel, from about 3 decades ago.

Most 5 1/2" steel wheels, when compared to 4 1/2", have the additional inch on the outside.  This won't work with an IRS CMC.

My wheels have the additional inch on the inside resulting in about 5" backspace.  I got them from the Beck folks, also about 3 decades ago.  I think, at the time, they used them on Spyders.

The 5 1/2" 4 x 130 Vintage aluminum wheels have a 4" backspace.

I really like the aluminum wheels but don't think I want them enough to pay to have them modified.

Well I had 8 inch 15 inch Mangels 4 bolt on the rear of my old IM, so they had them maybe somebody wants to sell some.

Beck Spyders use LONG rear axles, and require more backspacing. Get in touch with them, I know they use 5.5" rear wheels.

@DannyP, are you suggesting I get in touch with Beck about steel wheels? I already have steel wheels from them as described above.

Or, are you suggesting I get in touch with them about aluminum wheels?

@Michael McKelvey posted:

The 5 1/2" 4 x 130 Vintage aluminum wheels have a 4" backspace.

I really like the aluminum wheels but don't think I want them enough to pay to have them modified.

I understand it wouldn't be an inexpensive modification, but that would be sooo very cool though!!!  5½'s with wider tires on the back- just think...

Just to add some confirmation @Michael McKelvey and @ALB along with some clarification for @JPC I just popped into the garage, removed the back wheel (IRS transmission) and took some measurements.  I've never considered wheel measurements before and 30 mins ago didn't know what backset, offset, etc was. Google can be quite helpful!

Anywho, here's the measurements of my Mangels 5.5Jx15 chrome wide-5 wheel. I'd imagine this is a 'standard' chrome/steel wheel and seems to confirm your estimated backspacing.

Who knew the measurements related to the tyre and not the wheel! Everyone except me I'm guessing.......

@DW - You've been a member of this site for less than a year, but what you have provided here is ridiculously helpful for anybody searching down the road.

I want to say how much I appreciate your input. Well done, sir.

Very well done!

Thank you @Stan Galat, I feel very humbled by your kind words which are very much appreciated.  Hopefully I can be of some use around here!  Measuring up those wheels got me thinking about a set of technomagnesio (is that overkill?!) but it'll depend on what fits over the brakes I've ordered.

@Michael McKelvey posted:

@DannyP, are you suggesting I get in touch with Beck about steel wheels? I already have steel wheels from them as described above.

Or, are you suggesting I get in touch with them about aluminum wheels?

Honestly, I skimmed your post. I AM suggesting you have the centers moved to give the max backspacing.

I have two 4.5" wide5 Mangels. Greg had the centers moved out some(don't know exact amount) for my CSP brakes. I cut them and moved them a further 3/8" to get the tires under the fenders when I got my Airkewld brakes, which are even wider. They are maxed out for backspace. Unfortunately, one of them got bent and split the edge of the rim, so they are now reduced to winter storage wheels.

I'm sure the 5.5" could have the centers moved at least an inch from the 4" or so they are now.

@DW posted:

Thank you @Stan Galat, I feel very humbled by your kind words which are very much appreciated.  Hopefully I can be of some use around here!  Measuring up those wheels got me thinking about a set of technomagnesio (is that overkill?!) but it'll depend on what fits over the brakes I've ordered.

You're talking to 1 of the few guys who doesn't think Tecnomagnesio wheels  are overkill.     And I would think Stan has a pretty good idea of what brakes will fit under them.   

Don't get me wrong, they are a very cool wheel (if there had been options like the Tecno's and Vintage 190's wheels 5x 205 disc brakes when I first started this journey...), but looking them up I was surprised to see they're pretty close in weight to the Vintage 190.  I've always thought, being magnesium, they were lighter.

My wheels are not Technos, @ALB - they are Coddingtons, commissioned by Alex Bivens back around the turn of the millennium. Because each set of wheels was custom, backspace could be specified. As such, I have 6" rims, which allows 195/60s to fit very well. There's no extra room.

I don't think there's any problem with any of the wheels we've got fitting any brake package we've got, if the question is whether or not they'll clear the calipers. The problem (of course) is in fitting 5-1/2" wheels under the rear fenders of a non-flared car with IRS.

As you know, a standard IRS car has a wider rear track than a short-axle swing set-up. Getting 5-1/2" wheels under a non-flared IRS car is tough. Either the wheels need to be re-centered, or the trailing arms need to be narrowed. Either is an expensive proposition. There used to be places that recentered steel wheels, but I'm not aware of anybody that will do it for alloy wheels. I would think it would be much cheaper to buy a set of 4-1/2"s and just get them widened to the inside.

As for the Technomagnesio wheels, they're undeniably cool, but I don't think they're magnesium any more. Once the Bivens run of wheels was done, Technos were the only game in town before Greg had the Vintage 190s done. Now that those wheels are out there, it makes both the Technos and my wheels just very expensive anachronisms.

Greg's wheels really did change the hobby. The only reason not to run them is if you have a standard body and an IRS rear end, and you want something wider than 4-1/2" wheels (and you really do, unless you have a <2L engine or you just want to "cruise").

As an aside, I don't know why builders who lay up their own bodies don't modify the molds to accommodate IRS and 5-1/2" wheels. It would just be a matter of pie-cutting a standard rear-end and then splashing a new mold. I know there is time and money involved, but we live in an age of a >$50K base build.

Living with a body that was too narrow was understandable when a new Kirk Duncan VS was $25K, but the standard has to be brought up when the car costs 2x the price from 10 years ago.

Time marches on.

Here's a diagram that adds in ET or offset from rim center mounting surface.  In DW's drawing ET is 50 mm -- so ET50 (about 2" or 1.97").  ET is often stamped into the rim.  Tire height (profile - like 70) and width like 205 also come into play as to whether the tie will rub. The 914 Mahle/Pedrini/Fuchs alloys have an ET of 40 mm (ET40).

Thanks for the clarification, Stan.  And I agree with everything you said above- especially Greg's Vintage 190 wheels changing the the game and I also don't get why nobody offers a Speedster body already pie cut in the rear- that would make things easier for so many enthusiasts.  I also would love to see Greg do some 5½'s with the inch to the inside- I think there'd be a market here and in the VW world as well.  Well, gotta go meet my brother and paint an ensuite (I really do hate being self employed!).  Everybody have a great day! 

@DannyP, you seem to be suggesting that I have my steel wheels modified.  My steel wheels are fine and have the backspace I need.

It is the Vintage aluminum wheels that would have to be modified to fit my car.

@Stan Galat posted:

As an aside, I don't know why builders who lay up their own bodies don't modify the molds to accommodate IRS and 5-1/2" wheels. It would just be a matter of pie-cutting a standard rear-end and then splashing a new mold. I know there is time and money involved, but we live in an age of a >$50K base build.

Living with a body that was too narrow was understandable when a new Kirk Duncan VS was $25K, but the standard has to be brought up when the car costs 2x the price from 10 years ago.

Time marches on.

Your not the only one who has thought about the body being modernized Stan but the builder for some reason does not always value moving the product forward  for whatever reasons.

Wider rear  body for IRS with hub centric hubs for me is a no brainer. It would allow you to get proper balancing of the rear wheels and to get larger appropriate rims tires and brakes.

Beck does the pie cut and widening on the Super Coupe body, widening it by 2".  I have 195/60s on my car with the rear wheels modified for a deeper dish.  If you kept the dish I have and the original backspace you could probably run wire 1"-2" wider in the rear.  I may do just that if I ever replace the wheels I have with alloys.

It wouldn't surprise me if @chines1 isn't doing the same thing on the rear of the Speedster now that they have the new chassis in production.  Carey, is the pie cut available on the Speedster?

@Lane Anderson posted:

Beck does the pie cut and widening on the Super Coupe body, widening it by 2".  I have 195/60s on my car with the rear wheels modified for a deeper dish.  If you kept the dish I have and the original backspace you could probably run wire 1"-2" wider in the rear.  I may do just that if I ever replace the wheels I have with alloys.

It wouldn't surprise me if @chines1 isn't doing the same thing on the rear of the Speedster now that they have the new chassis in production.  Carey, is the pie cut available on the Speedster?

Yes Carey.  Inquiring minds, particularly those on the waiting list who are building a massive 2.65L Type 4, want to know.

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@Stan Galat posted:

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...I don't know why builders who lay up their own bodies don't modify the molds to accommodate IRS and 5-1/2" wheels. It would just be a matter of pie-cutting a standard rear-end and then splashing a new mold. I know there is time and money involved, but we live in an age of a >$50K base build...

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Playing advocate for Mr. Beelzebub, here.

If I were a small shop struggling to keep up with orders (and losing the battle), with delivery times slipping two years into the future and up to my Bendpak in alligators, I'd think now wouldn't be the best time to be developing and prototyping new products. (There would probably be no 'Super Coupes' if development hadn't begun long before The Troubles started.)

If anything, what I'd seek is a more streamlined workflow, not diversification, seeing as most folks are happy enough with the current product to be ordering it just as it is.

Too, a lot of customers want these cars because they look just like the originals - the closer the better. Some folks even eschew those hooligan 185/65 tires for skinny 165/80s just because that's what were run in the day.

If you're talking small changes for improved performance, accommodating 16- or 17-inch wheels would make sense, too, if only for the wider choice of modern rubber.

If the replica industry survives (it seems pretty healthy just now) and prospers, more options seem likely in the future. Now, maybe not.

And hovering over all of this is the grim fact that no man's life, liberty, or non-compliant clown car are safe while the legislature is in session. With the chance of your current product being regulated out of existence altogether more a possibility each day, I can understand reluctance to throw time and money at new variations.

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@Stan Galat posted:

As an aside, I don't know why builders who lay up their own bodies don't modify the molds to accommodate IRS and 5-1/2" wheels. It would just be a matter of pie-cutting a standard rear-end and then splashing a new mold. I know there is time and money involved, but we live in an age of a >$50K base build.

Living with a body that was too narrow was understandable when a new Kirk Duncan VS was $25K, but the standard has to be brought up when the car costs 2x the price from 10 years ago.

Time marches on.

The Spyder body also needs a cure to some of it's inconsistences. A subtle flare here and a little widening there wouldn't be bad either.

I could see a boutique shell company (get it) in flyover country deciding to just make two or three things and becoming the go-to source for speedsters, spyders and coupes with a few non-original dimensions that cure the bulk of replica problems.

I'd bet vendors would appreciate the option for discriminating customers and DIY'ers.

Of course, the owner would need to know how to run a business and to have plenty of space.

You know @Sacto Mitch, I agree with almost all of that. I've noticed that the cars that bring the big money on BaT are the ones that hew most closely to the ethos of the original. John Q. Public seems to want a "replica", rather than a "baby 911".

Still... there's a market for the hardcases that want a better driving, better performing car, that I think there's definitely a market for a wider rear end.

I've owned and operated a small business for the majority of my adult life, and I can tell you with near 100% certainty that there's never a good time to make a change in process or product. When a small business has time, there's no money... and when there's money, there's no time. If you wait for a time when there's both, nothing ever changes.

Regarding simplifying production - I've thought a lot about this, and haven't landed anywhere. I often wonder if the popularity of these cars is enhanced by the infinitely variable option sheet, or if it just adds a layer of complexity that adds more cost than benefit.

I wonder how much of a market there would be for a "Model T" replica ("It is what it is. Pick any color as long as it's ivory, red, black, or silver, and any color interior as long as it's black or tan"), rather than the bespoke coach-built infinitely variable model we all seem to expect.

@IaM-Ray posted:

Wider rear  body for IRS with hub centric hubs for me is a no brainer. It would allow you to get proper balancing of the rear wheels and to get larger appropriate rims tires and brakes.

Since you have a 911 rear end, you already HAVE hub-centric hubs, no? I have zero problems with balance on my non-hub-centric wide5s. I did balance them myself though. A lot of shops don't possess the skill(or care) to get them perfect.